BoxRec

Well said Bigmark.

let gerrys have him

rest of world shouldn't give a shit about wlad, a nifty boxer but a bore. a feeble spectacle. kessler could dominate fights with jabs but at least he'd show a bit of killer instinct. at least he was sturdy holding the middle of the ring, at least he didn't clinch and TURN HIS BACK WHEN HIS OPPONENT BREAKS OUT OF CLINCH

wlad saves himself for next fight, during current fight

eff this, watch pascal v diaconu for atmos and quality

Chagaev was absolutely piss poor. I mean, he struggled with Ruiz and Skeltons.

He was really dire. But Wlad does deserve credit.

BIGMARK wrote:Everyone it seems is on Wlad's case on this site after last nights fight and i feel its a bit harsh. Ok Wlad will never be the second coming of Tyson but is very effective at what he does and very difficult to beat. Yes he may be jab, jab, jab and then throw the right but he comes to win not entertain. Wlad knows his chin isnt the best so plays safe but using his long reach and size to break down fighters and last night just befoe Chagaev quit he was uping it and trying for the stoppage. I would love haye to beat him but to do that is easier said than done as Wlad doesnt let anyone near him and has half decent foot work to keep out of harms reach. IMO Wlad was in fantastic condition last night, looked faster and sharper than normal which was down to the threat that Haye was going to bring. He also deserves credit for taking on proberly the top heavyweight (apart from his brother) out there at 2 weeks notice who was an unbeaten southpaw. Wlad won every second of every round and IMO adopted the perfect tactics to beat a very dangerous fighter. His performence reminded a little of when Lennox beat Tua and if Haye fights the way he did against Barrett against Wlad he will be KO'd.

I agree with your comments about last nights fight but the fact is Wlad has just taken advantage of a terrible heavyweight division which makes him a much better businessman than a boxer....I'm not sure he would last 5 rounds against a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Holmes, McCall, Bowe.....and he's lucky no one in the division is nearly as good as these guys...

I give Wlad credit for being clever, manipulating a poor division and keeping in good shape but I can't give him credit for being a good technical boxer with a big heart because he is neither.....

I'll give him some credit.

In a toe to toe battle with 'paint drying' he would win a split decision.

I'm still no fan of Wlad but that was at least a bit more entertaining than Wlad's usual Fights and its a shame he wasn't allowed to close out the Fight with a KO/TKO.

Its still amazing that he got 61,000 fans, just show's how popular he and boxing is in Germany and from the looks of last night it looked like a real Spectacle, they really know how to Mix Showbusiness and Sport together.

Anyway Wlad is now RING Champ and the IBF/WBO and just beaten the unbeaten WBA Champ Chagaev although i'd still say Vitali is the best Heavyweight out there.

Wladimir is 6ft 7in. Just as a middleweight is going to be slower than a flyweight, so someone of his size is not going to move around like a middleweight. However, he has great balance, a wicked jab and serious power. Different fighters bring different things. Marciano was a brawler, Patterson was chinny, Holmes was in plenty of dull fights. Klitschko might not be everyone's favourite, but he's certainly a good boxer.

BIGMARK wrote:Everyone it seems is on Wlad's case on this site after last nights fight and i feel its a bit harsh. Ok Wlad will never be the second coming of Tyson but is very effective at what he does and very difficult to beat. Yes he may be jab, jab, jab and then throw the right but he comes to win not entertain. Wlad knows his chin isnt the best so plays safe but using his long reach and size to break down fighters and last night just befoe Chagaev quit he was uping it and trying for the stoppage. I would love haye to beat him but to do that is easier said than done as Wlad doesnt let anyone near him and has half decent foot work to keep out of harms reach. IMO Wlad was in fantastic condition last night, looked faster and sharper than normal which was down to the threat that Haye was going to bring. He also deserves credit for taking on proberly the top heavyweight (apart from his brother) out there at 2 weeks notice who was an unbeaten southpaw. Wlad won every second of every round and IMO adopted the perfect tactics to beat a very dangerous fighter. His performence reminded a little of when Lennox beat Tua and if Haye fights the way he did against Barrett against Wlad he will be KO'd.

