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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 11 Oct 2008, 23:20
by Randyman
Rick Farris wrote:I also remember Renato Garcia. We were the same age and he turned pro at 18, like me. He was handled by Willie Ketcham, and I recall my last trainer Mel Epstein used to like Garcia and his work ethic. Mel would look over at Garcia, and then look at me and only Randy could imagine the look he had on his face as he barked at me, "Look at that Renato Garcia, I like that kid. He has a fighter's haircut. Not like somebody I know . . ."

-Rick
Rick, you always nail it with Mel, he always used that exact line with me. Always intended to drive guilt and a little shame into your heart. I always liked to wear my hair a little long back then. Mel hated it. Go back a few pages. I posted a photo from 1973. That was how I liked my hear. Mel volunteered to cut it several times. As you can imagine, I declined. He sent me downstairs several times to get my hair cut. Mel was a character. Runyonesque.[/quote]



Randy, here was a Mel Epstein point-of-view, regarding the state of the country, etc. . . .

"That Ed Sullivan destroyed the country. He brought those Goddamn Beatles over here, with their long dirty hair and bare feet. Those bastards walk around barefoot in the hot sun on asphault and that's where the "screw worms" live. They just lay between the gravel and when a bare foot walks over them, they turn into little screw shapes and drill right up into the foot, and then they eventually screw all the way up to the brain and the drug addict bastards go totally insane. If I ever run into that Ed Sullivan, I'm going to punch him right in the face!", Mel would bark.

True story. Randy, did Mel ever mention "screw worms"? Or, it was more like, "Screw Woims" when Mel shared the story. A lot will be revealed about Mel Epstein the night we visit at the banquet. John Bardelli will pick up his dad's posthumous WBHOF award, so I have a feeling that the posthumous spirits of Mel and Firp will be present. In a sense, when you think about Mel and Guido Bardelli, this night means something, and Randy, they are a part of us. For me, this means something because it not only recognizes Young Firpo, but Mel Epstein. Mel had a lot of anger, and it cost his friendship with Young Firpo in latter years. However, it was thru Mel I learned about Dempsey, Kearns, Mickey Walker, of course Young Firpo, John Henry Lewis, Leo Lomski, Tiger Jack Fox, Wesly Ketchell, Maxie Rosenbloom, Jimmy MacLarnin, Dave Shade, Jock Malone, Benny Leonard, and many others.

These "stories" weren't so much about statistical facts, as they were the feeling and nature of the era. Who was who, and what were they really doing. Not always compelling information, often just a "day in the life" thing. Mel could somehow take me right into another era. I had an open mind, and I knew when his heart was speaking and when his pride and prejudice would contradict reality. However, Mel was usually pretty right on. He taught little variations of punches that really worked. Dumb little things that 90% of the time would trick an opponent, and leave him vulnerable to a blow they never saw coming. They worked! I should have studied harder under Mr. Epstein.

By the way Randy, did Mel teach you the "inverted jab"? Did he tell you about Dave Shade's "educated left hand", and while holding his hands up he does a little move and he digs his boney old knuckles right between your ribs. He fakes you out. I remember he did that to Mike Nixon once, and Mike was so pissed he took a swing at 71-year-old Mel. The old man slid to the side and the punch missed him by six inches. Nixon came to his senses and cooled down. I understand how Nixon felt. This is what he would do when I had a hangover, too wake me up.

As you said, he was quite a charactor. An original, for sure!

-Rick[/quote]


I called up Mel the night Elvis Presly died. I said "Mel, did you hear about Elvis. he died today?" Without so much as a pause he just said "Good!". I was shocked. I have always been a fan of Elvis and felt bad about his death. I said "Mel, are you joking? Why would you say that?" It pissed me off. He then says to me "That f**king bastard is the reason this country is going to hell. He should have died sooner. If only the Beatles would die too. The bastards!" Or as he would pronounce it "bastids". So I know exactly what you are talking about.

I have always called Mel my link to another time. He knew all the guys that are now part of boxing history.

As you recall, Mel's jab was a little different and very effective but awkward at first. Turned a little more to the side and extended out more than normal.

He did the fake with me too. never bugged me though. kept me on my toes. Sometimes he would bring his knuckles right up to my chin, hard. The way he saw it was: if you don't want to get hit, move, block, anything, just don't stand there like a dummy. I do remember the inverted right hand to the heart. Again, awkward but once you learned it, it came easy. He was full of old time tricks.

Mel could talk. I enjoyed listening. I can't recall how mel felt about Ed Sullivan but I remember he never missed a Lawrence Welk show. He was completely taken by the "beautiful Mexican girl" that was on the show. A singer. I don't know if she was actually Mexican or not but Mel couldn't stop talking about her. That was unusual considering how he felt about women. He always insisted that I watch the show. At that time, at that age? Lawrence Welk? Nosirree Bub! Funny thing is, now I enjoy watching Welk on the PBS stations. I think of Mel every time.

Screw worms? I can't recall. Of course, Mel would get on a kick with something and stick with it for a while, then move on.

Anyone reading this has to wonder why we loved the old rascal the way we do. There was so much more to Mel. A man out of his time. I think that was the underlying reason for his anger. he didn't understand the modern age. he was from another age. The older I get. The more I understand that fact, and the less I understand this generation. The Bastids!

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 11 Oct 2008, 23:24
by Randyman
raylawpc wrote:
Randyman wrote:To my father's way of thinking, it was the jab. Everything worked off the jab.
He was right! :TU: :TU:
Thanks Tom, that would make him happy. Two things about my father. He really believed in his knowledge on boxing, and he loved being right. I thank you for him.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 11 Oct 2008, 23:57
by Randyman
About the word "Bastid". When I first started training with Mel, he had a speed bag but no swivel. He had to keep borrowing a bag from someone. I had a swivel at home so i told Mel I would bring it in so he wouldn't have to borrow from anyone. He said okay so I did.

When it came time to hit the bag Mel started to screw the swivel in. It wouldn't go in right and Mel was starting to get impatient, as only he could. Finally, he looks at me and says "This is a bastid swivel" I thought "bastid?" What's a bastid? So I said "what?" Thinking I heard wrong. What's a bastid Mel?" he looks at me as if I was an idiot. He says "A bastid!". Again I said "What's a bastid? You don't know what a f**king bastid is? His eyes going back and forth in exasperation and despair. I was starting to feel stupid, not knowing what a bastid was. Again, a little irritated with him now but still feeling stupid I said "I never heard of it before". Astonished he said "You never heard of a bastid? Where did you grow up, under a rock" A bastid, a motherless child!!" Then the light bulb goes on. Oh, you mean a bastard?" Again looking at me like I was Gomer Pyle "That's what I said "bastid!". I decided right then and there to let it go. After that I learned to pay attention to his speaking idiosyncrasies. He never said Champion either, he said Champeen.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 00:40
by Rick Farris
I think you'll like this . . .

One of the best boxing writers I know is Joe Rein. Joe has been Editor/founder of a number of on-line boxing cites, and shares his past boxing experiences, as a young man in N.Y. As well as contemporary pieces. Like myself, Joe has been involved in the film industry for years, however, much longer. Joe was a top producer in the commercial production world and we discovered we'd both worked with many of the same people over the years. Joe has some great boxing stories, but this is one he shared with me regarding a commercial shoot he did in the sixties. You'll love it!
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



I have as many film stories as fight stories, Rick, and it's nice to know you are in the business, so you can appreciate them.

Just talking about director's who were assholes brought this story to mind. I think you'll get a kick out of it.


It was the late 60's, and I came out to California to shoot a large commercial package at the EUE/Screen Gems backlot in Burbank.

The director was a scrunched-up little guy with a goatee. He looked like a disgruntled garden gnome. "Grumpy" from "The Seven Dwarfs" comes to mind.

