BoxRec

Let me begin by saying that I only saw him fight in PPV fights in the later stage of his career - and he lost everytime I saw him.

Still, I am amazed. Here is a guy who had only 31 fights in his entire career. In looking at his record, the only win that he had that I find really impressive is Winky Wright. He only won 26 fights in his entire career.

He lost to both of his local, SoCal rivals (ODLH and SSM - 2 times). Unlike ODLH and SSM, he didn't take care of his physical condition, putting on a lot of weight between fights.

He played up this Aztec Warrior routine beautifully even though he was born hundreds of miles from Mexico.

I can't think of any other boxer who was so popular, made so much money and did so little.

Can anyone explain his popularity?

I think you answered your own question to some degree. The image he portrayed was a popular one, and he did get a reputation of being somewhat fearless.

As an 16-18yr. old amateur prodigy he was almost unstoppable in his weight-class. When I would look at the amateur shows on television they would make more mention of Vargas than DLH because of the age I think. In my opinion people are more enamored with champions who are young. Tyson is a perfect example one of the reasons he has captured our imaginations is the age factor. Here is this 18 yr kid fighting and beating all of these grown 28-29 yr old men. Sanchez 22yrs old and already considered one of the p4p best ever. I remember David Reid and him on a collision course at like 8 fights a piece. Talk about them taking on these champions like it was easypickins. It was the Kentucky Derby between the Olympians to see not only who could become champion quicker but who could become the best in the world...ever not only in their eyes but in the fans as well.

His fame came with him from the amateur ranks and stayed with him through the professional ranks because of hope. After the Trinidad fight he was considered a blood and guts warrior and the rest is history. He also had a great promotional company in Main Events who marketed him the right way. How can you lose with Team Duva on your side!

(One fight for example that left me thinking of the possiblities this kid has in his future was when he at 16 yrs old he fought the defending champion who was 25 at the time, Detris Biagas and he just dominated him.)

TigerMoth wrote: Here is a guy who had only 31 fights in his entire career. In looking at his record, the only win that he had that I find really impressive is Winky Wright. He only won 26 fights in his entire career.

He lost to both of his local, SoCal rivals (ODLH and SSM - 2 times). Unlike ODLH and SSM, he didn't take care of his physical condition, putting on a lot of weight between fights.

He played up this Aztec Warrior routine beautifully even though he was born hundreds of miles from Mexico.

I can't think of any other boxer who was so popular, made so much money and did so little.

Can anyone explain his popularity?

- Need to look closer at his record. Barely a week after his 19th birthday he beats HOFer Yoriboy Campos for his first title, and before his 20th birthday he's notched 3 defenses, including the scalps of era champs Marquez and Wright. Follows that up with a win over Quartey, and before his 21st birthday finally falling in a blood and guts classic against Tito.

That's an outstanding record that precious few 19-20 yr olds can match. Don't know how much you know about Mexican American culture, but the Aztec Warrior is the popular mythical figure that most of the men hold to, Vargas much more so than Oscar who was more of a Latina phenomenom than Latino in the beginning. Vargas was the standard bearer in attitude and potential that the culture embraced throughout the southwestern US, esp the young males.

It was not an act either, Vargas was brutally honest in his portrayal of the culture much to his detriment later in his career. He was capable of beautiful boxing for example, which he usually abandoned for a mano a mano style. He had health problems that further limited his career, the bad back and some sort of hormonal imbalance that starts to see him spike massively in weight, further exacerbating the back problem.

The guy could've easily moved up to middle/super mid and extended his career as a boxer/puncher, but instead chose, stupidly IMO, to stayed squeezed in a gravely weakened state at 154 where he manages to outlast another HOFer, Castillejo, before falling to Mosley in another set of blood and guts classics. His last defeat to Mayorga had to be renegotiated twice because of weight problems and finally fought with Vargas shrunk down to 164.

His last 3 fights weren't mega fights, but were extremely lucrative by any measure. Be interesting to see if he makes the retirement stick. If he gets proper business managers to handle his local businesses, he should be set for life as a local legend much like Joe Jeannette was.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see an attempted comeback, though I doubt he could go below LH. I presume his health problems would quickly abort any attempt..

[quote="BroughtonRulesRefuge"][quote="TigerMoth"]
Here is a guy who had only 31 fights in his entire career. In looking at his record, the only win that he had that I find really impressive is Winky Wright. He only won 26 fights in his entire career.

He lost to both of his local, SoCal rivals (ODLH and SSM - 2 times). Unlike ODLH and SSM, he didn't take care of his physical condition, putting on a lot of weight between fights.

He played up this Aztec Warrior routine beautifully even though he was born hundreds of miles from Mexico.

I can't think of any other boxer who was so popular, made so much money and did so little.

Can anyone explain his popularity?[/quote]

- Need to look closer at his record. Barely a week after his 19th birthday he beats HOFer Yoriboy Campos for his first title, and before his 20th birthday he's notched 3 defenses, including the scalps of era champs Marquez and Wright. Follows that up with a win over Quartey, and before his 21st birthday finally falling in a blood and guts classic against Tito.

That's an outstanding record that precious few 19-20 yr olds can match. Don't know how much you know about Mexican American culture, but the Aztec Warrior is the popular mythical figure that most of the men hold to, Vargas much more so than Oscar who was more of a Latina phenomenom than Latino in the beginning. Vargas was the standard bearer in attitude and potential that the culture embraced throughout the southwestern US, esp the young males.

It was not an act either, Vargas was brutally honest in his portrayal of the culture much to his detriment later in his career. He was capable of beautiful boxing for example, which he usually abandoned for a mano a mano style. He had health problems that further limited his career, the bad back and some sort of hormonal imbalance that starts to see him spike massively in weight, further exacerbating the back problem.