Excellent post Mark personally I can,t see what peoples problems are with the Klitscho.s if they were Americans or Brits they,d be superstars for coming back from the heavy defeats theyve had to totally dominate the division .
People criticise Wlad for being chinny then call him one dimensional when he uses the perfect tactics (straight punches and footwork)to protect his jaw.
All the other heavyweights Haye included think the can expose the one dimensional robotic brothers but they all fall short once they feel the power of those jabs.
They come across as decent respectful guys who most of the other heavies could learn a lot from and in years to come people will be looking back at their records and knockout percentages thinking that actually they were pretty good.

I give him credit for a good performance, but that wasn't a fight. He wasn't in with a guy who was asking him any questions - he just did what he always does. They get hit with the jab and completely give up.

I just hope Arreola gives him a fight. Haye, whatever else you think of him, will come in with a gameplan and will at least go out on his shield. Chagaev didn't even try towards the end.

Thunder Gatti wrote:

BIGMARK wrote:Everyone it seems is on Wlad's case on this site after last nights fight and i feel its a bit harsh. Ok Wlad will never be the second coming of Tyson but is very effective at what he does and very difficult to beat. Yes he may be jab, jab, jab and then throw the right but he comes to win not entertain. Wlad knows his chin isnt the best so plays safe but using his long reach and size to break down fighters and last night just befoe Chagaev quit he was uping it and trying for the stoppage. I would love haye to beat him but to do that is easier said than done as Wlad doesnt let anyone near him and has half decent foot work to keep out of harms reach. IMO Wlad was in fantastic condition last night, looked faster and sharper than normal which was down to the threat that Haye was going to bring. He also deserves credit for taking on proberly the top heavyweight (apart from his brother) out there at 2 weeks notice who was an unbeaten southpaw. Wlad won every second of every round and IMO adopted the perfect tactics to beat a very dangerous fighter. His performence reminded a little of when Lennox beat Tua and if Haye fights the way he did against Barrett against Wlad he will be KO'd.

I agree with your comments about last nights fight but the fact is Wlad has just taken advantage of a terrible heavyweight division which makes him a much better businessman than a boxer....I'm not sure he would last 5 rounds against a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Holmes, McCall, Bowe.....and he's lucky no one in the division is nearly as good as these guys...

I give Wlad credit for being clever, manipulating a poor division and keeping in good shape but I can't give him credit for being a good technical boxer with a big heart because he is neither.....

Spot on Thunder

thaibox uk wrote:

BIGMARK wrote:Everyone it seems is on Wlad's case on this site after last nights fight and i feel its a bit harsh. Ok Wlad will never be the second coming of Tyson but is very effective at what he does and very difficult to beat. Yes he may be jab, jab, jab and then throw the right but he comes to win not entertain. Wlad knows his chin isnt the best so plays safe but using his long reach and size to break down fighters and last night just befoe Chagaev quit he was uping it and trying for the stoppage. I would love haye to beat him but to do that is easier said than done as Wlad doesnt let anyone near him and has half decent foot work to keep out of harms reach. IMO Wlad was in fantastic condition last night, looked faster and sharper than normal which was down to the threat that Haye was going to bring. He also deserves credit for taking on proberly the top heavyweight (apart from his brother) out there at 2 weeks notice who was an unbeaten southpaw. Wlad won every second of every round and IMO adopted the perfect tactics to beat a very dangerous fighter. His performence reminded a little of when Lennox beat Tua and if Haye fights the way he did against Barrett against Wlad he will be KO'd.

Excellent post Mark personally I can,t see what peoples problems are with the Klitscho.s if they were Americans or Brits they,d be superstars for coming back from the heavy defeats theyve had to totally dominate the division .
People criticise Wlad for being chinny then call him one dimensional when he uses the perfect tactics (straight punches and footwork)to protect his jaw.
All the other heavyweights Haye included think the can expose the one dimensional robotic brothers but they all fall short once they feel the power of those jabs.
They come across as decent respectful guys who most of the other heavies could learn a lot from and in years to come people will be looking back at their records and knockout percentages thinking that actually they were pretty good.

It's a sad indicment that none of Klitschko's most recent opponents have managed to find a way past a left hand jab, followed occasionally by a right hand. Klitschko is more predictable than the British weather and the fact that he can win fights with a jab and right hand, plus some decent movement, is evidence of how bad the heavyweight division is at the moment. I won't be watching any of his fights again, unless he happens to fight Haye, which i doubt very much will happen now.