Anyway, he's one of these guys that whatever you've done, he's done something better. You went to the moon . . . he went to Jupitor. Just a major pain-in-the-ass . . . so I decided to fix his wagon, and let the crew in on it.

To give you some idea how long ago this was, Farrah Fawcett was an Extra. And I saw him look at her, so I went over to him: ""You want her, Bill?" "You know her?", he asked. I said, "No problem, I'll fix it."

So, I walked all the way over on the other side of the stage and asked if she was a member of Screen Actors Guild. she nodded, "Yes." Then I asked her if she had any commercials running? Again, she nodded, "yes." So I turned to him and gave him a big OK sign with my hand.

When I went back over to him, I told him to, "get rid of your wife tonight, and your girlfriend (who was also staying at the Beverly Hills Hotel) and be in your room naked at 10pm and she'll be there."

After we wrapped for the day, I went and got a good friend, who was a receptionist for Jay Sebring, the hairstylist that was murdered with Sharon Tate. I told her to call the director at 10 and say her husband was coming home and she couldn't make it tonight. Because he had no idea what Farrah sounded like.

At 10, she calls . . . and was better than my wildest dreams. She gets on with this sexy, husky voice and says she can't make it because her husband is coming home, but she wants to jump on the director's head, sit on his face . . . do everything you can possibly imagine. Can she postpone until tomorrow night?

So, the next day, I ask him, "How'd it go?" "Some confusion . . . but we'll meet tonight," he said. So, all day, whenever he's near her, he gives her a big wink, or a leer, and she's oblivious to everything.

Finally, they have to change film, and he sidles up to her and whispers in her ear, and she leaps backwards, like she found a turd in her lunch. "WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?" He stood there without turning to face us, because he knew he had been had. When he finally turned around, steam coming out of his ears, the crew was all over the place, laughing.

For the rest of the shoot, he never again acted like he had a stick up his ass . . . and he also never spoke to me again . . . ever.



-Rick Farris (Story courtesy of Joe Rein)

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 00:48
by Bobbin & Weavin
kikibalt wrote:Randy, post as many photos of family and friends as you want, that whats nice about this thread, thats its not just about boxing, but also about real and everyday life, now I want to see a pic. of Bennie and Tom.... :)
Yeah Randy and everyone I agree with Frank, I would love to see what the rest of you and your families look like, I feel like I know you guys and we all have so much in common we would just be getting to know each other a little better. I would like to see pictures of you guys when you were young and in your prime and now (in your older prime). I showed my 16 year old the beautiful wedding picture you posted and she stood there and really looked at it hard and commented on how beautiful a picture it was; I however am not going to show her the pictures of your son, way too good looking and she's got school to focus on. :shame:
Bruce

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 01:04
by Bobbin & Weavin
kikibalt wrote:Image
Photograph by Ben Olender and Larry Sharkey
Los Angeles Times

Rams coach Sid Gillman with a "triple threat punch" of Jon Arnett, Ollie Matson and Tom Wilson, July 25, 1959.
My father went to high school with Ollie Matson at Washington High in San Francisco, said Matson ran all over the league and only made all-league on defense, might have had something to do with the color of his skin. I recently saw a list ranking the top high school running back in California history and Ollie was ranked second all time behind a certain other running back from San Francisco whole name is no longer worth bringing up. :evil:
Bobbin & Weavin

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 01:12
by Rick Farris
Randyman wrote:About the word "Bastid". When I first started training with Mel, he had a speed bag but no swivel. He had to keep borrowing a bag from someone. I had a swivel at home so i told Mel I would bring it in so he wouldn't have to borrow from anyone. He said okay so I did.

When it came time to hit the bag Mel started to screw the swivel in. It wouldn't go in right and Mel was starting to get impatient, as only he could. Finally, he looks at me and says "This is a bastid swivel" I thought "bastid?" What's a bastid? So I said "what?" Thinking I heard wrong. What's a bastid Mel?" he looks at me as if I was an idiot. He says "A bastid!". Again I said "What's a bastid? You don't know what a f**king bastid is? His eyes going back and forth in exasperation and despair. I was starting to feel stupid, not knowing what a bastid was. Again, a little irritated with him now but still feeling stupid I said "I never heard of it before". Astonished he said "You never heard of a bastid? Where did you grow up, under a rock" A bastid, a motherless child!!" Then the light bulb goes on. Oh, you mean a bastard?" Again looking at me like I was Gomer Pyle "That's what I said "bastid!". I decided right then and there to let it go. After that I learned to pay attention to his speaking idiosyncrasies. He never said Champion either, he said Champeen.
You have no idea how hard I am laughing. I mean it, Randy. I can see Mel as you tell the story, that's what is so funny, kinda like a hologram. "Bastid!", Of course. I gotta tell you a story that took place when I brought Mel home to watch the Duran-Lampkin fight. I'll save it for later, but he was at his "best" that night. He was irritated about something and began turning to the side and speaking to his invisable friend. Having a complete conversation with gestures and all. I brought Mel into a place to watch the fight with a few guys in their 20's and one had an ear ring and Mel looked at him like he was a terrorist. "There's something wrong with that one," Mel pointed out. You know, he was probably right. I say that a lot today.

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 05:35
by bennie
Rick Farris wrote:
bennie wrote:
Randyman wrote:Just curious. At their peak. In a weather neutral location, not too damp and cold for Bobby and not too hot and dry for Barry, who wins? Both of these guys had good skills and big hearts. Both fighters fought with the fans in mind. I would argue that Bobby fought better overall opponents in his career and would have that edge but I think this is a great "Dream Match".
Randy

Image
Barry's style was all-action, all-aggressive and made for quick burnout, although at his peak he was just too relentless for opponents, and that may have included Bobby. Trouble is, his peak was too short to fully rate him over Chacon. Barry wanted to move up to super-featherweight after licking Pedroza (who had made 19 successful defences) and take on Wilfredo Gomez in MSG, which would have been a dream match and a winnable one (Gomez was over the hill at super-feather) but it didn't happen and Barry's relationship with his manager, already in real jeapardy, went beyond the point of no return.
Ultimately, Bobby was the better, cagier boxer and the sharper one-punch hitter. He certainly had that longevity Rick Farris mentions times and again, and Rick is right. Great fighters are great over a longer period than Barry was great.

Bennie . . . I agree with your post, and let me say that I do not discount the heart, talent or punching power of McGuigan. The win over Pedroza was impressive. There was a time when I thought a Pedroza-Salvador Sanchez fight would have been a great match, but MGuigan whipped him bad. He did the same to Bernard Taylor in a title defense, actually pushing Taylor off the radar as a serious threat to the best in the feather division. But Barry had a few little edges when he fought as champ. One was a very strong fan base in Ireland and England. He was hot, and we felt the heat here. However, it would be the heat of the Nevada desert, an unfamiliar American-Latino crowd, the recent loss of his father (who always pumped his son's emotions over the top with his rendition of "Danny Boy" before the opening bell) and a tough little Texican who wasn't to worried about the heat. Stevie Cruz worked construction in San Antonio, Texas. He worked outside in the summer, when it's well over 100 degress. Anybody from the U.K. that has not aclimated to the desert sun is going to really feel the drain of the desert heat. No edges for Barry in Vegas, in fact, it was the first time he had to deal with a coming into another's hometown without papa, thousands of adoring fans wishing him well from across the Atlantic, but not there to pat his back as he entered the ring. He was kinda like a lone cowboy in hostile Indian territory and he got scalped. Now here is where McGuigan disappointed me, personally. He didn't "get over it". I mean, one loss? Cruz had all the edges that night, and he had nothing to lose. He survived the beginning and won when it got tough for his opponent. The champion would never really try to regain his title. That one night of Hell for Barry was one too many, and Barry was gone. Maybe he's just smarter than most? He knew when enough was enough, however, it's the guys that don't, like Bobby Chacon, who prove themselves all-timer greats. After nine title defenses, Danny Lopez lost badly to Sanchez. He came back and tried to regain it, and he fought Sanchez hard, before again being stopped late in the fight. Danny retired, and we who loved him in the ring and out were very happy. He would try one foolish comeback when he was in his forties, but after an embarrassing result hung 'em for good.

