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Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 14:57
by Poncey
Ooh yeah!
Manny Pacquiao will fight in November and not in October, and hopefully against Miguel Cotto.
That’s what Hall of Fame promoter Bob Arum wants next after watching Cotto walk the tightrope against Joshua Clottey of Ghana late Saturday night (late Sunday morning in Manila) at Madison Square Garden in New York.
“I would like for him (Cotto) to fight Manny Pacquiao,” said Arum, moments after Cotto won by a hard-earned 12-round split decision.
“That would be a tremendous fight and I hope we can get it done for November,” added Arum, without
making it clear whether there’ll be a catch weight since Cotto had announced that he will never agree to face Pacquiao below (the welterweight limit) 147 lbs.
Pacquiao was on hand to size up Cotto’s latest performance, having seated beside Arum at ringside when Cotto and Clottey tore at each other like a pair of jungle predators fighting over a chunk of meat.
With the win, Cotto kept his name afloat for a chance to battle Pacquiao, who is regarded today as boxing’s No. 1 fighter, pound-for-pound.
Others in the running are the July 18 bout between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Juan Manuel Marquez and even Shane Mosley.
It’s not certain if Pacquiao will delay his decision about who to fight next after having been booked by Arum to resurface on Oct. 14.
Arum obviously mentioned November to allow Cotto to recover from the hideous cut on his left eye, the result of the vicious pounding he absorbed from the rugged Clottey.
Promoter Wakee Salud, who spent some time with Pacquiao prior to the fighter’s last-minute decision to fly to New York not only to watch the Cotto fight but to receive his second Boxing
Writers Association of America Fighter of the Year trophy, said it looks dead-certain that Pacquiao will face Cotto next.
“It’s Cotto for Manny,” said Salud yesterday from Cebu.
Salud said Cotto’s earlier pronouncements that he will never agree to a catch weight with Pacquiao is all for show.
“Cotto just wants to get more money but eventually he’ll agree and settle to a catch weight with Manny,” said Salud, noting that 143-144 lbs “will be agreeable” to both parties.Pacquiao, who flew to the Empire State alongside wife Jinkee and advisers Franklin Gacal and Mike Koncz, should be back in Manila either tonight or tomorrow evening.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 15:11
by alexpaterson
Hope it happens will be a very good fight will Cotto of recovered by November that was a very gruelling fight plus that cut didnt half look bad but should be a very good fight I fancy Cotto UD but saying that I also fancied De La Hoya and Hatton so what do i know!
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Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 15:39
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Not sure this will happen, Mayweather-Pacman is by far the biggest fight in boxing. But Cotto will be a big fight too.
Pacquaio will wreck Cotto at 144, he'd probably wreck him at 147 too. Cotto couldnt take Clottey's shots (or Judahs/Margaritos/Mosleys), Pacquaio hits at least as hard as Clottey and will throw much more leather. He'll do what Judah was doing early for the duration of the fight, Cotto's there to be taken out again.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 15:45
by Poncey
Won't be Mayweather next.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 16:02
by stujones
Well I think Cotto has the power to even dent Manny.... but at "mannyweight" as one poster here described it... I think Manny will be too quick and hit to hard himself. I aint sure Cotto would stick to the 12 round pace.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 16:52
by hitman09
Cotto will be a shell. This fight below 147 is an uncompetitive beating IMO.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 17:45
by jamesmcdonnell
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Not sure this will happen, Mayweather-Pacman is by far the biggest fight in boxing. But Cotto will be a big fight too.
Pacquaio will wreck Cotto at 144, he'd probably wreck him at 147 too. Cotto couldnt take Clottey's shots (or Judahs/Margaritos/Mosleys), Pacquaio hits at least as hard as Clottey and will throw much more leather. He'll do what Judah was doing early for the duration of the fight, Cotto's there to be taken out again.
Christ you talk some shite.
Cotto didn't wobble once under fire against Clottey. He may have looked in distress, but he didn't wobble, didn't go down and wasn't stunned at any point.
How do you figure Pacquaio hits harder than Clottey? Clottey has 20 knockouts in the Welterweight division, against good operators.
Manny has stopped one man at 147, and that was a horrifically weight drained and ageing DLH.
Ridiculous comments.