Someone said earlier, that Klitschko has other tools in his box to use, but he does'nt because he has been knocked on his arse a few times and so opps for his current style. The reason he can get away with what he does, is because the division is virtually devoid of talent. A prime Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, all would have been able to get past Klitschko's predictable style, aswell as other heavyweights of recent years, such as Morrison, Ruddock, Tua, etc. Klitschko will not fight in another style until he has to and that will only be when someone can ruffle his feathers and put him under intense pressure and i can't see that happenning from any of the current crop, which is very depressing. Haye has a good chance, because he has the attributes to get to Klitschko and take him out of that comfort zone. When he is on form (Not the Barrett fight) he has decent movement, speed, power, accuracy and the ability to punch in bunches and creat good angles whilst doing so. The only drawback, as we all know, is Haye's chin and if the fight went past six rounds, his stamina and fitness. It is rather sad to think that the only figter with any chance of beating Klitschko, is a blown up, un-tested, decent cruiserweight. Klitschko is where he is and does what he does, not because of his talent, but the lack of it on, with regards to his opponents.

BIGMARK wrote:

Quixall wrote:Someone said earlier, that Klitschko has other tools in his box to use, but he does'nt because he has been knocked on his arse a few times and so opps for his current style. The reason he can get away with what he does, is because the division is virtually devoid of talent. A prime Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, all would have been able to get past Klitschko's predictable style, aswell as other heavyweights of recent years, such as Morrison, Ruddock, Tua, etc. Klitschko will not fight in another style until he has to and that will only be when someone can ruffle his feathers and put him under intense pressure and i can't see that happenning from any of the current crop, which is very depressing. Haye has a good chance, because he has the attributes to get to Klitschko and take him out of that comfort zone. When he is on form (Not the Barrett fight) he has decent movement, speed, power, accuracy and the ability to punch in bunches and creat good angles whilst doing so. The only drawback, as we all know, is Haye's chin and if the fight went past six rounds, his stamina and fitness. It is rather sad to think that the only figter with any chance of beating Klitschko, is a blown up, un-tested, decent cruiserweight. Klitschko is where he is and does what he does, not because of his talent, but the lack of it on, with regards to his opponents.

people put to much stock in the 80's and 90's versions of the heavyweight division and tend to romance about it. Yes there were some personalities and good match ups but IMO both Klitschkos would of done well against most fighters in that era with exception of Lewis who for me was the perfect boxing machine mixing up decent skills with a decent boxing brain. I enjoyed the 90's but the Wlad from last night would of beaten them all with the exception of Holyfield, Lewis and a prime Tyson. I would of loved to have seen the Wlad from last night in with Holyfield or Tyson because they would be interesting match ups but a lot closer than people think. Just for record i think Tyson was the savior of boxing in the 80's with his exciting style but to me is one of the most overated fighters of all time.

Definately agree with you about Tyson, on both counts. He definately saved the heavyweight division from from mediocraty in the mid 1980's and effectively took over from Larry Holmes in that respect. But i totally agree when you say that he was one of the most over-rated fighters. Tyson peaked between 19 to 23 years of age and was'nt the same fighter after the Spinks fight and certainly after his first defeat to Douglas. Tyson had no defence whatsoever and relied on his youth, speed, accuracy and power. Once he left the Rooney camp, developed problems in his personal life and lost the dedication to train and live properly, as he got older, he found that the attrivutes that had been so effective in his early career were slowly ebbing away. By his late 20's, he had lost that speed, accuracy and no longer punched in effective combinations, that were a part of his power, as was his hand speed. I think that either Klitschko could have held their own against most of the fighters of the 80's and 90's, the difference being that there were more fighters around back then who could have beaten them. The other point, is something you have touched upon earlier, in that the fighters of the 80's and 90's were more gung-Ho and would have attacked the Klitschko's, making them open up more and consquentely making the fights more exciting. At the moment the fights are too controlled and un-entertaining and at times look like amateur fights with the head gear taken off. I would agree though and say that the 80's and 90's tend to rest their laurels on the names of Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis and Holyfield, but i still think that some of the more fringe fighters like Tua, Ruddock, Morrison and Briggs etc, would have been quite succesful in this period, especially in their prime years.

u can only beat who is put in front of u and in that respect u can't fault wladimir.

let's be honest though.

the likes of ibragimov and chagaev hardly get the pulses racing.

both boxers with no real power to speak of.

there the best of a fairly mediocre bunch.

that's always gonna be wlad's problem when judged against the greats of the past.

i think lennox lewis would pancake wladimir in a round or two.

no way does he have the resistance to ship some of that stuff that lennox used to dish out.