-Rick
Barry's star shone all too briefly, like most British fighters (Stracey, Conteh, Minter, Turpin...). "Enjoy it all, take it all in now and hang on to it, because believe me, it won't last," Irish songwriter Phil Coulter told McGuigan on the night he won his world title.
"Boy, was he right," said Barry, later.
McGuigan was back in the gym on the Monday following his Saturday win over Pedroza, training for Bernard Taylor. Typical. British fighters are back too quickly after 'huge' wins, when they need to rest. Barry looked stale against Taylor and Danilo Cabrera and his boxing world really fell apart after Cruz because his fragile relationship with Barney Eastwood really fell apart and led to prolonged litigation. Basically, Barry couldn't fight for a couple of vital years but did come back and looked pretty good a few times, although he began to pick up cuts and decided to call it a day after a 'nothing' cuts loss to Jim McDonnell in 1989 in four rounds.
Short and sweet.

PS: On the night of Barry's memorable win over Pedroza, his mum and dad's house in Clones caught fire, downstairs. "Help, help! We're on fire!" his mum shouted from the bedroom window. Somebody staggering past said, "Never mind, love. We're all on fire tonight."

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 11:03
by kikibalt
This article is for my good friend, Diego.

Image
Italy: Art springs to life in gardens near Rome
Renaissance artistry blooms at Villa Lante, Bomarzo, Ninfa and other elaborate landscapes just a drive away from the Vatican.

By Susan Spano, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

I know how to get to paradise -- in this life, anyway.

It lies atop a hill about 60 miles north of Rome where a gentleman-cardinal built a garden in the 16th century. His architects created it from water and stone, green leaves and vine. But the result is more than the sum of its parts. Villa Lante embodies the humanist ideals of the Italian Renaissance.

In a way, all gardens, from the lowliest patch of zinnias to a sophisticated jewel of landscape design such as Villa Lante, are postage stamps from Eden. So it is no wonder that soon after I moved to Rome last spring, I began seeking them out.

I took a Vatican Gardens tour to see the pope's beautiful backyard and saw the ingenious fountains at the Villa d'Este about 20 miles east of Rome. I found secret havens in the city -- the rose garden on the Aventine Hill, for one -- and tagged along with a group of architecture students from Yale University to visit Villa Madama, in the hills northwest of town. While the students sketched its elephant fountain, their professors told me about other gardens in the region of Lazio around Rome that attest to the evolution of garden art in Italy. Many are attached to country villas where counts and cardinals took refuge from the summer heat.

When that heat settled in, I fled the city almost every weekend, navigating my rental car to the Grande Raccordo Annulare, the ring road that encircles Rome. From there it was easy to find cool, green, consummately beautiful pieces of paradise.

Bomarzo and Villa Lante

In 1578, Cardinal Giovanni Francesco Gambara was suffering an attack of gout when Pope Gregory XIII arrived at the Villa Lante. When the pope saw Gambara's exquisite but obviously costly estate above the hamlet of Bagnaia, he canceled the cardinal's allowance.

It couldn't have been a good day for Gambara, but when I visited Villa Lante I was blessed in every way. On the drive from Rome I followed the path of the Tiber River, lined by fields of golden, just-reaped summer hay.

I turned off the highway near Orte into a landscape of volcanic hills, crater lakes and strange, eroded canyons. A winding country road took me to L'Ombricolo -- which means "the little shady spot" -- a bed-and-breakfast inn that occupies a tile-roofed farmhouse, surrounded by sunflowers.

With its vine-covered verandas and long vistas, L'Ombricolo turned out to be an Italian country idyll. Once I settled in, inn proprietor Dawne Alstrom gave me directions to Bagnaia and Bomarzo, a garden as remarkable as Villa Lante in its own weird way.

I found Bomarzo, a privately owned "garden of monsters," as it's called, in a narrow, wooded valley about a 20-minute drive from L'Ombricolo. From the parking lot it looked like a cheesy tourist attraction featuring monumental statues of dragons and sphinxes set among the trees, with no flowers to speak of.

But once I ventured in, I realized something profoundly strange was going on in the woods at Bomarzo.

Around the bend an ogre's head rears up, its wide-open maw revealing a tongue in the shape of a stone table where visitors can picnic while being devoured.

Art historians attribute the bizarre stone gallery, created circa 1570 by Vicino Orsini, to the rise of the Mannerist style of art that evolved after the High Renaissance. But psychology might also explain it.

Orsini was a papal soldier who retired, disillusioned, from the wars that wracked the Italian peninsula in the 16th century. At Bomarzo, I like to think he used his still-intact prankish sense of humor to vanquish his demons. Even his ravenous ogre and rampaging elephant have a benign air, inviting kids to play amid scenes of pillow-fight carnage.

I drove on to Bagnaia, set among rolling hills and vineyards. I parked by the train station, then climbed to the gate of the public park that buffers Villa Lante from the village below.

The villa began taking shape in the early 1500s as a hunting preserve entailed to the bishops of nearby Viterbo. But when Gambara gained possession in 1566 he put his own stamp on the property, creating a series of terrace gardens on the hillside. On the first level he built a pavilion out of local, whitish-green Pepperino stone. The next proprietor, Cardinal Alessandro Peretti Montalto, gave Villa Lante its symmetry by adding a twin pavilion to Gambara's original. Painters to fresco the little palaces -- or palazetti -- were borrowed from a construction site in nearby Caprarola, where Gambara's friend, Cardinal Alessandro Farnese, was building an even grander villa.

Along with the summer heat, a burgeoning interest in classical art and literature drove the luxury estate building boom in the Roman countryside. From Ovid and Pliny rich patricians found a new model for good living in the quiet seclusion of suburban villas built and decorated along ancient lines. Gardens with groves, grottoes, statues and fountains were part of the prescription for well-being.

A none-too-classical spirit of competition also existed among villa builders such as Cardinal Ippolito d'Este, who leveled the side of a hill and re-routed a river to create his opulent garden at Tivoli, a town in the mountains east of Rome. Among the garden's scores of fountains are a water-operated organ and intermittently running jets that douse surprised passersby.

Villa Lante is comparatively demure, intent on perfection, not astonishment, without the distraction of flowers and unchangingly green through the seasons.

When I passed through the gate I got a strong whiff of freshly clipped boxwood from the parterres around the Fountain of the Moors on the lower level, the interlocking hedges shaped in spirals, squares and circles with little lemon trees peeking out.

Then I turned around and saw the chain of fountains that decorates the hill. Drawn from springs in the nearby San Valentino hills, the watercourse emerges from the highest grotto, known as the Fountain of the Flood, then vanishes and reappears in pools and channels that flow between the two palazetti.

There are the Fountain of the Dolphins, richly emblazoned with the Gambara crayfish crest; the scalloping Chain Fountain, as ramblingly beautiful as any mountain stream; the long Cardinal's Table, with troughs of running water that served as finger bowls for Gambara's dinner guests; and, finally, the classic Renaissance garden on the lowest terrace.

Later I read in Helena Attlee's "Italian Gardens" that, from top to bottom, Villa Lante tells the story of human evolution, beginning with the rustic Eden created by God at the Fountain of the Flood and climaxing in the perfect geometry of the lower parterres.

But to understand the garden's symbolism isn't to take any less sensual delight in it. I couldn't keep from slipping off my sandal and dipping my toes in the cold, flowing water of the Chain Fountain. I ran my palms across the moss that now clothes Villa Lante's stone nymphs and goddesses. Finally, I sat at the Cardinal's Table, half waiting for Gambara's liveried servants to serve lunch.

