BoxRec

Horse wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:eff me Horse, about 3 posts ago I was saying too much is made of that KD because it hoodwinked people into believing Fury was a vulnerable fighter. I don't think he is. You're such a touchy effing fanboy that you have to come running in to defend your hero against somebody not even really having a go. What's up with you? It was a proper knock down, not a flash KD or a slip. His shorts practically fell down! If he was chinny he would have gone over more than that in his career, wouldn't he? Go and pick an argument somewhere else.

I'm sick of that "hard knockdown" rubbish.
.

you're very easily nauseated. are you pregnant?

Also with regards to Joshua why is that people will state if say, a fighter has been inactive for x amount of months, its a big deal like its ages and ages? Yet Joshua has been a pro since 2013 and lets have it real, has only now in 4year later had a proper fight? And don't forget AJ isn't exactly "learning on the job" is he either, ABAE Super heavyweght Nov champ bk in 09, gold medalist at the box cup in the same year, gold medalist in 2012, an Am record of 40 wins and 3 losses so he has had quite a decorated amateur career so Joshua should be demonstrating better movement, better footwork, and he couldln't get into Klitscho at all for the first few rounds

Where is the feints in an AJ fight, I don't think he attempted to break Klitschko's great guard with a feint even once, when have you ever known Joshua to deliberately time an opponent, or blatantly see him use good footwork to get in and out of danger?

Joshua has just bulldozed plant pots most of his career and this showed vs Klitschko because he didn't have his usual "I am waiting to smash you to pieces" look about him and he couldln't get any decent work done and land shots on Klitschko using clever boxing so its also fair to say he is a bit one dimensional in the sense that if he can't box his way in he is going to be relatively hopeless until he can land that big shot, which if you are fighting a superior boxer, who you can't time, work out, or counter, i.e. Fury, that big shot might never come

I don't hate on Joshua at all, it is positive a big name from the UK is doing well at the sport and bringing recognition to it, its good to see him earning money but alot of his hype is still unwarranted. I genuinely respect his win on Sat, but he made a meal out of it, a real meal out of it, and to me for someone who is apparently so great and will end up better than Ali according to some, he shouldl've looked more at ease in there.

Joshua didn't have the biggest Am record but he hasn't had no amateur pedigree at all and he turned pro in 2013, clearly he is more of a cash cow than anything else, we'll see how confident Eddie is in him by how he matches him in his next fight, which is why I think AJ should leave Hearn tbh because if he got KOed Sat, Hearn wouldn't want to know to be fair, more couldl've bin done to match AJ better if people in his team thought he was going to be the greatest heavyweight in years

I know we are talking about two different fighters here but Eubank looking bad at times with barely no amateur pedigree whatsoever is understandable, but from an olympic gold medalist in AJ you'd expect better boxing out of him, he didn't look like he had much ideas at all Vs Klitschko which I suppose considering he still came through it you;ve got to hand it to him

I know the pro game is diff as well of course but still, pro or not, boxing is boxing

Oiky wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:
Not quite true. Fury throws a right left which Cunningham takes on the gloves, who then comes back with a left (misses) and Fury is then out of range. Fury throws a sloppy left which Cunningham gets over the top of with a big right and down he goes.

Hmm. Well, I still stand by the rest of what I said: that Fury had displayed boxing ability prior to the Cunningham fight but decided to not use any of it in his biggest fight to date, in America, against his most high profile opponent, and as a consequence everybody, including me, assumed he'd found his level and been exposed, and would get banged out when he stepped up. But he could fight a lot better than that, he was arseing around in there and assumed Cunningham couldn't hurt him, when of course he could.

Too much is made of the KD 100%, it was a complete flash knockdown and Fury was up on his feet with no trouble whatsoever.

People are now talking about Joshua, who has terrible recovery skills in my opinion, takes him a few rounds to get himself back together, saying "He isn't chinny", "yeah he got knocked down but he ground out the win" but they will harp on about Fury getting KD'd like it is a foregone conclusion he has a bad chin

The punch out put and the punches landed wasn't the best in the Klitschko-Fury fight but Fury definitely took some punches off Wlad where if he was "chinny" it wouldl've had him in serious trouble.