BIGMARK wrote:people put to much stock in the 80's and 90's versions of the heavyweight division and tend to romance about it. Yes there were some personalities and good match ups but IMO both Klitschkos would of done well against most fighters in that era with exception of Lewis who for me was the perfect boxing machine mixing up decent skills with a decent boxing brain. I enjoyed the 90's but the Wlad from last night would of beaten them all with the exception of Holyfield, Lewis and a prime Tyson. I would of loved to have seen the Wlad from last night in with Holyfield or Tyson because they would be interesting match ups but a lot closer than people think. Just for record i think Tyson was the savior of boxing in the 80's with his exciting style but to me is one of the most overated fighters of all time.

i think vitali is the better of the 2.

the lewis fight alone was enough to convince u he could have given anyone in history problems.

with his toughness and awkwardness.

he proved in that one fight what wladimir has still failed to prove.

that he can tough it out against a real top notch fighter.

wladimir needs someone like a david haye to really convince people he can deliver against a dangerous puncher.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

BIGMARK wrote:people put to much stock in the 80's and 90's versions of the heavyweight division and tend to romance about it. Yes there were some personalities and good match ups but IMO both Klitschkos would of done well against most fighters in that era with exception of Lewis who for me was the perfect boxing machine mixing up decent skills with a decent boxing brain. I enjoyed the 90's but the Wlad from last night would of beaten them all with the exception of Holyfield, Lewis and a prime Tyson. I would of loved to have seen the Wlad from last night in with Holyfield or Tyson because they would be interesting match ups but a lot closer than people think. Just for record i think Tyson was the savior of boxing in the 80's with his exciting style but to me is one of the most overated fighters of all time.

i think vitali is the better of the 2.

the lewis fight alone was enough to convince u he could have given anyone in history problems.

with his toughness and awkwardness.

he proved in that one fight what wladimir has still failed to prove.

that he can tough it out against a real top notch fighter.

wladimir needs someone like a david haye to really convince people he can deliver against a dangerous puncher.

That was a very bad version of Lennox. He had prepared for Kirk Johnson and then that fight was cancelled, so Vitali was the replacement and i think that Lennox took the preporation for Johnson lightly and then under-estimated how awkward Vitali would be. The Lennox who fought Tyson would have demolished Vitali, but i agree with your general premise, that Vitali would have fared better than Wladimir, in respect of the fighters of the mid 80's and 90's.

Ps Has your favourite packed in yet

Quixall wrote:Ps Has your favourite packed in yet

the legend that is ricky hatton will return. :)

Yes. Lets give him some credit

If anyone can name me one fighter in the last couple of years that Vlad has ducked I would be very interested to know (Vitali not included)

He does what he needs to do to win. If the fighters that he fights cant get past his left jab and right hand what do you want Vlad to do about that. Switch to southpaw? Neglect the jab? Become hook happy? Rush in like like a 250lb Ricky Hatton?

This critcism is laughable. He is what he is, and its for the fighters out there to make him
bring ut the rest of the arsenal

Haye was afforded the opportunity. Unfortunately for us 'the saviour of the HW division' had a ba?k problem

Ant Evans wrote:Sorry, but most of you guys just don't get it.

Let me spell it out: Wladimir needs to be entertaining because outside of Germany - who have some funny ideas of what good entertainment is - no one gives a flying eff and, as the leader of the boxing world, boxing needs a heavyweight champ people do give an eff about.

American TV didn't show it. UK TV picked it up for five quid fifty at the last minute. It is a awful state of affairs for the once "richest prize in sport". Wladimir is like a German pop star, famous in that country but a zero outside it. And it is exactly because of his style, or should I say the style he's had post-Corrie Sanders....