Ninfa and Landriana

Most people have just one thing in mind when they head south from Rome in the summer: the beach, which follows the coast of the Tyrrhenian Sea all the way to Naples, sandy in some places, pebble-strewn or edged by ragged cliffs in others.

About 20 miles inland a chain of mountains crops up, beginning just south of Rome in the Alban Hills, home to Castel Gandolfo, the pope's summer retreat.

The plain between the mountains and the sea is carpeted by farms that feed Rome's appetite for fresh tomatoes, hot peppers and zucchini blossoms. This is where two of my favorite Italian gardens lie. To reach them you turn off the Grande Raccordo Annulare onto old Roman roads that are now highways: the Appian Way and the Pontina.

Headed down the Pontina to the beach one weekend, I stopped to see a garden set in the medieval town of Ninfa, owned along with its hilltop neighbor Sermoneta by the noble Caetani family, which still has a palazzo in the historic center of Rome.

At its peak in the 13th and 14th centuries, Ninfa had seven churches, a double ring of fortifications, a castle, town hall, 150 houses and 2,000 people. But incessant wars and marsh-bred malaria took their toll, leaving it a ghost town slumbering in walls of bracken and briar.

I would have liked to have leisurely discovered Ninfa the way Duke Onorato Caetani's wife, English-born Ada, did in the 1870s, when she took her children to the old family place for picnics and then started planting seeds.

But Ninfa, now owned by the Caetani Foundation and open to visitors on selected summer weekends, is so hard to find that getting here is still an adventure. After driving in circles, I stopped to ask villagers. Looking at me doubtfully, they all gave me different directions and I eventually noticed a small sign for it tucked into the foliage beside the road.

An even better way of seeing the grounds: an invitation from Duke Roffredo Caetani and his American wife, Marguerite, who took possession of Ninfa in the 1930s. Marguerite, who died in 1958, was the editor of international literary magazines that published the work of such writers as Evelyn Waugh, who were often weekend guests.

Under her supervision, Ninfa took on aspects of an English garden featuring landscape rather than fussy flower beds. It is a garden for wandering with a book and a dog, for lying in fresh-cut grass and dreaming, especially in April and May when the ornamental cherries blossom.

As it was, I saw Ninfa with a Caetani Foundation tour during the stultifying height of summer, when only a few pink roses lingered to suggest the garden's spring quintessence.

We entered near a cold spring-water lake that feeds the Ninfa River, saw fine old Holm oaks and white maples, then stopped at the ruined Church of Santa Maria Maggiore where Pope Alexander III was crowned in 1159 after having been forced to leave Rome by supporters of Emperor Frederick I (known as Barbarossa).

The old town's main street is now lined by sinuous cypresses. Nearby, a crumbling wall serves as a backdrop for a small banana plantation.

Protected from extreme weather by the Lepini Mountains to the east and the ever-chilly Ninfa River, the 20-acre garden has myriad microclimates in which the Caetanis experimented with non-native plants such as banana, bamboo and magnolias. In damp spots near the river, lilies thrive and everywhere there are roses climbing medieval ruins or preening in the walled garden.

Ada and Marguerite Caetani were among the foreigners who helped keep Italian garden art alive in the war-torn 19th and 20th centuries. World War II was especially disastrous in the region south of Rome.

Nevertheless, another stunning Italian garden took shape there after the war.

La Landriana is an estate a few miles north and inland from Anzio, on 25 acres of land left bare and mine-pocked after the war. The Marquis Gallarati-Scotti and his wife, Lavinia Taverna, bought it at auction in 1956, and it remains the family's country home, receiving visitors only by appointment.

To see it I booked a tour with Sue Webster, an English-speaking guide and avid gardener who lives nearby.

La Landriana's story starts with a bag of seeds given to the marquise by a friend, which she planted and watched spring up. After that, she ordered more plants native to the Mediterranean, Australia or California, according to her interest of the moment. A garden took shape, but without coherent form.

In 1967, she summoned English garden architect Russell Page to La Landriana.

Page was a devotee of Renaissance formal gardens, which were then out of style.

The relationship between Page and Taverna, who died in 1997, proved especially fruitful as the master brought order and subtlety to the passionate experimenter's diverse plant collection.

Page divided the hillside garden into 32 themed "rooms," as he called them, using Taverna's nurslings to create subtle artistic ensembles of texture, scent, shape and color. As a result, La Landriana is a gardener's garden, known among connoisseurs for its subtle design and unusual variety of plants.

When I visited, Webster and I had La Landriana to ourselves so she could take time to show me the finer points I might have missed, beginning in the Orange Garden where clipped globes of bitter orange trees and crepe myrtle dominate four parterres carpeted with Creeping Jenny.

The garden's central corridor is a walkway surrounded by white roses such as 'Sea Foam' and 'Sally Holmes,' with paths leading into heather, magnolia and hydrangea rooms. At the bottom of the hill is a lake where swamp cypresses spread their knobby knees.

I will have to go back to La Landriana in the spring to see its crowning glory, a small valley of 'Mutabilis' roses that change color as they mature so that every bush displays a range of shades from pale apricot to red.

Later, I sat on a nearby beach overlooking the blue Tyrrhenian Sea. It was lovely but hot, and something was missing. There was no green, the color of paradise found in an Italian garden.

[email protected]

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 11:41
by dagosd2000
kikibalt wrote:This article is for my good friend, Diego.

Image
Italy: Art springs to life in gardens near Rome
Renaissance artistry blooms at Villa Lante, Bomarzo, Ninfa and other elaborate landscapes just a drive away from the Vatican.

By Susan Spano, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

I know how to get to paradise -- in this life, anyway.

It lies atop a hill about 60 miles north of Rome where a gentleman-cardinal built a garden in the 16th century. His architects created it from water and stone, green leaves and vine. But the result is more than the sum of its parts. Villa Lante embodies the humanist ideals of the Italian Renaissance.

In a way, all gardens, from the lowliest patch of zinnias to a sophisticated jewel of landscape design such as Villa Lante, are postage stamps from Eden. So it is no wonder that soon after I moved to Rome last spring, I began seeking them out.

I took a Vatican Gardens tour to see the pope's beautiful backyard and saw the ingenious fountains at the Villa d'Este about 20 miles east of Rome. I found secret havens in the city -- the rose garden on the Aventine Hill, for one -- and tagged along with a group of architecture students from Yale University to visit Villa Madama, in the hills northwest of town. While the students sketched its elephant fountain, their professors told me about other gardens in the region of Lazio around Rome that attest to the evolution of garden art in Italy. Many are attached to country villas where counts and cardinals took refuge from the summer heat.

When that heat settled in, I fled the city almost every weekend, navigating my rental car to the Grande Raccordo Annulare, the ring road that encircles Rome. From there it was easy to find cool, green, consummately beautiful pieces of paradise.

Bomarzo and Villa Lante

In 1578, Cardinal Giovanni Francesco Gambara was suffering an attack of gout when Pope Gregory XIII arrived at the Villa Lante. When the pope saw Gambara's exquisite but obviously costly estate above the hamlet of Bagnaia, he canceled the cardinal's allowance.

It couldn't have been a good day for Gambara, but when I visited Villa Lante I was blessed in every way. On the drive from Rome I followed the path of the Tiber River, lined by fields of golden, just-reaped summer hay.

I turned off the highway near Orte into a landscape of volcanic hills, crater lakes and strange, eroded canyons. A winding country road took me to L'Ombricolo -- which means "the little shady spot" -- a bed-and-breakfast inn that occupies a tile-roofed farmhouse, surrounded by sunflowers.

With its vine-covered verandas and long vistas, L'Ombricolo turned out to be an Italian country idyll. Once I settled in, inn proprietor Dawne Alstrom gave me directions to Bagnaia and Bomarzo, a garden as remarkable as Villa Lante in its own weird way.