Cotto however, really shouldn't be fighting below 145.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 17:49
by Autobarn
shouldn't cotto be going up and fighting the likes of williams, pavlik, kessler, dawson? rather than waiting for a former flyweight / super bantam to challenge him?
pac can go up through the weights, so why not cotto, an apparently weight drained fighter
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 18:18
by jamesmcdonnell
Autobarn wrote:shouldn't cotto be going up and fighting the likes of williams, pavlik, kessler, dawson? rather than waiting for a former flyweight / super bantam to challenge him?
pac can go up through the weights, so why not cotto, an apparently weight drained fighter
it isnt obligatory mate, nobody is forcing pacman to move up the weights what is wrong with just trying to clean up your own division for christ's sake?
it really gets on my fekking tits when people say dumbass shit like that.
I suppose you think marvin hagler was a loser too?
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 18:49
by lirva
Cotto - tailor made for Pacman. It will be a very quick KO in my opinion.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 18:58
by stujones
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Not sure this will happen, Mayweather-Pacman is by far the biggest fight in boxing. But Cotto will be a big fight too.
Pacquaio will wreck Cotto at 144, he'd probably wreck him at 147 too. Cotto couldnt take Clottey's shots (or Judahs/Margaritos/Mosleys), Pacquaio hits at least as hard as Clottey and will throw much more leather. He'll do what Judah was doing early for the duration of the fight, Cotto's there to be taken out again.
Christ you talk some shite.
Cotto didn't wobble once under fire against Clottey. He may have looked in distress, but he didn't wobble, didn't go down and wasn't stunned at any point.
How do you figure Pacquaio hits harder than Clottey? Clottey has 20 knockouts in the Welterweight division, against good operators.
Manny has stopped one man at 147, and that was a horrifically weight drained and ageing DLH.
Ridiculous comments.
Cotto however, really shouldn't be fighting below 145.
I don't think it is a rediculous comment James, "sharp" punchers hurt Cotto more so than strong men. Guys like Torres and Judah who are as much about speed than strength gave Cotto fits. Guys like Clottey and Quintana, who are more about strength than speed more do not trouble Cotto as much.
Plus the weight, I aint sure Cotto will be too comfortable even at 143-145. That will have a bearing on his punch resistance.
Sure Pacquiao has only had one KO win at 147, he's also only had one fight at 147... and his one fight at 140 ended in a brutal KO. Think Judah could do that to Ricky? I don't think we can doubt Pacquaio's power now at 140.... so why not three pounds north of it.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 14 Jun 2009, 19:47
by jamesmcdonnell
stujones wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Not sure this will happen, Mayweather-Pacman is by far the biggest fight in boxing. But Cotto will be a big fight too.
Pacquaio will wreck Cotto at 144, he'd probably wreck him at 147 too. Cotto couldnt take Clottey's shots (or Judahs/Margaritos/Mosleys), Pacquaio hits at least as hard as Clottey and will throw much more leather. He'll do what Judah was doing early for the duration of the fight, Cotto's there to be taken out again.
Christ you talk some shite.
Cotto didn't wobble once under fire against Clottey. He may have looked in distress, but he didn't wobble, didn't go down and wasn't stunned at any point.
How do you figure Pacquaio hits harder than Clottey? Clottey has 20 knockouts in the Welterweight division, against good operators.
Manny has stopped one man at 147, and that was a horrifically weight drained and ageing DLH.
Ridiculous comments.
Cotto however, really shouldn't be fighting below 145.
I don't think it is a rediculous comment James, "sharp" punchers hurt Cotto more so than strong men. Guys like Torres and Judah who are as much about speed than strength gave Cotto fits. Guys like Clottey and Quintana, who are more about strength than speed more do not trouble Cotto as much.
Plus the weight, I aint sure Cotto will be too comfortable even at 143-145. That will have a bearing on his punch resistance.
Sure Pacquiao has only had one KO win at 147, he's also only had one fight at 147... and his one fight at 140 ended in a brutal KO. Think Judah could do that to Ricky? I don't think we can doubt Pacquaio's power now at 140.... so why not three pounds north of it.
Yes of course it is possible that Pacquaio could hurt Cotto - but for people to talk about it as a given is slightly ridiculous.
Yes, speed is the big issue of course, but Cotto has shown a much better chin since moving up to 147. Pacquaio hammered Hatton, but Hatton got caught early and then fought a pretty dumb fight. Cotto can actually fight off the back foot, which is something Hatton simply cannot do.
