BoxRec

Randolph Turpin defeated the great Sugar Ray Robinson to win the World Middleweight title. This has to be the greatest win for a British boxer ever, would anybody disagree with that?

On paper yes. But when the circumstances are taken into account I reckon Honeyghan's defeat of Curry rates higher

bollox wrote:On paper yes. But when the circumstances are taken into account I reckon Honeyghan's defeat of Curry rates higher

Can you please elaborate on those circumstances?

Oh man, it was a great day for British boxing. Randy Turpin indeed was a great fighter. He almost beat the great Sugar Ray Robinson in the rematch, too.

Rocky Balboa wrote:

bollox wrote:On paper yes. But when the circumstances are taken into account I reckon Honeyghan's defeat of Curry rates higher

Can you please elaborate on those circumstances?

I think it's pretty well known that Robinson was doing the European tour and living it up. Lack of proper training

That excuse loses traction with each passing round. While there is truth to it, it's more legitimate if a fighter is sparked (ala Lewis against Rahman). When a fighter drops a fifteen-round decision, he has plenty of time to adjust, & let his class shine through.

Turpin did what no one could that night, irrespective of Robinson's playboy antics.

Yeah, the greatest win. We've had plenty others but this got heavy-handed Randy a statue.
Randy took away Sugar's jab.

bollox wrote:

Rocky Balboa wrote:

bollox wrote:On paper yes. But when the circumstances are taken into account I reckon Honeyghan's defeat of Curry rates higher

Can you please elaborate on those circumstances?

I think it's pretty well known that Robinson was doing the European tour and living it up. Lack of proper training

That sounds like Sugar Ray Leonard did not fight his fight against the great Roberto Duran. Turpin almost beat Robinson in the rematch, too.

No, it sounds as if Leonard tried fighting Duran's fight. And as a result he lost

It was a great victory and the rematch was very close also he put up a great fight both nights i would say its the best win for a British boxer ever it was an amazing win

The first fight was a historic win, but he showed his toughness in the second fight. Not many fighters would have gotten up from the right hand Robinson laid on Turpin near the end of the second fight. Once he got up he took an amazing pounding and stayed on his feet until the end, refusing to give in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3npTVGLrCs

It is a legitimate excuse that Robinson was partying it up and not fully prepared for Turpin in their first fight. That being said boxing is an unforgiving sport and excuses are just that. If Robinson didnt have such a big ego he wouldnt have taken a fight unprepared. He did and he suffered for it. Now, as far as him "almost beating" Robinson: Class shows and Robinson was easily a class or two above Tuprin. Robinson was ahead on two of three cards with the other even when he suffered that cut. When it came down to it the fight was going to be won or lost by one man in that final round and it was Robinson who put on a spectacular finish and stopped his man when the chips were down. No excuses Randy.

Now, here is an interesting scenario. What if there was no rematch clause and Randy had instead defended against Bobo Olson. Would he have defeated Olson? Would he have lost like he did later for the vacant title? If so how does Robinson's career change? Would he have come back to defeat either Olson or Turpin? Would he have retired as he did a year later?

bollox wrote:No, it sounds as if Leonard tried fighting Duran's fight. And as a result he lost

That means Duran was not supposed to win, then. He should have said "No Mas" in the first bout.

klompton wrote:It is a legitimate excuse that Robinson was partying it up and not fully prepared for Turpin in their first fight. That being said boxing is an unforgiving sport and excuses are just that. If Robinson didnt have such a big ego he wouldnt have taken a fight unprepared. He did and he suffered for it. Now, as far as him "almost beating" Robinson: Class shows and Robinson was easily a class or two above Tuprin. Robinson was ahead on two of three cards with the other even when he suffered that cut. When it came down to it the fight was going to be won or lost by one man in that final round and it was Robinson who put on a spectacular finish and stopped his man when the chips were down. No excuses Randy.

Now, here is an interesting scenario. What if there was no rematch clause and Randy had instead defended against Bobo Olson. Would he have defeated Olson? Would he have lost like he did later for the vacant title? If so how does Robinson's career change? Would he have come back to defeat either Olson or Turpin? Would he have retired as he did a year later?

Robinson beat Olson too many times. It would have come back to him anyway.

bollox wrote:I think it's pretty well known that Robinson was doing the European tour and living it up. Lack of proper training

- Pretty well known that Robinson was always living it up and often neglected proper training.