I found Bomarzo, a privately owned "garden of monsters," as it's called, in a narrow, wooded valley about a 20-minute drive from L'Ombricolo. From the parking lot it looked like a cheesy tourist attraction featuring monumental statues of dragons and sphinxes set among the trees, with no flowers to speak of.

But once I ventured in, I realized something profoundly strange was going on in the woods at Bomarzo.

Around the bend an ogre's head rears up, its wide-open maw revealing a tongue in the shape of a stone table where visitors can picnic while being devoured.

Art historians attribute the bizarre stone gallery, created circa 1570 by Vicino Orsini, to the rise of the Mannerist style of art that evolved after the High Renaissance. But psychology might also explain it.

Orsini was a papal soldier who retired, disillusioned, from the wars that wracked the Italian peninsula in the 16th century. At Bomarzo, I like to think he used his still-intact prankish sense of humor to vanquish his demons. Even his ravenous ogre and rampaging elephant have a benign air, inviting kids to play amid scenes of pillow-fight carnage.

I drove on to Bagnaia, set among rolling hills and vineyards. I parked by the train station, then climbed to the gate of the public park that buffers Villa Lante from the village below.

The villa began taking shape in the early 1500s as a hunting preserve entailed to the bishops of nearby Viterbo. But when Gambara gained possession in 1566 he put his own stamp on the property, creating a series of terrace gardens on the hillside. On the first level he built a pavilion out of local, whitish-green Pepperino stone. The next proprietor, Cardinal Alessandro Peretti Montalto, gave Villa Lante its symmetry by adding a twin pavilion to Gambara's original. Painters to fresco the little palaces -- or palazetti -- were borrowed from a construction site in nearby Caprarola, where Gambara's friend, Cardinal Alessandro Farnese, was building an even grander villa.

Along with the summer heat, a burgeoning interest in classical art and literature drove the luxury estate building boom in the Roman countryside. From Ovid and Pliny rich patricians found a new model for good living in the quiet seclusion of suburban villas built and decorated along ancient lines. Gardens with groves, grottoes, statues and fountains were part of the prescription for well-being.

A none-too-classical spirit of competition also existed among villa builders such as Cardinal Ippolito d'Este, who leveled the side of a hill and re-routed a river to create his opulent garden at Tivoli, a town in the mountains east of Rome. Among the garden's scores of fountains are a water-operated organ and intermittently running jets that douse surprised passersby.

Villa Lante is comparatively demure, intent on perfection, not astonishment, without the distraction of flowers and unchangingly green through the seasons.

When I passed through the gate I got a strong whiff of freshly clipped boxwood from the parterres around the Fountain of the Moors on the lower level, the interlocking hedges shaped in spirals, squares and circles with little lemon trees peeking out.

Then I turned around and saw the chain of fountains that decorates the hill. Drawn from springs in the nearby San Valentino hills, the watercourse emerges from the highest grotto, known as the Fountain of the Flood, then vanishes and reappears in pools and channels that flow between the two palazetti.

There are the Fountain of the Dolphins, richly emblazoned with the Gambara crayfish crest; the scalloping Chain Fountain, as ramblingly beautiful as any mountain stream; the long Cardinal's Table, with troughs of running water that served as finger bowls for Gambara's dinner guests; and, finally, the classic Renaissance garden on the lowest terrace.

Later I read in Helena Attlee's "Italian Gardens" that, from top to bottom, Villa Lante tells the story of human evolution, beginning with the rustic Eden created by God at the Fountain of the Flood and climaxing in the perfect geometry of the lower parterres.

But to understand the garden's symbolism isn't to take any less sensual delight in it. I couldn't keep from slipping off my sandal and dipping my toes in the cold, flowing water of the Chain Fountain. I ran my palms across the moss that now clothes Villa Lante's stone nymphs and goddesses. Finally, I sat at the Cardinal's Table, half waiting for Gambara's liveried servants to serve lunch.

Ninfa and Landriana

Most people have just one thing in mind when they head south from Rome in the summer: the beach, which follows the coast of the Tyrrhenian Sea all the way to Naples, sandy in some places, pebble-strewn or edged by ragged cliffs in others.

About 20 miles inland a chain of mountains crops up, beginning just south of Rome in the Alban Hills, home to Castel Gandolfo, the pope's summer retreat.

The plain between the mountains and the sea is carpeted by farms that feed Rome's appetite for fresh tomatoes, hot peppers and zucchini blossoms. This is where two of my favorite Italian gardens lie. To reach them you turn off the Grande Raccordo Annulare onto old Roman roads that are now highways: the Appian Way and the Pontina.

Headed down the Pontina to the beach one weekend, I stopped to see a garden set in the medieval town of Ninfa, owned along with its hilltop neighbor Sermoneta by the noble Caetani family, which still has a palazzo in the historic center of Rome.

At its peak in the 13th and 14th centuries, Ninfa had seven churches, a double ring of fortifications, a castle, town hall, 150 houses and 2,000 people. But incessant wars and marsh-bred malaria took their toll, leaving it a ghost town slumbering in walls of bracken and briar.

I would have liked to have leisurely discovered Ninfa the way Duke Onorato Caetani's wife, English-born Ada, did in the 1870s, when she took her children to the old family place for picnics and then started planting seeds.

But Ninfa, now owned by the Caetani Foundation and open to visitors on selected summer weekends, is so hard to find that getting here is still an adventure. After driving in circles, I stopped to ask villagers. Looking at me doubtfully, they all gave me different directions and I eventually noticed a small sign for it tucked into the foliage beside the road.

An even better way of seeing the grounds: an invitation from Duke Roffredo Caetani and his American wife, Marguerite, who took possession of Ninfa in the 1930s. Marguerite, who died in 1958, was the editor of international literary magazines that published the work of such writers as Evelyn Waugh, who were often weekend guests.

Under her supervision, Ninfa took on aspects of an English garden featuring landscape rather than fussy flower beds. It is a garden for wandering with a book and a dog, for lying in fresh-cut grass and dreaming, especially in April and May when the ornamental cherries blossom.

As it was, I saw Ninfa with a Caetani Foundation tour during the stultifying height of summer, when only a few pink roses lingered to suggest the garden's spring quintessence.

We entered near a cold spring-water lake that feeds the Ninfa River, saw fine old Holm oaks and white maples, then stopped at the ruined Church of Santa Maria Maggiore where Pope Alexander III was crowned in 1159 after having been forced to leave Rome by supporters of Emperor Frederick I (known as Barbarossa).

The old town's main street is now lined by sinuous cypresses. Nearby, a crumbling wall serves as a backdrop for a small banana plantation.

Protected from extreme weather by the Lepini Mountains to the east and the ever-chilly Ninfa River, the 20-acre garden has myriad microclimates in which the Caetanis experimented with non-native plants such as banana, bamboo and magnolias. In damp spots near the river, lilies thrive and everywhere there are roses climbing medieval ruins or preening in the walled garden.

Ada and Marguerite Caetani were among the foreigners who helped keep Italian garden art alive in the war-torn 19th and 20th centuries. World War II was especially disastrous in the region south of Rome.

Nevertheless, another stunning Italian garden took shape there after the war.

La Landriana is an estate a few miles north and inland from Anzio, on 25 acres of land left bare and mine-pocked after the war. The Marquis Gallarati-Scotti and his wife, Lavinia Taverna, bought it at auction in 1956, and it remains the family's country home, receiving visitors only by appointment.

To see it I booked a tour with Sue Webster, an English-speaking guide and avid gardener who lives nearby.

La Landriana's story starts with a bag of seeds given to the marquise by a friend, which she planted and watched spring up. After that, she ordered more plants native to the Mediterranean, Australia or California, according to her interest of the moment. A garden took shape, but without coherent form.

In 1967, she summoned English garden architect Russell Page to La Landriana.

Page was a devotee of Renaissance formal gardens, which were then out of style.

The relationship between Page and Taverna, who died in 1997, proved especially fruitful as the master brought order and subtlety to the passionate experimenter's diverse plant collection.