Wladimir is helping to kill boxing and all you marks who say things like "it is down to the other guy to make him fight" etc don't understand how sports promotion works. Boxing is sold as a fight, a competitive prize fight where action and excitment are promised. No-one expects Ali v Frazier I ever fight, but with Wlad's fights he's scared to death of guys leagues below him. And people used to say Lennox Lewis didn't use his physical advantages!

In 9 rounds, against yet another opponent who couldn't hit back, Wlad threw NOT ONE right hook and NOT ONE uppercut. A 6ft 7inch heavyweight champion who NEVER throws uppercuts????

If Klitschko was an American banging over Russians, America would care. Americans didn't like Lewis and haven't really cared about anyone since Tyson. The heavyweights only got away with it post-Ali because of Don King and the fact that it was on network TV, not cable. But these days, America is not the be all and end all that it used to be.

Sorry, but most of you guys just don't get it.

Let me spell it out: Wladimir needs to be entertaining because outside of Germany - who have some funny ideas of what good entertainment is - no one gives a flying eff and, as the leader of the boxing world, boxing needs a heavyweight champ people do give an eff about.

American TV didn't show it. UK TV picked it up for five quid fifty at the last minute. It is a awful state of affairs for the once "richest prize in sport". Wladimir is like a German pop star, famous in that country but a zero outside it. And it is exactly because of his style, or should I say the style he's had post-Corrie Sanders....

Wladimir is helping to kill boxing and all you marks who say things like "it is down to the other guy to make him fight" etc don't understand how sports promotion works. Boxing is sold as a fight, a competitive prize fight where action and excitment are promised. No-one expects Ali v Frazier I ever fight, but with Wlad's fights he's scared to death of guys leagues below him. And people used to say Lennox Lewis didn't use his physical advantages!

In 9 rounds, against yet another opponent who couldn't hit back, Wlad threw NOT ONE right hook and NOT ONE uppercut. A 6ft 7inch heavyweight champion who NEVER throws uppercuts????


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Well i found Wlad entertaining last night, it was great to see an athlete at the top of his sport and totally dominating one of his nearest rivals.

Also HBO pulled out due to Chagaev having absolutely no marketability for the fight and being another eastern european fighting in Germany and it was shown on ESPN Classic and ESPN 2 to Millions of Viewers. HBO will show Wlads next fight against Povetkin so they still want to show his Fights.

Setanta had no money so that was just a quick sale due to Wlad not getting any money from Setanta or British television in the original deal.

The Fight was a Massive success and got Rave Reviews from the 61,000 in attendence and from British, American, Russian and German Television

I'm not a fan of Wlad but let's put it this way, boxing(and all sports for that matter) is about winning and as long as it's legal you do whatever you can to win. If it bores people then tough sh*t that's just the way it goes.

Wlad just did his job, plain and simple.

Chagaev is the one we should have a go at. He came and did nothing at all. The right hand that put him down virtually ended any chance of a spectacle there and then.

I was over there for the fight and although the Germans know how to put on a proffesional show in a big arena, the main event was lame and the undercard was piss poor.

Klitschko is a business man, a product in many ways. Why would he take risks when he doesn`t have to. The onus is on the opponent to put him out of the comfort zone. Chagaev moved well for a few rounds but never let the left hand fly. The only way to beat Wlad is to get in amongst him, break his rythmn and keep the pressure on all the time. We know he can be put down when hit clean, but you have to throw punches to do that.

Very poor effort by Chagaev. Win or lose, I believe Haye would have given far better entertainment.

There's no doubting that Wlad's very effective and excellent at what he does, but there's also no doubting that he's the most boring boxer ever to lace up a pair of gloves. I presume he won on Saturday night.... I fell asleep in the third

Question is, does Wlad basically just win because he's a big lump in some kind of shape?

That's pretty much what he brings to the party, big.

No ferocious hooks, blinding speed, stella chin etc, just big.

Goz wrote:Question is, does Wlad basically just win because he's a big lump in some kind of shape?

That's pretty much what he brings to the party, big.

No ferocious hooks, blinding speed, stella chin etc, just big.

But also a good jab, conditioning (looked great on Saturday) and a powerful straight right. Belshaw brings "Big", but it`s about more than that.