He was fighting once a week for the previous 6 Euro fights going into Turpin over a total of 34 rds, so his conditioning was good. The journeymen he was fighting weren't much threat, more like sparring for him.

Enter Turpin who stands out for being young, big, and strong with a superior record. Nothing in England could ever prepare him for a Robinson. Perhaps Robby got lulled by the easy exhibition tour and accolades, but he was in shape and experienced enough to know this guy was potentially a dangerman.

Great win and Turpin showed his class in the rematch. Very underrated and forgotten fighter even in UK.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:Great win and Turpin showed his class in the rematch. Very underrated and forgotten fighter even in UK.

Not forgotten at all in the UK.

Collins2000 wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:Great win and Turpin showed his class in the rematch. Very underrated and forgotten fighter even in UK.

Not forgotten at all in the UK.

id say many people have heard of him even if not avid boxing fans they may not know much about him but hes not forgotten

Adamj1987 wrote: id say many people have heard of him even if not avid boxing fans they may not know much about him but hes not forgotten

- Here's the beeb top 10 list of British post war fighters link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/4107884.stm

Turpin was lucky to place 10th in spite of having perhaps the best win in boxing history and the best series of the bunch. Heavily biased towards the latter half of the decade with 7 of 10 occupying that slot. Turpin has more wins than all but Mills who was also forgotten with a lowly 7th ranking.

Guaranteed most in UK know all about Lewis, McGuigan, Benn, and Hamed, but they couldn't do more than scratch their heads and tell you that Turpin's name rings a bell, and then ask you if he was a highwayman of legend and song or some other unrelated endeavor.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:
Guaranteed most in UK know all about Lewis, McGuigan, Benn, and Hamed, but they couldn't do more than scratch their heads and tell you that Turpin's name rings a bell, and then ask you if he was a highwayman of legend and song or some other unrelated endeavor.

you can guarantee nothing of the sort.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote: id say many people have heard of him even if not avid boxing fans they may not know much about him but hes not forgotten

- Here's the beeb top 10 list of British post war fighters link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/4107884.stm

Turpin was lucky to place 10th in spite of having perhaps the best win in boxing history and the best series of the bunch. Heavily biased towards the latter half of the decade with 7 of 10 occupying that slot. Turpin has more wins than all but Mills who was also forgotten with a lowly 7th ranking.

Guaranteed most in UK know all about Lewis, McGuigan, Benn, and Hamed, but they couldn't do more than scratch their heads and tell you that Turpin's name rings a bell, and then ask you if he was a highwayman of legend and song or some other unrelated endeavor.

Thanks for posting the list. Really interesting list, unless it's based purely on popularity. McGuigan #3 in particular.

Whats wrong with Mill's ranking at 7? He was shit. His best wins came against guys who were over the hill, overrated, or little more than domestic talents.

..i saw the film of robinson/turpin #1 in a movie theatre a day or two after the fight. best fight film of a fight that went the distance i've ever seen..before or since. no highlights...just the full three rounds..PLUS the minute in between!

like most of us over here in the colonies i had never seen turpin. i have a fairly clear memory of him first, i was impressed by his physical strength. also, he had an unusual style and a smart one to use against the sugar man. robby started adapting to that style in the late rounds, but it was too late and turpin had control all the way.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote: id say many people have heard of him even if not avid boxing fans they may not know much about him but hes not forgotten

- Here's the beeb top 10 list of British post war fighters link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/4107884.stm

Seems to be the work of one man. Ben Dirs? Never heard of him.

Collins2000 wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote: id say many people have heard of him even if not avid boxing fans they may not know much about him but hes not forgotten

- Here's the beeb top 10 list of British post war fighters link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/4107884.stm

Seems to be the work of one man. Ben Dirs? Never heard of him.

he is a bbc blogger who 'works' mainly on cricket and rugby

occasionally he puts boxing stuff on the bbc website- generally received with howls of outrage and nitpicking from various self-appointed experts :P

Counter-puncher wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:
Seems to be the work of one man. Ben Dirs? Never heard of him.

he is a bbc blogger who 'works' mainly on cricket and rugby

occasionally he puts boxing stuff on the bbc website- generally received with howls of outrage and nitpicking from various self-appointed experts :P

So, once again BRR's 'evidence' turns out to be hogwash.