Page divided the hillside garden into 32 themed "rooms," as he called them, using Taverna's nurslings to create subtle artistic ensembles of texture, scent, shape and color. As a result, La Landriana is a gardener's garden, known among connoisseurs for its subtle design and unusual variety of plants.

When I visited, Webster and I had La Landriana to ourselves so she could take time to show me the finer points I might have missed, beginning in the Orange Garden where clipped globes of bitter orange trees and crepe myrtle dominate four parterres carpeted with Creeping Jenny.

The garden's central corridor is a walkway surrounded by white roses such as 'Sea Foam' and 'Sally Holmes,' with paths leading into heather, magnolia and hydrangea rooms. At the bottom of the hill is a lake where swamp cypresses spread their knobby knees.

I will have to go back to La Landriana in the spring to see its crowning glory, a small valley of 'Mutabilis' roses that change color as they mature so that every bush displays a range of shades from pale apricot to red.

Later, I sat on a nearby beach overlooking the blue Tyrrhenian Sea. It was lovely but hot, and something was missing. There was no green, the color of paradise found in an Italian garden.

[email protected]

Frank
That was very nice.Gardens with all the colors,views of valleys and hills. water from lakes and rivers. All these natural gifts are choreographed to make life pleasant. Add fountains and statues. An openess to a villa.A Mediterranean diet. Olive oil,fresh vegetables,cheeses(you don't have to have any),warm bread,a little red whine. Pretty girls from the small towns. The extended family. Time moves slowly.

When I go to Michoacan,I think of my Latino friends who've never been to places like the one described in the article. You don't have to go to Italy. Below the border there are thousands of pueblos that like the villas of Italy.

I know our buddie Bennie said that you would hate France. But sit outside in a little cafe. A warm breeze. A small table. Some bread. An antipasto. A glass of wine. All the people walking by. A view of the Seine. An accordian player at a table.

OK Bennie we'll move it over to the Costa Azul in Michoacan. :D

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 11:44
by bennie
Rick Farris wrote:
Randyman wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Image
Vitali Klitschko, right, from Ukraine hits Samuel Peter, left, from Nigeria during a WBC heavyweight boxing world championship fight in Berlin, Germany, Saturday, Oct. 11, 2008. Klitschko won the fight after round nine due to technical knock out.
Maybe it's just me but I can't seem to care about the heavyweights right now. Has there ever been a worse time. This is the era of.. what? Shameful. :witzend:

"Shameful" is the kindest thing that can be said, Randy. You know, I really love Vitali, the better of the Lurch Brothers. I love that the soft chinned oaf is so willing to stick his gigantic jaw out while his hands are held so ridiculously low. Mando Ramos used to end a phone conversation with the same old saying, "Keep your hands up, your chin down, and ass off the canvas." It seems as if the Eastern European heavy's are eager to showcase their weak chins. Their hearts are no stronger, so what's going to keep them off the deck, aside from inferior opposition such as a Sam Peter? They are big, however. :lol:

Rick
Seriously, they ought to ban heavyweight boxing. Freaks, the lot of 'em, useless freaks.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 11:49
by bennie
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:This article is for my good friend, Diego.

Image
Italy: Art springs to life in gardens near Rome
Renaissance artistry blooms at Villa Lante, Bomarzo, Ninfa and other elaborate landscapes just a drive away from the Vatican.

By Susan Spano, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

I know how to get to paradise -- in this life, anyway.

It lies atop a hill about 60 miles north of Rome where a gentleman-cardinal built a garden in the 16th century. His architects created it from water and stone, green leaves and vine. But the result is more than the sum of its parts. Villa Lante embodies the humanist ideals of the Italian Renaissance.

In a way, all gardens, from the lowliest patch of zinnias to a sophisticated jewel of landscape design such as Villa Lante, are postage stamps from Eden. So it is no wonder that soon after I moved to Rome last spring, I began seeking them out.

I took a Vatican Gardens tour to see the pope's beautiful backyard and saw the ingenious fountains at the Villa d'Este about 20 miles east of Rome. I found secret havens in the city -- the rose garden on the Aventine Hill, for one -- and tagged along with a group of architecture students from Yale University to visit Villa Madama, in the hills northwest of town. While the students sketched its elephant fountain, their professors told me about other gardens in the region of Lazio around Rome that attest to the evolution of garden art in Italy. Many are attached to country villas where counts and cardinals took refuge from the summer heat.

When that heat settled in, I fled the city almost every weekend, navigating my rental car to the Grande Raccordo Annulare, the ring road that encircles Rome. From there it was easy to find cool, green, consummately beautiful pieces of paradise.

Bomarzo and Villa Lante

In 1578, Cardinal Giovanni Francesco Gambara was suffering an attack of gout when Pope Gregory XIII arrived at the Villa Lante. When the pope saw Gambara's exquisite but obviously costly estate above the hamlet of Bagnaia, he canceled the cardinal's allowance.

It couldn't have been a good day for Gambara, but when I visited Villa Lante I was blessed in every way. On the drive from Rome I followed the path of the Tiber River, lined by fields of golden, just-reaped summer hay.

I turned off the highway near Orte into a landscape of volcanic hills, crater lakes and strange, eroded canyons. A winding country road took me to L'Ombricolo -- which means "the little shady spot" -- a bed-and-breakfast inn that occupies a tile-roofed farmhouse, surrounded by sunflowers.

With its vine-covered verandas and long vistas, L'Ombricolo turned out to be an Italian country idyll. Once I settled in, inn proprietor Dawne Alstrom gave me directions to Bagnaia and Bomarzo, a garden as remarkable as Villa Lante in its own weird way.

I found Bomarzo, a privately owned "garden of monsters," as it's called, in a narrow, wooded valley about a 20-minute drive from L'Ombricolo. From the parking lot it looked like a cheesy tourist attraction featuring monumental statues of dragons and sphinxes set among the trees, with no flowers to speak of.

But once I ventured in, I realized something profoundly strange was going on in the woods at Bomarzo.

Around the bend an ogre's head rears up, its wide-open maw revealing a tongue in the shape of a stone table where visitors can picnic while being devoured.

Art historians attribute the bizarre stone gallery, created circa 1570 by Vicino Orsini, to the rise of the Mannerist style of art that evolved after the High Renaissance. But psychology might also explain it.

Orsini was a papal soldier who retired, disillusioned, from the wars that wracked the Italian peninsula in the 16th century. At Bomarzo, I like to think he used his still-intact prankish sense of humor to vanquish his demons. Even his ravenous ogre and rampaging elephant have a benign air, inviting kids to play amid scenes of pillow-fight carnage.

I drove on to Bagnaia, set among rolling hills and vineyards. I parked by the train station, then climbed to the gate of the public park that buffers Villa Lante from the village below.

The villa began taking shape in the early 1500s as a hunting preserve entailed to the bishops of nearby Viterbo. But when Gambara gained possession in 1566 he put his own stamp on the property, creating a series of terrace gardens on the hillside. On the first level he built a pavilion out of local, whitish-green Pepperino stone. The next proprietor, Cardinal Alessandro Peretti Montalto, gave Villa Lante its symmetry by adding a twin pavilion to Gambara's original. Painters to fresco the little palaces -- or palazetti -- were borrowed from a construction site in nearby Caprarola, where Gambara's friend, Cardinal Alessandro Farnese, was building an even grander villa.

Along with the summer heat, a burgeoning interest in classical art and literature drove the luxury estate building boom in the Roman countryside. From Ovid and Pliny rich patricians found a new model for good living in the quiet seclusion of suburban villas built and decorated along ancient lines. Gardens with groves, grottoes, statues and fountains were part of the prescription for well-being.

A none-too-classical spirit of competition also existed among villa builders such as Cardinal Ippolito d'Este, who leveled the side of a hill and re-routed a river to create his opulent garden at Tivoli, a town in the mountains east of Rome. Among the garden's scores of fountains are a water-operated organ and intermittently running jets that douse surprised passersby.