Has cotto actually agreed to fighting at a catchweight - I don't think he should, he would be jeapordising his health. I hope the fight doesn't happen at anything under 145, which I think is the limit of where Cotto can get to safely, and even then it may be a bridge too far.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 04:55
by Lenny
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Autobarn wrote:shouldn't cotto be going up and fighting the likes of williams, pavlik, kessler, dawson? rather than waiting for a former flyweight / super bantam to challenge him?
pac can go up through the weights, so why not cotto, an apparently weight drained fighter
it isnt obligatory mate, nobody is forcing pacman to move up the weights what is wrong with just trying to clean up your own division for christ's sake?
it really gets on my fekking tits when people say dumbass poop like that.
I suppose you think marvin hagler was a loser too?
Definitely, I hate this obsession with fighters moving up in weight. I want to see fighters at the weight where their skills are at their best. Move up when you have cleaned out a division and are struggling to make weight. Staying at a weight as the champion for X amount of years defending against all comers is becoming frowned upon.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 05:19
by Dioufy
Only chance Pacquiao has is if Cotto has to drain to something like 144lbs. It's safe to say that Cotto's chin lapses can now be blamed on making light welter - the chin he showed against Clottey proves to me that he can take a shot. If it's at 147lbs, I can see Cotto finishing inside three rounds.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 05:49
by Autobarn
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Autobarn wrote:shouldn't cotto be going up and fighting the likes of williams, pavlik, kessler, dawson? rather than waiting for a former flyweight / super bantam to challenge him?
pac can go up through the weights, so why not cotto, an apparently weight drained fighter
it isnt obligatory mate, nobody is forcing pacman to move up the weights what is wrong with just trying to clean up your own division for christ's sake?
it really gets on my fekking tits when people say dumbass poop like that.
I suppose you think marvin hagler was a loser too?
because pac was an apparently big drainer at 122 pounds - super bantamweight. cotto is a fighter whose performances are diminishing a bit, i believe due to the trials of weight making - yet again. he was more tired than mosley, etc etc.
you leave marvin hagler out of it, young man!
pac's a guy who has earned massive fights, big paydays. cotto doesn't really "deserve" a pac fight. the only reason he has got one is because bob arum promotes both of them & probably doesn't want to deal with anyone else. really, the only fight out there for pac is mayweather...this is the only fighter wwo brings the stature and the prestige for the great manny pacquiao.
arum's made some bonehead moves recently (pavlik-hopkins). has he made another, putting pac in with a powerful welter who's still quite young?
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 06:40
by tonyevs
For the record, I think a fighter achieves the recognition of greatness by moving up in weight - not by beating guys coming up.
Hopkins was applauded for beating Trinidad, De La Hoya but for most proved his worth by beating the bigger Tarver ... name me a guy who only beat smaller guys moving up that is/was applauded as much as say a Sugar Ray, Barrera, Chavez etc?
Also, Cotto less than 147 is seriously handicapped, especially against a livewire thrashing machine like PacMan .. at 147 he beats PacMan, I`m as certain of that as I was that ODLH would win also
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Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 06:52
by Wales
Cotto did move up in weight, he was champion at 140, then a champion at 147. He's beat everyone available at 147 apart form Margarito who's vicotry is somewhat clouded by what proceeded. Cotto's beat the man who beat the man at 147.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 07:24
by Datsue
Can anyone confirm that Cotto weighed nearly twelve stone in the ring last night?
(Heard it off another forum...)
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 07:53
by leeharding
Datsue wrote:Can anyone confirm that Cotto weighed nearly twelve stone in the ring last night?
(Heard it off another forum...)
2009-11-14 mgm grand las veagas cotto vs pacman its oficial thats the date.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 08:09
by Autobarn
Of course you can be a great fighter by staying at one weight class. I admire the discipline of a fighter who can stay at one weight and turn back quality challengers. Never mind Foster, Monzon, Hagler, but more recently Israel Vazquez, who had a fantastic run as super bantam champ. I'm really enjoying the career of bantam champ Hozumi Hasegawa also - what a fighter he is.
Cotto looks like he should be light middle by now. He never looks healthy. He looks like a fat guy who's taken weight off, and flags after round eight (Clottey, Mosley, Margarito fights). Like many Arum fighters he stays at a particular weight too long.
I don't reckon Cotto is a healthy welterweight, or even a natural welterweight. This is something I probably didn't specify. Obviously, Cotto must be chuffed; he's hit paydirt. But from a fan's POV, why can Manny chalenge the likes of Cotto, so why can't Cotto go up and challenge someone like Kelly Pavlik? Let's not forget, this is Cotto, the guy who was killing himself just to defend WBO plastic vs Malignaggi and Torres, and struggling for it (down at 140).