The guy could've easily moved up to middle/super mid and extended his career as a boxer/puncher, but instead chose, stupidly IMO, to stayed squeezed in a gravely weakened state at 154 where he manages to outlast another HOFer, Castillejo, before falling to Mosley in another set of blood and guts classics. His last defeat to Mayorga had to be renegotiated twice because of weight problems and finally fought with Vargas shrunk down to 164.

His last 3 fights weren't mega fights, but were extremely lucrative by any measure. Be interesting to see if he makes the retirement stick. If he gets proper business managers to handle his local businesses, he should be set for life as a local legend much like Joe Jeannette was.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see an attempted comeback, though I doubt he could go below LH. I presume his health problems would quickly abort any attempt..[/quote]

Nice explanation - thanks

Yory-Boy Campas and Javier Castillejo in the HOF???

dempseyfire wrote:Yory-Boy Campas and Javier Castillejo in the HOF???

- Here's a little project for you to go kick that single brain cell 'round ye aulde bucket with a hole in it.

How many HOFers did Sugar Ramos and Edwin Rosario beat? Take as long as you wish...... 8)

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Yory-Boy Campas and Javier Castillejo in the HOF???

- Here's a little project for you to go kick that single brain cell 'round ye aulde bucket with a hole in it.

How many HOFers did Sugar Ramos and Edwin Rosario beat? Take as long as you wish...... 8)

Who cares? I wouldn't place Rosario in the HOF either but they both beat better comp and were clearly better fighters than Campas, whose claim to fame is beating Raul Marquez for the paper IBF 154 title, who himself won the vacant belt vs journyeman Anthony Stephens.

Campas earned his keep by being a whipping boy with a good looking record for every world class fighter he ever faced.

Fernando Vargas is from Colonia, a comparatively poor and rough barrio located in Oxnard, California, a city with a huge number of people who are Latinos. Add to the fact that as someone who apparently took pride being a "homie" and was a game, exciting fighter at his best, Vargas had a large fan base which didn't like Oscar De La Hoya.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:Fernando Vargas is from Colonia, a comparatively poor and rough barrio located in Oxnard, California, a city with a huge number of people who are Latinos. Add to the fact that as someone who apparently took pride being a "homie" and was a game, exciting fighter at his best, Vargas had a large fan base which didn't like Oscar De La Hoya.

- Chuck Johnston

Yeah, much of his popularity came from people who didn't like De La Hoya latching onto him, on top of the fact that he was a prodigious fighter who was fun to watch as he would beat and beat up highly ranked opposition. De La Hoya was seen as a pretty Golden Boy, Vargas as a street-smart homeboy. De La Hoya was the good looking ladies man who didn't wanna get his pretty face scuffed, while Vargas was the guy who wanted to tear your head off and talk to it, even if he had to take shots to do it. De La Hoya was thought to have disrespected and battered a sliding Chavez, while Vargas was a good friend of Chavez and Julio directly backed him up as a supporter. De La Hoya was seen as more of an American who happened to be of Mexican descent, while Vargas was seen as a MEXICAN-American. De La Hoya "ran" from Trinidad when they fought and lost on points because of it, while Vargas went blow-4-blow with Tito and eventually got worn down and stopped on his shield.

Vargas was essentially the anti-De La Hoya, a mean rough ghetto child who stormed his way out of the poor Barrios and never "forgot where he came from", not to say that DLH did, but perception is reality, and plenty of people saw in Vargas the kind of rough, tough, Machismo-filled Hispanic fighter that Oscar was not perceived to be.

dempseyfire wrote:Yory-Boy Campas and Javier Castillejo in the HOF???

Who said that? Let me guess. It was either BRR or DaveV and as DaveV is in hiding I guess it was BRR.

Do you reckon he has seen Campas fight or is just going off his numbers???

Fernando Vargas now lives in a gated area in Camarillo, California and it appears that he has invested in his money wisely. In other words, he may be putting his family first.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:Fernando Vargas now lives in a gated area in Camarillo, California and it appears that he has invested in his money wisely. In other words, he may be putting his family first.

- Chuck Johnston

Well before the Mayorga fight he had insisted that win or lose that was his final fight. He made $15M+ for that fight and on top of that has invested intelligently like you said, so he's free to enjoy his life without much money worries. I wouldn't mind seeing him in more movies, I thought he played his role "Tico" well in Alpha Dog.

As much as I disliked him, he did have plenty of guts. Good luck to him

boys the reason that he is so so popular is that he is sexy man, and nobody over here can handle him

never liked him - didnt think he was such a great fighter - didnt find him sexy either!

cherrie wrote:boys the reason that he is so so popular is that he is sexy man, and nobody over here can handle him

End of thread.

It was his greatness that made him popular. At age 19, he was as focused and talented as any fighter in the world. But then, money got to his head, he had a few troubles with the law, and he started fading. Young, very young. He bought a giant limousine with tiger-print upholstery and a bathtub in the back. He lost his focus, he didn't bring his greatness to his great opponents, and he lost.

always came across as a fat prick to me who got knocked out in his biggest fights.

however, he probably got a lot of smypathy due to Tito weakening him with below the border shots.

words that do not go together...VARGAS and GREATNESS

yeah, never mind campas and greatness, and castillejo and greatness

harrygreb wrote:words that do not go together...VARGAS and GREATNESS

He had incredible potential. He simply didn't realize it.

nor did we

the last time i saw vargas on tv he was fat and slurring his speech..he's well off but physically im sure it came with a price

patscorpio wrote:the last time i saw vargas on tv he was fat and slurring his speech..he's well off but physically im sure it came with a price

patscorpio, averaging 2 posts a year since 2002