Villa Lante is comparatively demure, intent on perfection, not astonishment, without the distraction of flowers and unchangingly green through the seasons.

When I passed through the gate I got a strong whiff of freshly clipped boxwood from the parterres around the Fountain of the Moors on the lower level, the interlocking hedges shaped in spirals, squares and circles with little lemon trees peeking out.

Then I turned around and saw the chain of fountains that decorates the hill. Drawn from springs in the nearby San Valentino hills, the watercourse emerges from the highest grotto, known as the Fountain of the Flood, then vanishes and reappears in pools and channels that flow between the two palazetti.

There are the Fountain of the Dolphins, richly emblazoned with the Gambara crayfish crest; the scalloping Chain Fountain, as ramblingly beautiful as any mountain stream; the long Cardinal's Table, with troughs of running water that served as finger bowls for Gambara's dinner guests; and, finally, the classic Renaissance garden on the lowest terrace.

Later I read in Helena Attlee's "Italian Gardens" that, from top to bottom, Villa Lante tells the story of human evolution, beginning with the rustic Eden created by God at the Fountain of the Flood and climaxing in the perfect geometry of the lower parterres.

But to understand the garden's symbolism isn't to take any less sensual delight in it. I couldn't keep from slipping off my sandal and dipping my toes in the cold, flowing water of the Chain Fountain. I ran my palms across the moss that now clothes Villa Lante's stone nymphs and goddesses. Finally, I sat at the Cardinal's Table, half waiting for Gambara's liveried servants to serve lunch.

Ninfa and Landriana

Most people have just one thing in mind when they head south from Rome in the summer: the beach, which follows the coast of the Tyrrhenian Sea all the way to Naples, sandy in some places, pebble-strewn or edged by ragged cliffs in others.

About 20 miles inland a chain of mountains crops up, beginning just south of Rome in the Alban Hills, home to Castel Gandolfo, the pope's summer retreat.

The plain between the mountains and the sea is carpeted by farms that feed Rome's appetite for fresh tomatoes, hot peppers and zucchini blossoms. This is where two of my favorite Italian gardens lie. To reach them you turn off the Grande Raccordo Annulare onto old Roman roads that are now highways: the Appian Way and the Pontina.

Headed down the Pontina to the beach one weekend, I stopped to see a garden set in the medieval town of Ninfa, owned along with its hilltop neighbor Sermoneta by the noble Caetani family, which still has a palazzo in the historic center of Rome.

At its peak in the 13th and 14th centuries, Ninfa had seven churches, a double ring of fortifications, a castle, town hall, 150 houses and 2,000 people. But incessant wars and marsh-bred malaria took their toll, leaving it a ghost town slumbering in walls of bracken and briar.

I would have liked to have leisurely discovered Ninfa the way Duke Onorato Caetani's wife, English-born Ada, did in the 1870s, when she took her children to the old family place for picnics and then started planting seeds.

But Ninfa, now owned by the Caetani Foundation and open to visitors on selected summer weekends, is so hard to find that getting here is still an adventure. After driving in circles, I stopped to ask villagers. Looking at me doubtfully, they all gave me different directions and I eventually noticed a small sign for it tucked into the foliage beside the road.

An even better way of seeing the grounds: an invitation from Duke Roffredo Caetani and his American wife, Marguerite, who took possession of Ninfa in the 1930s. Marguerite, who died in 1958, was the editor of international literary magazines that published the work of such writers as Evelyn Waugh, who were often weekend guests.

Under her supervision, Ninfa took on aspects of an English garden featuring landscape rather than fussy flower beds. It is a garden for wandering with a book and a dog, for lying in fresh-cut grass and dreaming, especially in April and May when the ornamental cherries blossom.

As it was, I saw Ninfa with a Caetani Foundation tour during the stultifying height of summer, when only a few pink roses lingered to suggest the garden's spring quintessence.

We entered near a cold spring-water lake that feeds the Ninfa River, saw fine old Holm oaks and white maples, then stopped at the ruined Church of Santa Maria Maggiore where Pope Alexander III was crowned in 1159 after having been forced to leave Rome by supporters of Emperor Frederick I (known as Barbarossa).

The old town's main street is now lined by sinuous cypresses. Nearby, a crumbling wall serves as a backdrop for a small banana plantation.

Protected from extreme weather by the Lepini Mountains to the east and the ever-chilly Ninfa River, the 20-acre garden has myriad microclimates in which the Caetanis experimented with non-native plants such as banana, bamboo and magnolias. In damp spots near the river, lilies thrive and everywhere there are roses climbing medieval ruins or preening in the walled garden.

Ada and Marguerite Caetani were among the foreigners who helped keep Italian garden art alive in the war-torn 19th and 20th centuries. World War II was especially disastrous in the region south of Rome.

Nevertheless, another stunning Italian garden took shape there after the war.

La Landriana is an estate a few miles north and inland from Anzio, on 25 acres of land left bare and mine-pocked after the war. The Marquis Gallarati-Scotti and his wife, Lavinia Taverna, bought it at auction in 1956, and it remains the family's country home, receiving visitors only by appointment.

To see it I booked a tour with Sue Webster, an English-speaking guide and avid gardener who lives nearby.

La Landriana's story starts with a bag of seeds given to the marquise by a friend, which she planted and watched spring up. After that, she ordered more plants native to the Mediterranean, Australia or California, according to her interest of the moment. A garden took shape, but without coherent form.

In 1967, she summoned English garden architect Russell Page to La Landriana.

Page was a devotee of Renaissance formal gardens, which were then out of style.

The relationship between Page and Taverna, who died in 1997, proved especially fruitful as the master brought order and subtlety to the passionate experimenter's diverse plant collection.

Page divided the hillside garden into 32 themed "rooms," as he called them, using Taverna's nurslings to create subtle artistic ensembles of texture, scent, shape and color. As a result, La Landriana is a gardener's garden, known among connoisseurs for its subtle design and unusual variety of plants.

When I visited, Webster and I had La Landriana to ourselves so she could take time to show me the finer points I might have missed, beginning in the Orange Garden where clipped globes of bitter orange trees and crepe myrtle dominate four parterres carpeted with Creeping Jenny.

The garden's central corridor is a walkway surrounded by white roses such as 'Sea Foam' and 'Sally Holmes,' with paths leading into heather, magnolia and hydrangea rooms. At the bottom of the hill is a lake where swamp cypresses spread their knobby knees.

I will have to go back to La Landriana in the spring to see its crowning glory, a small valley of 'Mutabilis' roses that change color as they mature so that every bush displays a range of shades from pale apricot to red.

Later, I sat on a nearby beach overlooking the blue Tyrrhenian Sea. It was lovely but hot, and something was missing. There was no green, the color of paradise found in an Italian garden.

[email protected]

Frank
That was very nice.Gardens with all the colors,views of valleys and hills. water from lakes and rivers. All these natural gifts are choreographed to make life pleasant. Add fountains and statues. An openess to a villa.A Mediterranean diet. Olive oil,fresh vegetables,cheeses(you don't have to have any),warm bread,a little red whine. Pretty girls from the small towns. The extended family. Time moves slowly.

When I go to Michoacan,I think of my Latino friends who've never been to places like the one described in the article. You don't have to go to Italy. Below the border there are thousands of pueblos that like the villas of Italy.

I know our buddie Bennie said that you would hate France. But sit outside in a little cafe. A warm breeze. A small table. Some bread. An antipasto. A glass of wine. All the people walking by. A view of the Seine. An accordian player at a table.

OK Bennie we'll move it over to the Costa Azul in Michoacan. :D
:TU:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 12:48
by kikibalt
Randy, I shot this photo about a year or so ago, after we had some
rains, I think its one of my best ones.