Think Cunningham was about 15stone for the Fury fight, yeah it ain't heavyweight, yeah Cunninghams a cruiser but a 15stone man still isn't a small man to get hit by. Whether Fury enjoyed a weight advantage or not you can't put muscles on the chin, you can't train a chain and Fury was caught cold, if his chin was that gammy it would of been all she wrote for him but it wasn't. People have said Klitschko is quite chinny, but look at that uppercut he took from Joshua, it did lead to the stoppage yes but if he was that much of a chinny fighter the uppercut wouldl've starched him there and then, plus he was fatigued by that point, so again I think the Fury is chinny talk is a load of sh*t from people who are still waiting for him to lose and hoping that he does get caught cold because its a foregone conclusion for them he'd be out of it

Fury wouldn't stand & trade with Wlad the way Joshua did, so perhaps he believes he's chinny even if you don't

I think the point you're missing Oiky is that whether he 'made a meal of it' or not, (some would say Joshua was involved in a fight of the year candidate against the most dominant heavyweight of the past decade and won), it was his nineteenth fight.

For comparison, at the same stage in his career Tyson Fury was fighting Vinny Maddalone, and it was a further three and a half years until Fury's signature win against Klitschko. Lets see where Joshua is down the road before jumping to conclusions.

'Fat Fury' has shown he can go twelve, but he's also not really come up with a decent reason for his outstanding drug test fail. I'd be waiting on that to clear before lauding his engine. And seriously, only someone trying to build negative points would be looking at a fight where a guy was able to knock his opponent down twice and stop him in the eleventh, having never gone past seven, and say his stamina is bad because he was breathing heavy.

Finally, regarding the idea that he got nothing from boxing against Wlad, and I know punch stats aren't the only way to read a fight, the fact remains that in the first four rounds Joshua threw more shots and landed more shots than his opponent. Not saying they weren't close or could be read either way but he was clearly competitive. And then in the fifth he drops him.

Oiky wrote:Also with regards to Joshua why is that people will state if say, a fighter has been inactive for x amount of months, its a big deal like its ages and ages? Yet Joshua has been a pro since 2013 and lets have it real, has only now in 4year later had a proper fight? And don't forget AJ isn't exactly "learning on the job" is he either, ABAE Super heavyweght Nov champ bk in 09, gold medalist at the box cup in the same year, gold medalist in 2012, an Am record of 40 wins and 3 losses so he has had quite a decorated amateur career so Joshua should be demonstrating better movement, better footwork, and he couldln't get into Klitscho at all for the first few rounds

Where is the feints in an AJ fight, I don't think he attempted to break Klitschko's great guard with a feint even once, when have you ever known Joshua to deliberately time an opponent, or blatantly see him use good footwork to get in and out of danger?

Joshua has just bulldozed plant pots most of his career and this showed vs Klitschko because he didn't have his usual "I am waiting to smash you to pieces" look about him and he couldln't get any decent work done and land shots on Klitschko using clever boxing so its also fair to say he is a bit one dimensional in the sense that if he can't box his way in he is going to be relatively hopeless until he can land that big shot, which if you are fighting a superior boxer, who you can't time, work out, or counter, i.e. Fury, that big shot might never come

I don't hate on Joshua at all, it is positive a big name from the UK is doing well at the sport and bringing recognition to it, its good to see him earning money but alot of his hype is still unwarranted. I genuinely respect his win on Sat, but he made a meal out of it, a real meal out of it, and to me for someone who is apparently so great and will end up better than Ali according to some, he shouldl've looked more at ease in there.

Joshua didn't have the biggest Am record but he hasn't had no amateur pedigree at all and he turned pro in 2013, clearly he is more of a cash cow than anything else, we'll see how confident Eddie is in him by how he matches him in his next fight, which is why I think AJ should leave Hearn tbh because if he got KOed Sat, Hearn wouldn't want to know to be fair, more couldl've bin done to match AJ better if people in his team thought he was going to be the greatest heavyweight in years

I know we are talking about two different fighters here but Eubank looking bad at times with barely no amateur pedigree whatsoever is understandable, but from an olympic gold medalist in AJ you'd expect better boxing out of him, he didn't look like he had much ideas at all Vs Klitschko which I suppose considering he still came through it you;ve got to hand it to him

I know the pro game is diff as well of course but still, pro or not, boxing is boxing

Hearn had enough confidence to offer him a fight with Wlad after 18 fights. They could have turned it down and no one think anything less of him at this stage but him and more importantly Rob Mcracken were more than willing and it was entirely justified on Saturday.

Not sure how the matchmaking gets criticism tbh, he's got a perfect record and is the #1 draw in the division after 19 fights. Who should he have fought?

Oiky wrote:Not really

Because Fury got up and was okay. What signs did he show that in future fights he could be vulnerable after a knockdown if somebody jumped all over him?

Joshua however got knocked down and showed signs that if somebody can stick on him then he will more than likely be stopped on his feet or KOed. He was puffing heavily, his legs were weak, he even put his head down and walked almost into Klitschko's stomach for no reason whatsoever at one point, but despite all this and despite the great shape Klitschko was in he just didn't get the job done

Yes who is there at the moment to finish the job on Joshua many ask, and quite righty so, I can't answer that, but the point is to me Joshua showed vulnerabitlies that Tyson has never shown

Joshua will get better from here many are saying - Good and fair point - But alot of the vulnerabilites he shown can't be improved upon imo

Joshua may well improve the fact that he rarely moves his head, he comes forward in straight lines making him susceptible to big shots, he may well improve his lateral movement, but for me his recovery and falling to sh*t when he gets his is something he can't improve imo and it will cost him, yeah people will say "doesn't something cost all fighters in the end" but I think even in a weak HW div someone who stuck on Joshua if they caught him would win.

His stamina is bad as well, he needs to work on that, Wlad had clearly trained and conditioned himself for a 12round boxing match which he done as best as he can do at the age of 41, Joshua trained for God knows what? He didn't do much of anything and then when he did come out like a bull in a china shop he was blowing like a steam train and then went back to not doing much of anything until he regained himself and then his next burst he was f*cked again. "Fat Fury" has shown when he comes to fight he can do 12rnds without gassing, Fury can be low output at times but when he does put a few shots together he doesn't blow like a smoker afterwards

I think far too much is made of Joshua's stamina. You really think he was gassed going into the 6th/7th? Are you not a little surprised that he wasn't that gassed going into the 7th against Whyte or Breazeale, despite having a similar punch volume?

Or do you think it is more likely that Joshua shipped 1-2 unnecessary big punches, which took a heavy toll on him? I don't think this had anything to do with his engine, or his cardiovascular capabilities, and instead it was purely down to having his brain re-arranged, and his powers of recovery. Perhaps anyone else in the division took the same punch, they'd be out for the count indefinitely.

Joshua's main vulnerabilities at the moment are his experience, which will continue to improve over time. Joshua made the same mistake Bellew did after it was clear that Haye had sustained a serious injury. He went after Wlad to finish the job. Granted he should have done after sending him down in the 5th, but it was not in a controlled manner at all, and in the process of chasing Wlad, like a bull, he punched himself out and shipped a few heavy punches, thus swinging the pendulum back towards Wlad.

There is no doubt Joshua has the capabilities to go 12 hard rounds, as he came back and recovered his punch output in the final few rounds of the fight and won in very convincing style. My question is, can Fury go 12 hard rounds?

Rob3_142 wrote:

Oiky wrote:Not really

Because Fury got up and was okay. What signs did he show that in future fights he could be vulnerable after a knockdown if somebody jumped all over him?

Joshua however got knocked down and showed signs that if somebody can stick on him then he will more than likely be stopped on his feet or KOed. He was puffing heavily, his legs were weak, he even put his head down and walked almost into Klitschko's stomach for no reason whatsoever at one point, but despite all this and despite the great shape Klitschko was in he just didn't get the job done

Yes who is there at the moment to finish the job on Joshua many ask, and quite righty so, I can't answer that, but the point is to me Joshua showed vulnerabitlies that Tyson has never shown

Joshua will get better from here many are saying - Good and fair point - But alot of the vulnerabilites he shown can't be improved upon imo

Joshua may well improve the fact that he rarely moves his head, he comes forward in straight lines making him susceptible to big shots, he may well improve his lateral movement, but for me his recovery and falling to sh*t when he gets his is something he can't improve imo and it will cost him, yeah people will say "doesn't something cost all fighters in the end" but I think even in a weak HW div someone who stuck on Joshua if they caught him would win.

His stamina is bad as well, he needs to work on that, Wlad had clearly trained and conditioned himself for a 12round boxing match which he done as best as he can do at the age of 41, Joshua trained for God knows what? He didn't do much of anything and then when he did come out like a bull in a china shop he was blowing like a steam train and then went back to not doing much of anything until he regained himself and then his next burst he was f*cked again. "Fat Fury" has shown when he comes to fight he can do 12rnds without gassing, Fury can be low output at times but when he does put a few shots together he doesn't blow like a smoker afterwards

I think far too much is made of Joshua's stamina. You really think he was gassed going into the 6th/7th? Are you not a little surprised that he wasn't that gassed going into the 7th against Whyte or Breazeale, despite having a similar punch volume?

Or do you think it is more likely that Joshua shipped 1-2 unnecessary big punches, which took a heavy toll on him? I don't think this had anything to do with his engine, or his cardiovascular capabilities, and instead it was purely down to having his brain re-arranged, and his powers of recovery. Perhaps anyone else in the division took the same punch, they'd be out for the count indefinitely.

Joshua's main vulnerabilities at the moment are his experience, which will continue to improve over time. Joshua made the same mistake Bellew did after it was clear that Haye had sustained a serious injury. He went after Wlad to finish the job. Granted he should have done after sending him down in the 5th, but it was not in a controlled manner at all, and in the process of chasing Wlad, like a bull, he punched himself out and shipped a few heavy punches, thus swinging the pendulum back towards Wlad.

There is no doubt Joshua has the capabilities to go 12 hard rounds, as he came back and recovered his punch output in the final few rounds of the fight and won in very convincing style. My question is, can Fury go 12 hard rounds?

Good post.

After having viewed it a second time I don't think that Joshua was as gassed in the 5th as he walked on to a few hard shots that rocked him. He also seemed less gassed to me than hurt in the sixth, and he was gathering for the stretch run in the 7th and 8th, in much better control of himself than I was thinking in realtime.

Rob3_142 wrote:I think far too much is made of Joshua's stamina. You really think he was gassed going into the 6th/7th? Are you not a little surprised that he wasn't that gassed going into the 7th against Whyte or Breazeale, despite having a similar punch volume?

Or do you think it is more likely that Joshua shipped 1-2 unnecessary big punches, which took a heavy toll on him? I don't think this had anything to do with his engine, or his cardiovascular capabilities, and instead it was purely down to having his brain re-arranged, and his powers of recovery. Perhaps anyone else in the division took the same punch, they'd be out for the count indefinitely.

Joshua's main vulnerabilities at the moment are his experience, which will continue to improve over time. Joshua made the same mistake Bellew did after it was clear that Haye had sustained a serious injury. He went after Wlad to finish the job. Granted he should have done after sending him down in the 5th, but it was not in a controlled manner at all, and in the process of chasing Wlad, like a bull, he punched himself out and shipped a few heavy punches, thus swinging the pendulum back towards Wlad.

There is no doubt Joshua has the capabilities to go 12 hard rounds, as he came back and recovered his punch output in the final few rounds of the fight and won in very convincing style. My question is, can Fury go 12 hard rounds?

Joshua was gassed against Whyte and required a second wind in that fight as well.

His stamina looks very suspect.

Oiky wrote:Also with regards to Joshua why is that people will state if say, a fighter has been inactive for x amount of months, its a big deal like its ages and ages? Yet Joshua has been a pro since 2013 and lets have it real, has only now in 4year later had a proper fight? And don't forget AJ isn't exactly "learning on the job" is he either, ABAE Super heavyweght Nov champ bk in 09, gold medalist at the box cup in the same year, gold medalist in 2012, an Am record of 40 wins and 3 losses so he has had quite a decorated amateur career so Joshua should be demonstrating better movement, better footwork, and he couldln't get into Klitscho at all for the first few rounds

Where is the feints in an AJ fight, I don't think he attempted to break Klitschko's great guard with a feint even once, when have you ever known Joshua to deliberately time an opponent, or blatantly see him use good footwork to get in and out of danger?