Granted, Cotto beat a big welterweight on Saturday, props to him for that.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 08:21
by Robyork
Cotto showed tremondous guts to be beat Clottey. He boxed brilliantly in the last few rounds to get the decision. However Clottey for me let him off the hook by hardly throwing anything in the last 3 rounds.
I do worry about Cotto as he has been in some tough fights in his career and gets marked up badly. I think he may be there for the taking by the likes of pacman and mayweather but I would never make someone a massive faveourite over him as he still hits hard, has a great chin, excellent movement and a very under rated boxing brain.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 08:25
by jamesmcdonnell
Autobarn wrote:Of course you can be a great fighter by staying at one weight class. I admire the discipline of a fighter who can stay at one weight and turn back quality challengers. Never mind Foster, Monzon, Hagler, but more recently Israel Vazquez, who had a fantastic run as super bantam champ. I'm really enjoying the career of bantam champ Hozumi Hasegawa also - what a fighter he is.
Cotto looks like he should be light middle by now. He never looks healthy. He looks like a fat guy who's taken weight off, and flags after round eight (Clottey, Mosley, Margarito fights). Like many Arum fighters he stays at a particular weight too long.
I don't reckon Cotto is a healthy welterweight, or even a natural welterweight. This is something I probably didn't specify. Obviously, Cotto must be chuffed; he's hit paydirt. But from a fan's POV, why can Manny chalenge the likes of Cotto, so why can't Cotto go up and challenge someone like Kelly Pavlik? Let's not forget, this is Cotto, the guy who was killing himself just to defend WBO plastic vs Malignaggi and Torres, and struggling for it.
Granted, Cotto beat a big welterweight on Saturday, props to him for that.
To be fair, Cotto had a broken nose from round 4 on against Margarito and was experiencing breathing difficulties. He also fought at a pretty frenetic pace against Mosley.
Perhaps he's also just not that fantastic a natural athelete, not all fighters are, but he has a terrific will to win and the heart of a warrior. He took an awful pasting against Margarito but kept on trying until the end to find a way to win.
I think at light middle he's not going to be tall enough or rangy enough.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 08:29
by Autobarn
well anyway, cotto has got his big fight. terrific offensive fighter, brilliant to watch, but as you say he's not a great athlete. i just think, it is a bit anticlimactic, to see a guy heap on brutal pressure and then to back off at the end. sure he has the skills to get away with it. cotto v pac is a strange fight, one that i would never have seen coming a year or 2 ago.
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 08:32
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Not sure this will happen, Mayweather-Pacman is by far the biggest fight in boxing. But Cotto will be a big fight too.
Pacquaio will wreck Cotto at 144, he'd probably wreck him at 147 too. Cotto couldnt take Clottey's shots (or Judahs/Margaritos/Mosleys), Pacquaio hits at least as hard as Clottey and will throw much more leather. He'll do what Judah was doing early for the duration of the fight, Cotto's there to be taken out again.
Christ you talk some shite.
Cotto didn't wobble once under fire against Clottey. He may have looked in distress, but he didn't wobble, didn't go down and wasn't stunned at any point.
How do you figure Pacquaio hits harder than Clottey? Clottey has 20 knockouts in the Welterweight division, against good operators.
Manny has stopped one man at 147, and that was a horrifically weight drained and ageing DLH.
Ridiculous comments.
Cotto however, really shouldn't be fighting below 145.
I only saw the fight once but from rounds 7-8 Cotto looked like he was getting ko'd again, call it what you want, he was hurt. If Clottey had fought at the same pace for rounds 9 onwards Cotto wouldnt have lasted, if Margarito was the 1 there in the last 4 rounds he certainly will have ko'd Cotto.
I'm guessing Pac hits as hard as Clottey, Clottey is a fair bit bigger but isn't as dynamic power puncher as Pac.
Cotto is getting knocked out when he faces Pacquaio/Mayweather/Margarito/Williams/Mosley. Anyway Cotto will be well drained at 144 and has a defense every bit as bad as Hatton. Pacquaio will land most of what he throws, which only means 1 thing Cotto getting knocked out, and if he avoids it late he'll tire down the stretch
Re: Pacman v Cotto November
Posted: 15 Jun 2009, 08:34
by Autobarn
forgive me for being under a rock.
cotto-pac is at catchweight 144?
mannyweight (aka moneyweight)
cotto will be a skeleton & his reflexes will be fvcked.
another moneyweight massacre