Image

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 13:05
by Bobbin & Weavin
Rick Farris wrote:
Randyman wrote:About the word "Bastid". When I first started training with Mel, he had a speed bag but no swivel. He had to keep borrowing a bag from someone. I had a swivel at home so i told Mel I would bring it in so he wouldn't have to borrow from anyone. He said okay so I did.

When it came time to hit the bag Mel started to screw the swivel in. It wouldn't go in right and Mel was starting to get impatient, as only he could. Finally, he looks at me and says "This is a bastid swivel" I thought "bastid?" What's a bastid? So I said "what?" Thinking I heard wrong. What's a bastid Mel?" he looks at me as if I was an idiot. He says "A bastid!". Again I said "What's a bastid? You don't know what a f**king bastid is? His eyes going back and forth in exasperation and despair. I was starting to feel stupid, not knowing what a bastid was. Again, a little irritated with him now but still feeling stupid I said "I never heard of it before". Astonished he said "You never heard of a bastid? Where did you grow up, under a rock" A bastid, a motherless child!!" Then the light bulb goes on. Oh, you mean a bastard?" Again looking at me like I was Gomer Pyle "That's what I said "bastid!". I decided right then and there to let it go. After that I learned to pay attention to his speaking idiosyncrasies. He never said Champion either, he said Champeen.
You have no idea how hard I am laughing. I mean it, Randy. I can see Mel as you tell the story, that's what is so funny, kinda like a hologram. "Bastid!", Of course. I gotta tell you a story that took place when I brought Mel home to watch the Duran-Lampkin fight. I'll save it for later, but he was at his "best" that night. He was irritated about something and began turning to the side and speaking to his invisable friend. Having a complete conversation with gestures and all. I brought Mel into a place to watch the fight with a few guys in their 20's and one had an ear ring and Mel looked at him like he was a terrorist. "There's something wrong with that one," Mel pointed out. You know, he was probably right. I say that a lot today.

-Rick
Randy & Rick,
Nothing has made me laugh harder on this thread than the stories you two have told about Mel Epstien; that one takes the cake! Has there been a pictures of Mel posted on this thread? I would love to see one.
Keep up the great stories!
Bruce

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 13:28
by Randyman
kikibalt wrote:Randy, I shot this photo about a year or so ago, after we had some
rains, I think its one of my best ones.

Image
Hauntingly beautiful Frank.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 14:09
by kikibalt
For Diego

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu7EKXVTwK4
Jose Alfredo Jimenez & Amalia mendoza

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 14:12
by Randyman
Randy & Rick,
Nothing has made me laugh harder on this thread than the stories you two have told about Mel Epstien; that one takes the cake! Has there been a pictures of Mel posted on this thread? I would love to see one.
Keep up the great stories!
Bruce
Thanks Bruce. Mel was an original. Think Jimmy Durante's Knobby Walsh, Joe Palooka's trainer. Despite Mel's skepticism and cynicism, he had an often hilarious personality, sometimes unknowingly. The flip side of all that is that he had a heart of gold, if he liked you! Or more accurately, you were either on his shit list or you weren't, there were no in betweens with Mel. He had an ongoing feud with most of the other trainers at the Main Street Gym. Usually it was over something petty. If he believed he was right about something there was no changing his mind. Throughout the year regardless of the weather, Mel wanted the windows open. It didn't matter what anyone else wanted, those damned windows were going to be open. "A fighter needs fresh air" he would say. He hated women. Fell in love once in his life, almost got married, it didn't work out so screw women, or as he would say it, wimmin. He was a curmudgeon and mysogynist of the worst kind. Rick can tell you more about that. I can only say that I have never forgotten Mel.

In some ways, he was more like a grandfather to me. He knew that too. Mel had leukemia and was often sick, which could account for his foul moods. I would often run errands for him. Now I lived across town, but when Mel called me for favor I never said no. With all of his peculiar faults I loved the man. There was a time when I was staying with Mel for a few days. He was ill. He was taking a hot bath and for some reason that day, his legs failed him. I heard him yelling for me. He was a little frightened, I could tell by his voice. I went to the door and asked if he was alright. He said "No, I need help getting out" I had to ask! I said "What do you want me to do?" "Get in here and help me get out of here!" So, I did, helped him dry off too. It was awkward, I'll tell you. But he was a friend, so you do what you have to.

I had never had an omelet until I met Mel. It just wasn't anything anyone in my family ate. He made me my first omelet. Got me to drink buttermilk and eat cole slaw. Two things I hated. I enjoy both of them now. He cooked so many meals for me. I learned not only about boxing and boxing history but more importantly he taught me about life. I am in some ways indebted to him. That's how I pay him back. By remembering him.

I don't have any photos of Mel. In fact, that's a sore spot with me, regarding another fighter that Mel was training at the same time as me. I'm sure Rick remembers him. I won't mention his name because I don't believe in gossip. Maybe someday I'll share it, minus the name.

Randy

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 14:53
by Randyman
Image

I had forgotten about this photo taken during the filming of Rocky at the Main Street Gym in 1976. I believe I got it off the Rocky website some time ago. Mel is at the extreme left, wearing a white shirt, standing behind Jimmy Gambina, who is holding the white towel. Jimmy is the son of the late trainer Ralph Gambina. I'm standing nest to Mel but can't be seen. This scene was deleted from the movie.

During the filming of the movie, Burgess Meredith ate lunch with Mel and I. He was as down to earth as anyone could be. He picked Mel's brain as only a professional actor would do. He was researching while he was eating lunch. He was a pro. Now, a lot has been said over the years, about Burgess' Mickey being patterned after Howie Steindler, the owner of the Main Street Gym. I couldn't say. I see a lot of Mel Epstein in Mickey Goldmill.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 14:54
by kikibalt
Randyman wrote:My father, the late, great Andrew De La O. Somewhere in East L.A., sometime in the 1940's. I don't have any photos of my father fighting but he fought as a featherweight while in the Army. He was always very proud of that. It's through my father that I became a fan. To my father's way of thinking, it was the jab. Everything worked off the jab.The only thing he loved as much as boxing was baseball, or more specifically, the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Image
Randy, thats a great pic. of your dad, man I love those old B & W's.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 14:54
by Randyman
kikibalt wrote:For Diego

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu7EKXVTwK4
Jose Alfredo Jimenez & Amalia mendoza
:TU:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 14:56
by Randyman
kikibalt wrote:
Randyman wrote:My father, the late, great Andrew De La O. Somewhere in East L.A., sometime in the 1940's. I don't have any photos of my father fighting but he fought as a featherweight while in the Army. He was always very proud of that. It's through my father that I became a fan. To my father's way of thinking, it was the jab. Everything worked off the jab.The only thing he loved as much as boxing was baseball, or more specifically, the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Image
Randy, thats a great pic. of your dad, man I love those old B & W's.
Thanks Frank, I love those old Black and whites too.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 15:00
by Randyman
My wife has been sick for a couple of days. I let the dishes pile up. I'm going to do the right thing and do the dishes for her. I'm just trying to muster up the will. I might even do a little cleaning. Just not right now.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 15:11
by dagosd2000
kikibalt wrote:For Diego

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu7EKXVTwK4
Jose Alfredo Jimenez & Amalia mendoza
Maria came into the room while I was playing this. She says,"Gracias."

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 15:12
by dagosd2000
Randyman wrote:My wife has been sick for a couple of days. I let the dishes pile up. I'm going to do the right thing and do the dishes for her. I'm just trying to muster up the will. I might even do a little cleaning. Just not right now.

Good boy :TU:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 15:38
by kikibalt
dagosd2000 wrote:
Randyman wrote:My wife has been sick for a couple of days. I let the dishes pile up. I'm going to do the right thing and do the dishes for her. I'm just trying to muster up the will. I might even do a little cleaning. Just not right now.

Good boy :TU:
Randy, diego will come over and help you..... :lol: