BoxRec

Would these be fights or what? Who do think would win between Julio Cesar Chavez (the real Chavez) and Manny Pacquiao?

Here are the weights:

130

135

140

Is it a sweep for Chavez? For Pacquiao?

Do they split them up between weight classes?

Are there any knockouts?

oldwarrior

Pac.

Although Meldrick Taylor has a different style than Pac, he proved that superior athleticism can expose Chavez. Not to mention, Pac has way more power than Taylor did.

be a good fight though wouldnt it.

Chavez sweep IMO.

Chavez was an absolute beast at Lightweight (& early-Jr. Welter) & would grind Pacquiao down through the stretch. I know that sounds a cliche, but I really feel that's the way it goes --- Pacquiao steaming hot early, but battered & dejected late. He hangs on & limps to the final bell, losing a split decision. He'd run Chavez a merry chase, though, as well as giving those much-vaunted whiskers a handy work-out.

Pacquiao wins against a greener Chavez at 130.

Chavez beats him at any weight. Julio was in his prime right at the tail-end of his 130 campaign through to his early years at 140. Pacquiao hasn't ever fought anyone above 130 who can outmatch him in any way physically, but Chavez would. JCC also would be able to take Pacquiao's punches without issue and draw the brawl-loving Pacquiao into a war which he would certainly lose. Even a faded Chavez wouldn't allow Pernell Whitaker to beat him clearly enough to actually take the decision in their fight, and Pacquiao isn't as good as Whitaker.

chavez hands down, cuz pacman to me is a bit overated, he makes everybody drop to his weight to fight him, the only good person he beat was a mid prime barerra and he struggled with sum old legends, so i think chavez goes to the body and pacman down in 7th round, pacman aint that great hes just ok, that hatton fight did not impress me

lawtolaw wrote:pacquiao sure 100%

u should go check sum chavez fights and go change your mind.

I would favor Pacquao at 130 and 135 but damn that would've been some matchup and a complete war.

I want to see how Pac does in his next few fights before I can accurately gauge how he'd do historically at 140.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Chavez beats him at any weight. Julio was in his prime right at the tail-end of his 130 campaign through to his early years at 140. Pacquiao hasn't ever fought anyone above 130 who can outmatch him in any way physically, but Chavez would.

- Chavez would be outmatched physically overall in speed, reflexes, and footwork. Strength about even with stamina edge to Chavez who also has the better chin.

Manny has sharper punches and Chavez more bludgeoning punches. I don't claim to know who would win but I can say in a match up of talent, the only southpaw Chavez fought in Manny's class is Camacho who was an entirely different style into his chicken phase of boxing.

Diaz was a physically stronger fighter than Manny as was Hatton and Oscar. None could leverage their strength against him although Hatton had the best style for that and tried the hardest.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Chavez beats him at any weight. Julio was in his prime right at the tail-end of his 130 campaign through to his early years at 140. Pacquiao hasn't ever fought anyone above 130 who can outmatch him in any way physically, but Chavez would. JCC also would be able to take Pacquiao's punches without issue and draw the brawl-loving Pacquiao into a war which he would certainly lose. Even a faded Chavez wouldn't allow Pernell Whitaker to beat him clearly enough to actually take the decision in their fight, and Pacquiao isn't as good as Whitaker.

Whitaker won hands down. It wasn't even competitive. This has no bearing on this hypothetical, mind, but there's only one reason that performance from Whitaker wasn't, "clear enough" --- Don King.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Chavez beats him at any weight. Julio was in his prime right at the tail-end of his 130 campaign through to his early years at 140. Pacquiao hasn't ever fought anyone above 130 who can outmatch him in any way physically, but Chavez would.

- Chavez would be outmatched physically overall in speed, reflexes, and footwork. Strength about even with stamina edge to Chavez who also has the better chin.

Manny has sharper punches and Chavez more bludgeoning punches. I don't claim to know who would win but I can say in a match up of talent, the only southpaw Chavez fought in Manny's class is Camacho who was an entirely different style into his chicken phase of boxing.

Diaz was a physically stronger fighter than Manny as was Hatton and Oscar. None could leverage their strength against him although Hatton had the best style for that and tried the hardest.

Diaz is slower than quicksand and Oscar was set up by Roach's weight shenanigans. Hatton had been getting rocked for several fights previous by guys who weren't even bigtime punchers, his chin was a big fuckin target.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Chavez beats him at any weight. Julio was in his prime right at the tail-end of his 130 campaign through to his early years at 140. Pacquiao hasn't ever fought anyone above 130 who can outmatch him in any way physically, but Chavez would. JCC also would be able to take Pacquiao's punches without issue and draw the brawl-loving Pacquiao into a war which he would certainly lose. Even a faded Chavez wouldn't allow Pernell Whitaker to beat him clearly enough to actually take the decision in their fight, and Pacquiao isn't as good as Whitaker.

Whitaker won hands down. It wasn't even competitive. This has no bearing on this hypothetical, mind, but there's only one reason that performance from Whitaker wasn't, "clear enough" --- Don King.

Whitaker was hitting Chavez about as hard as he ever hit anyone and Chavez kept him backpeddling, Pacquiao's power wouldn't give him any fear, which would of course only make Pacquiao more willing to stand and trade then back up to the ropes like a fool as JCC pounds away.

A Clear Chavez Sweep

Chavez’ competition was arguably better then Paquiao’s. Chavez was able to successfully deal with genuine KO artists Roger Mayweather, Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez and the speed of Meldrick Taylor and Hector Camacho, who was past his best but still faster than most at 140.

Aftermath wrote:A Clear Chavez Sweep

Chavez’ competition was arguably better then Paquiao’s. Chavez was able to successfully deal with genuine KO artists Roger Mayweather, Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez and the speed of Meldrick Taylor and Hector Camacho, who was past his best but still faster than most at 140.

This. Chavez fought every type of fighter imaginable and up until the end, when he was in 140, he beat all of them. At 130 and 135, he was easily one of the greatest ever. Pacquiao has made his reputation off aging brawlers, and he's had trouble when getting into the ring with a defensive-minded counterpuncher like Marquez.

Also, Chavez at 130 and 135 was a much better defensive fighter than Pacquiao was at those weights. He was able to do what Marquez did to trouble Pacquiao, but on a bigger scale. He had head movement, he threw combinations... When he got to 140, he was still in his prime, but he faded quickly. He stopped moving his head, he didn't throw as many punches and he looked to land just one shot. Mind you, he still beat incredible competition, but he wasn't at his best. In his early days at 140, he'd beat Pacquiao, but it isn't really fair to make a comparison, since Pacquiao's only had one fight there.

chavez sr. takes pacquiao at any weight. people tend to forget that most of chavez' opponents were faster than him anyways. i've always thought chavez was a vastly underrated boxer. he knew all the tricks in the book. against pacquiao, he would of stalked him and beat him down in the later rounds. remember, todays lightweights and jr. welterweights cannot compare to the ones in chavez' day. and just because pacquiao absolutely destroys hatton doesn't mean every fighters going to go down once they get hit by pacquiao. if marquez (imo) can beat pacquiao twice i don't think there is any doubt chavez would have beat him even more convincingly.

Ox Baker wrote:When he got to 140, he was still in his prime, but he faded quickly. He stopped moving his head, he didn't throw as many punches and he looked to land just one shot. Mind you, he still beat incredible competition, but he wasn't at his best.

Ox, my man, who at 140 were the incredible competition Chavez beat?

Collins2000 wrote:

Ox Baker wrote:When he got to 140, he was still in his prime, but he faded quickly. He stopped moving his head, he didn't throw as many punches and he looked to land just one shot. Mind you, he still beat incredible competition, but he wasn't at his best.

Ox, my man, who at 140 were the incredible competition Chavez beat?

Don't Granberry this topic, asshole. You know what I'm talking about. Is his competition at 140 comparable to Ali's at heavyweight? No, but in the history of the jr. welterweight division, who's fought better competition? Cervantes, perhaps. De la Hoya only beat Chavez. Pacquiao, Hatton. Hatton, Tszyu. Loi, Ortiz. Ross, Canzoneri. Pryor? DON'T tell me you're a Pryor fan.

Jr. welterweight is a weigh station; a stopping point in the desert between 135 and 147. Throughout its history, it's been devoid of longstanding champions, with only Chavez, Locche, Cervantes Pryor and Tszyu staying there for very long and defending the title, and Chavez's run of beating Mayweather, Taylor, Camacho, Haugen, (Randall, unfortunately), and Lopez is at worst the third-best the division's seen, and arguably the second-best.

Ox Baker wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Ox Baker wrote:When he got to 140, he was still in his prime, but he faded quickly. He stopped moving his head, he didn't throw as many punches and he looked to land just one shot. Mind you, he still beat incredible competition, but he wasn't at his best.

Ox, my man, who at 140 were the incredible competition Chavez beat?

Don't Granberry this topic, asshole. You know what I'm talking about. Is his competition at 140 comparable to Ali's at heavyweight? No, but in the history of the jr. welterweight division, who's fought better competition? Cervantes, perhaps. De la Hoya only beat Chavez. Pacquiao, Hatton. Hatton, Tszyu. Loi, Ortiz. Ross, Canzoneri. Pryor? DON'T tell me you're a Pryor fan.

Jr. welterweight is a weigh station; a stopping point in the desert between 135 and 147. Throughout its history, it's been devoid of longstanding champions, with only Chavez, Locche, Cervantes Pryor and Tszyu staying there for very long and defending the title, and Chavez's run of beating Mayweather, Taylor, Camacho, Haugen, (Randall, unfortunately), and Lopez is at worst the third-best the division's seen, and arguably the second-best.

Hilarious stuff, Ox. So we agree he didn't beat any incredible competition at 140. Now you're learning, son.

Competition can be a collective noun. When I joined this website, it did not occur to me that I would have to explain the finer aspects of the English language to its members.

Ox Baker wrote:Competition can be a collective noun. When I joined this website, it did not occur to me that I would have to explain the finer aspects of the English language to its members.

Unfortunately Ox, even collectively those fellows don't make incredible competition.

If you drop the 'in' from the beginning of the first word, then your otherwise intelligent post would just about pass muster.

Now don't get all hyper-ventilating on me again, Ox. We already have enough drama queens in here at the moment with BRR and DaveV. What we need are some stout chaps who don't mind a bit of give and take. With a name like Ox you don't sound like a bloke who has to sit down and breathe into a paper bag any time someone disagrees with him. Don't let me down on this one, big fellow.

Collins2000 wrote: Now don't get all hyper-ventilating on me again, Ox. We already have enough drama queens in here at the moment with BRR and DaveV. What we need are some stout chaps who don't mind a bit of give and take.

- Careful there collie, one of those stout chaps you like to go wagging your puppy tail up too might just give you a boot after you make another mess of things.

Chavez at any weight. Pac is being severly over rated by his wins over 2 weight drained fighters. Lets see how he goes against SSM or PBF before puting him up there with the elite.

ben k wrote:Chavez at any weight. Pac is being severly over rated by his wins over 2 weight drained fighters. Lets see how he goes against SSM or PBF before puting him up there with the elite.

- Ben, of course Manny is being overrated from recent victories.

No different from JCC being overrated from being legend. That's the nature of the beast, just like your assertion of Chavez at any weight.

How do you think Chavez would do against SSM and Mr. Money at welter?

We know in his era he topped out at 140, and now Manny has to beat SSM and MM to be considered as having any chance against Chavez?

Sounds silly to me.

I don’t think we need to denigrate either of these great fighters. Both men are/were top class fighters and ATGs.

I’m guessing that the weight issue evens out a little when you take into consideration different weigh in times… I just think that this is the speed and power of Pac versus the durability and relentlessness of Chavez. If Pac ends up dooking it out he may land harder, cleaner and quicker shots but Chavez will not wilt and will be grinding down Pac for a late stoppage or a ragged final few rounds.