Joshua has just bulldozed plant pots most of his career and this showed vs Klitschko because he didn't have his usual "I am waiting to smash you to pieces" look about him and he couldln't get any decent work done and land shots on Klitschko using clever boxing so its also fair to say he is a bit one dimensional in the sense that if he can't box his way in he is going to be relatively hopeless until he can land that big shot, which if you are fighting a superior boxer, who you can't time, work out, or counter, i.e. Fury, that big shot might never come

I don't hate on Joshua at all, it is positive a big name from the UK is doing well at the sport and bringing recognition to it, its good to see him earning money but alot of his hype is still unwarranted. I genuinely respect his win on Sat, but he made a meal out of it, a real meal out of it, and to me for someone who is apparently so great and will end up better than Ali according to some, he shouldl've looked more at ease in there.

Joshua didn't have the biggest Am record but he hasn't had no amateur pedigree at all and he turned pro in 2013, clearly he is more of a cash cow than anything else, we'll see how confident Eddie is in him by how he matches him in his next fight, which is why I think AJ should leave Hearn tbh because if he got KOed Sat, Hearn wouldn't want to know to be fair, more couldl've bin done to match AJ better if people in his team thought he was going to be the greatest heavyweight in years

I know we are talking about two different fighters here but Eubank looking bad at times with barely no amateur pedigree whatsoever is understandable, but from an olympic gold medalist in AJ you'd expect better boxing out of him, he didn't look like he had much ideas at all Vs Klitschko which I suppose considering he still came through it you;ve got to hand it to him

I know the pro game is diff as well of course but still, pro or not, boxing is boxing

Your points lack any logic at all, and your criticism of his team and/or his promotion team are completely unfounded.

Bulldosing past plant pots is part of every boxers early development. Joshua did it, Fury did it, Klitschko did it, Wilder is still doing it, Dubois is doing it right now. Joshua made a very sensible and logical step up in levels of opposition from around his 13th fight onward. Commonwealth, British, World going into his 16th fight is phenomenal. Granted it was against an arguably terrible opponent in Martin, which was followed by two 'world level' learning fights. To then step up against an elite operator in his 19th fight is again phenomenal. People wanted Joshua to be tested, that is exactly what happened. Was it a risk? 100%. Was it too early? 100%. Did he get the win? Yes. Oh and by the way, 40 amateur fights is not extensive. The likes of Golovkin, had 345 amateur fights before becoming a pro.

Joshua is so far doing all the right things. Taking this fight exposed a lot of Joshua's failings, whilst not damaging his record, or money making potential. I feel you're far to concerned with what is going on with the hype or Joshua's role in the Matchroom train. It's fair to criticise his performance, and/or his opponents, but only where the criticism is valid. So far his line up of opposition has been textbook, and while his last performance was full of flaws, he also demonstrated a lot of things which we didn't know before, like heart, chin,and will to win. His footwork was okay, not perfect, but he was able to move through the ranges quickly. His lack of concentration meant that Joshua was getting hit too easily, putting him back on the back foot for several rounds.

Right now I'd back Joshua to get the win against Fury, but in 3-4 fights time, even the best Fury might not be able to deal with him.

Horse wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:I think far too much is made of Joshua's stamina. You really think he was gassed going into the 6th/7th? Are you not a little surprised that he wasn't that gassed going into the 7th against Whyte or Breazeale, despite having a similar punch volume?

Or do you think it is more likely that Joshua shipped 1-2 unnecessary big punches, which took a heavy toll on him? I don't think this had anything to do with his engine, or his cardiovascular capabilities, and instead it was purely down to having his brain re-arranged, and his powers of recovery. Perhaps anyone else in the division took the same punch, they'd be out for the count indefinitely.

Joshua's main vulnerabilities at the moment are his experience, which will continue to improve over time. Joshua made the same mistake Bellew did after it was clear that Haye had sustained a serious injury. He went after Wlad to finish the job. Granted he should have done after sending him down in the 5th, but it was not in a controlled manner at all, and in the process of chasing Wlad, like a bull, he punched himself out and shipped a few heavy punches, thus swinging the pendulum back towards Wlad.

There is no doubt Joshua has the capabilities to go 12 hard rounds, as he came back and recovered his punch output in the final few rounds of the fight and won in very convincing style. My question is, can Fury go 12 hard rounds?

Joshua was gassed against Whyte and required a second wind in that fight as well.

His stamina looks very suspect.

To suggest that Joshua was gassed in the second round of a fight is absurd. Your comments lack merit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Rob3_142 wrote:To suggest that Joshua was gassed in the second round of a fight is absurd. Your comments lack merit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I didn't even say that though did I?

Rob3_142 wrote:

Oiky wrote:Also with regards to Joshua why is that people will state if say, a fighter has been inactive for x amount of months, its a big deal like its ages and ages? Yet Joshua has been a pro since 2013 and lets have it real, has only now in 4year later had a proper fight? And don't forget AJ isn't exactly "learning on the job" is he either, ABAE Super heavyweght Nov champ bk in 09, gold medalist at the box cup in the same year, gold medalist in 2012, an Am record of 40 wins and 3 losses so he has had quite a decorated amateur career so Joshua should be demonstrating better movement, better footwork, and he couldln't get into Klitscho at all for the first few rounds

Where is the feints in an AJ fight, I don't think he attempted to break Klitschko's great guard with a feint even once, when have you ever known Joshua to deliberately time an opponent, or blatantly see him use good footwork to get in and out of danger?

Joshua has just bulldozed plant pots most of his career and this showed vs Klitschko because he didn't have his usual "I am waiting to smash you to pieces" look about him and he couldln't get any decent work done and land shots on Klitschko using clever boxing so its also fair to say he is a bit one dimensional in the sense that if he can't box his way in he is going to be relatively hopeless until he can land that big shot, which if you are fighting a superior boxer, who you can't time, work out, or counter, i.e. Fury, that big shot might never come

I don't hate on Joshua at all, it is positive a big name from the UK is doing well at the sport and bringing recognition to it, its good to see him earning money but alot of his hype is still unwarranted. I genuinely respect his win on Sat, but he made a meal out of it, a real meal out of it, and to me for someone who is apparently so great and will end up better than Ali according to some, he shouldl've looked more at ease in there.

Joshua didn't have the biggest Am record but he hasn't had no amateur pedigree at all and he turned pro in 2013, clearly he is more of a cash cow than anything else, we'll see how confident Eddie is in him by how he matches him in his next fight, which is why I think AJ should leave Hearn tbh because if he got KOed Sat, Hearn wouldn't want to know to be fair, more couldl've bin done to match AJ better if people in his team thought he was going to be the greatest heavyweight in years

I know we are talking about two different fighters here but Eubank looking bad at times with barely no amateur pedigree whatsoever is understandable, but from an olympic gold medalist in AJ you'd expect better boxing out of him, he didn't look like he had much ideas at all Vs Klitschko which I suppose considering he still came through it you;ve got to hand it to him

I know the pro game is diff as well of course but still, pro or not, boxing is boxing

Your points lack any logic at all, and your criticism of his team and/or his promotion team are completely unfounded.

Bulldosing past plant pots is part of every boxers early development. Joshua did it, Fury did it, Klitschko did it, Wilder is still doing it, Dubois is doing it right now. Joshua made a very sensible and logical step up in levels of opposition from around his 13th fight onward. Commonwealth, British, World going into his 16th fight is phenomenal. Granted it was against an arguably terrible opponent in Martin, which was followed by two 'world level' learning fights. To then step up against an elite operator in his 19th fight is again phenomenal. People wanted Joshua to be tested, that is exactly what happened. Was it a risk? 100%. Was it too early? 100%. Did he get the win? Yes. Oh and by the way, 40 amateur fights is not extensive. The likes of Golovkin, had 345 amateur fights before becoming a pro.

Joshua is so far doing all the right things. Taking this fight exposed a lot of Joshua's failings, whilst not damaging his record, or money making potential. I feel you're far to concerned with what is going on with the hype or Joshua's role in the Matchroom train. It's fair to criticise his performance, and/or his opponents, but only where the criticism is valid. So far his line up of opposition has been textbook, and while his last performance was full of flaws, he also demonstrated a lot of things which we didn't know before, like heart, chin,and will to win. His footwork was okay, not perfect, but he was able to move through the ranges quickly. His lack of concentration meant that Joshua was getting hit too easily, putting him back on the back foot for several rounds.

Right now I'd back Joshua to get the win against Fury, but in 3-4 fights time, even the best Fury might not be able to deal with him.

The Martin fight doesn't even bear thinking or talking about. What an embarassment. Martin came to lay down, he had no fight in him at all. I can handle a boxers early devlopment fights being bad when people aren't talking about him like he's the second coming of Ali for no reason. I know 40 am fights isn't extensive, I'm well aware of how many Am fights the likes of Golovkin had, I'm just stating people seem to excuse Joshuas bad fundamentals and basics when Joshua has had am exp and accolades in the am boxing world so imo I think they shouldln't be as bad as what they are

I'm not concerned with the hype at all I just think its silly because he is clearly beatable, he is not the big machine everyone thought he was, I've already given him credit for his win we all know he showed heart we all know he showed grit whatever you wanna say and all the rest of it but bottom line is I don't think he is as good as what people reckon he is. Lack of concentration maybe, I'd say total lack of headmovement, and why in your first fight with a live opponent would you show a lack of concentration anyway?

Joshua may well beat Fury, its boxing, anything can happen, but my betting slip will say Tyson fury and that will never change, even if Josh has 2 fights and shows improvements it will not change as alot on here wont change their minds about joshua beating fury

I thought Joshua looked like he'd improved alot in the iFL TV vid (yes its only a traning vid dont take too much from it and all that) but obviously not. maybe he struggles to translate things into fights, looks like it to me

Horse wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:To suggest that Joshua was gassed in the second round of a fight is absurd. Your comments lack merit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I didn't even say that though did I?

Horse wrote:Joshua was gassed against Whyte

You did.

Oiky, the amazing thing is that you seem to be the only person who is viewing Joshua's performance against Wlad as something approaching terrible. 'I'll never change my view that Fury beats him' is crazy. To repeat, at this stage of his career Fury was fighting Vinny Maddalone.

Rob3_142 wrote:

Horse wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:To suggest that Joshua was gassed in the second round of a fight is absurd. Your comments lack merit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I didn't even say that though did I?

Horse wrote:Joshua was gassed against Whyte

You did.

Your comment was that horse said he was gassed IN THE SECOND ROUND

You obviously misread his use of the phrase 'second wind'

Oiky wrote:clearly he is more of a cash cow than anything else, we'll see how confident Eddie is in him by how he matches him in his next fight

I think Eddie's shown enough confidence in AJ by throwing him in with Wlad in his 19th fight. Do the waters really get much deeper? Both AJ and Eddie seem happy to give Wlad the rematch, who else out there would be considered a more dangerous fight? Bear in mind that Fury isn't ready to fight. Windmilling Wilder? Ortiz that went 7 with Dave Allen? Parker that scraped past Ruiz? I can't see either Joshua or Hearn lacking confidence to fight any of those guys when he's just overcame Klitschko.

Christ I missed the cash cow comment. That's surely been said by someone who simply doesn't know what a cash cow is.

Oiky wrote:Your points lack any logic at all, and your criticism of his team and/or his promotion team are completely unfounded.

Bulldosing past plant pots is part of every boxers early development. Joshua did it, Fury did it, Klitschko did it, Wilder is still doing it, Dubois is doing it right now. Joshua made a very sensible and logical step up in levels of opposition from around his 13th fight onward. Commonwealth, British, World going into his 16th fight is phenomenal. Granted it was against an arguably terrible opponent in Martin, which was followed by two 'world level' learning fights. To then step up against an elite operator in his 19th fight is again phenomenal. People wanted Joshua to be tested, that is exactly what happened. Was it a risk? 100%. Was it too early? 100%. Did he get the win? Yes. Oh and by the way, 40 amateur fights is not extensive. The likes of Golovkin, had 345 amateur fights before becoming a pro.

Joshua is so far doing all the right things. Taking this fight exposed a lot of Joshua's failings, whilst not damaging his record, or money making potential. I feel you're far to concerned with what is going on with the hype or Joshua's role in the Matchroom train. It's fair to criticise his performance, and/or his opponents, but only where the criticism is valid. So far his line up of opposition has been textbook, and while his last performance was full of flaws, he also demonstrated a lot of things which we didn't know before, like heart, chin,and will to win. His footwork was okay, not perfect, but he was able to move through the ranges quickly. His lack of concentration meant that Joshua was getting hit too easily, putting him back on the back foot for several rounds.

Right now I'd back Joshua to get the win against Fury, but in 3-4 fights time, even the best Fury might not be able to deal with him.

The Martin fight doesn't even bear thinking or talking about. What an embarassment. Martin came to lay down, he had no fight in him at all. I can handle a boxers early devlopment fights being bad when people aren't talking about him like he's the second coming of Ali for no reason. I know 40 am fights isn't extensive, I'm well aware of how many Am fights the likes of Golovkin had, I'm just stating people seem to excuse Joshuas bad fundamentals and basics when Joshua has had am exp and accolades in the am boxing world so imo I think they shouldln't be as bad as what they are

I'm not concerned with the hype at all I just think its silly because he is clearly beatable, he is not the big machine everyone thought he was, I've already given him credit for his win we all know he showed heart we all know he showed grit whatever you wanna say and all the rest of it but bottom line is I don't think he is as good as what people reckon he is. Lack of concentration maybe, I'd say total lack of headmovement, and why in your first fight with a live opponent would you show a lack of concentration anyway?

Joshua may well beat Fury, its boxing, anything can happen, but my betting slip will say Tyson fury and that will never change, even if Josh has 2 fights and shows improvements it will not change as alot on here wont change their minds about joshua beating fury

I thought Joshua looked like he'd improved alot in the iFL TV vid (yes its only a traning vid dont take too much from it and all that) but obviously not. maybe he struggles to translate things into fights, looks like it to me[/quote]

I think you are concerned about the hype, you've mentioned it on countless occasions. As actual boxing fans, we should be able to see Joshua's boxing for what it is. The causal audience may well compare Joshua to Ali, but what do they know? We should be able to look past that and be a little more objective. We know Joshua wouldn't be in the ATG top 50 at the moment, but not to say he won't.

As far as the Martin fight goes, who would you actually direct criticism to? If anywhere, it would be direct towards the IBF. Firstly for stripping Fury of the title, and then secondly making Martin and Glazkov shoot out for the belt. Who would genuinely criticise Joshua for taking an early world title shot? We'd all do the exact same thing.

I think your belief that Joshua 'lacks the fundamentals' is extremely unfair. Joshua displays the skill level, and perhaps higher, for a fighter that has less than 60 am/pro fights under his belt. Compared to his performances in the Olympics, and his first 5 pro fights, you should be able to identify a vast array of technical improvements. But no amount of training or low level 'learning fights' will prepare you for fighting one of the greatest heavyweights of a generation in front of 90,000 people. Joshua's lack of concentration, I suspect, will come from his lack of experience. When Wlad went down the first time, he was celebrating! He thought it was done. What you think his reaction would be if you told him, 'AJ, this fight is just about to go another 6 rounds...' I can imagine it would be a look of bemusement. He went in there to finish his man, and got caught cold whilst he was mentally preparing his victory speech. As I have said before, he'll take a lot more away from this fight mentally and experience wise than he will financially.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

Horse wrote:I didn't even say that though did I?

Horse wrote:Joshua was gassed against Whyte

You did.

Your comment was that horse said he was gassed IN THE SECOND ROUND

You obviously misread his use of the phrase 'second wind'

Do you think he needed a second wind because he was gassed? Or because he wore a right hand from Whyte in the second round? It is nothing to do with his stamina.

Being repeated 10pm on SS1 for those who didnt know.

Go Faster Stripes wrote:Being repeated 10pm on SS1 for those who didnt know.

This is bizarre. They didn't replay the Molina fight until fight week of the Klitschko fight.

Rob3_142 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:


You did.

Your comment was that horse said he was gassed IN THE SECOND ROUND

You obviously misread his use of the phrase 'second wind'

Do you think he needed a second wind because he was gassed? Or because he wore a right hand from Whyte in the second round? It is nothing to do with his stamina.

It was a great shot that Whyte landed on Joshua too, he did well to stay on his feet.

wesshaw1985 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_pJI8A0RMc

Amazingly I watched 15 minutes of that shite before turning it in. So Kugan wasn't allowed ringside but was allowed in the press area and was given two tickets (presumably the best available public seating) and, because of this, publically insulted Bonte in a very childish manner and appears to be self righteously angry in this video with Hearn.

Is he an idiot or something? Does he know how badly some people wanted to be there, even up in the nosebleed seats, and couldn't get in? The lad's clearly lost it. IFL are just boxing fans with cameras and although they've done well are easily replaceable. It's not like they're particularly talented.

wesshaw1985 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_pJI8A0RMc

Fair play to Hearn, think he comes across really well there.

Kugan though, he really does come across as a moron. What did he think the appropriate resolution was going to be? Hearn telling Bonte to shove it, thus putting one of the biggest promotions in the history of British boxing in jeopardy, and any future rematches?