BoxRec

Gentleman Gene Tunney at his best vs these men...

tell me how you see these fights playing out etc

peak for peak matches..


vs James J Corbett

vs James J Jeffries

vs Jack Johnson

vs Harold Johnson

vs Roy Jones Jr

vs Ezzard Charles

Thanks guys../..

Robinson wrote: vs James J Corbett - Tunney takes it to Corbett and uses his superior strength and harder punching to break him down to a late stoppage win.

vs James J Jeffries - Tunney might be able to outbox and outmaneuver him, but I could also see Jeffries using his superior strength and power to surge on late and take the fight.

vs Jack Johnson - Tough to call, possibly Tunney could use his superior speed and footwork to beat him on points. Frankly I don't know about this one.

vs Harold Johnson - Tunny by close split decision in a fast paced, if semi-tactical fight.

vs Roy Jones Jr - Tunney gets his respect early, and then technically shuts him down to win either a clear decision or late stoppage.

vs Ezzard Charles - Charles was slightly more well-rounded IMO and had a superior offense, and I think that's the difference. Charles wins by decision, or perhaps even late stoppage, after a close and entertaining battle.

My picks.

Robinson wrote: vs Roy Jones Jr

vs Ezzard Charles

Thanks guys../..

- Should beat the others with superior boxing and ring generalship fairly handily.

Jones and Charles is where he runs into problems as they won't be outboxed or outspeeded or outthought. Pretty much a pickem stalemate at that point.

Roy Jones never fought ANYONE even close to Tunney's reputation or skill level including Toney how is this overrated, unproven, media creation going to beat a legitimate all time great?

klompton wrote:Roy Jones never fought ANYONE even close to Tunney's reputation or skill level including Toney how is this overrated, unproven, media creation going to beat a legitimate all time great?

HOW?? how about speed. jones is too fast for tunney. i have a lot of respect for tunney and his skill level. even though he didn't cross the color line he was great. but when i watch films of tunney and then watch films of jones, there's no way i can pick against jones in a prime vs prime matchup.

Its easy to look so fast when you are fighting garbage men, pool cleaners, part time cops, and wal-mart greeters which Jones literally was...

Oh, and steroids help too...

klompton wrote:Its easy to look so fast when you are fighting garbage men, pool cleaners, part time cops, and wal-mart greeters which Jones literally was...

Oh, and steroids help too...

if he was so terrible and his opponents sucked so bad, then how was he named fighter of the decade in the 90's by the bwaa??? how could the boxing writers be fooled into giving such an important award to an unproven, media creation.

If you believe everything the boxing writers say then I can see why would think Jones could leap tall buildings in a single bound...

klompton wrote:If you believe everything the boxing writers say then I can see why would think Jones could leap tall buildings in a single bound...

boxing writers for the most part hate jones. it's rare that anything good is ever written about him.

bjermaine wrote:

klompton wrote:Roy Jones never fought ANYONE even close to Tunney's reputation or skill level including Toney how is this overrated, unproven, media creation going to beat a legitimate all time great?

HOW?? how about speed. jones is too fast for tunney. i have a lot of respect for tunney and his skill level. even though he didn't cross the color line he was great. but when i watch films of tunney and then watch films of jones, there's no way i can pick against jones in a prime vs prime matchup.

It's because you're a combination of dazzled by hi-definition television & a hopeless fanboy for Roy --- who rarely crossed the talent line, where his opposition is concerned.

It's funny how you make the point over & over about Tunney not fighting blacks (a complete red herring) when his resume literally takes on giant sh!t on Jones'.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
It's because you're a combination of dazzled by hi-definition television & a hopeless fanboy for Roy --- who rarely crossed the talent line, where his opposition is concerned.

It's funny how you make the point over & over about Tunney not fighting blacks (a complete red herring) when his resume literally takes on giant sh!t on Jones'.

sure, tunney beat the better opposition in his time. it's not even close. if you rank tunney higher than jones on your all-time great fighter list, i won't argue with you. my point is that if tunney and jones would have ever fought prime vs prime, jones would be too fast imo, high def or not.

I've always taken the stand Jones would have some great early rounds against Tunney, precisely because of his speed & athleticism. I've even gone so far as to say in an eight or ten-rounder, Jones puts too much money in the bank early on & steals it.

Thing is, Tunney had so damn much in all departments. He was a bitterly-determined fellow --- his tenacity forged in battle against one of the most brilliant exponents of our fair sport, the great Harry Greb. He was teak-tough --- quick to recover, & sporting an iron jaw. He was dilligent in his prepping --- one of the earliest-known observers of opponent film --- & he was vigilant in the ring at all times --- almost never off his feet, not just because of his chin, but because he made so few defensive errors. You see other great defensive fighters like Pernell Whitaker, or Larry Holmes --- they make the odd mistake, or get careless on occasion, but Tunney virtually never let it slide.

He was a superb adjustment-maker mid-fight. He also hit harder than most realise, hurting the famously-tough Dempsey on more than one occasion. He was speedy of hand & foot (though would concede ground to Jones here).

I can't see Jones (anyone, really) beating Tunney with natural talent alone. "The King Of Cool," as he was once labelled, was just too adaptable. His jab, also, would give Jones a lot of trouble. It flew straight & true, & almost never missed even elusive targets.

Tunney UD15. If nothing else, he deserves the benefit of any doubt by virtue of the adversaries he bested.

bjermaine wrote:

klompton wrote:If you believe everything the boxing writers say then I can see why would think Jones could leap tall buildings in a single bound...

boxing writers for the most part hate jones. it's rare that anything good is ever written about him.

It was the boxing writers who had him rated above and away the #1 P4P fighter in the world before Tarver knocked him out.

If that isn't generous, then what is?

My2Sense wrote: It was the boxing writers who had him rated above and away the #1 P4P fighter in the world before Tarver knocked him out.

If that isn't generous, then what is?

uh, yeah, they had to rank him that. who else was there? the articles that are written about him are usually not flattering and criticize him and his career. read a ron borges article on jones if you want to see what i'm talking about.

How dare they

Robinson wrote:Gentleman Gene Tunney at his best vs these men...

tell me how you see these fights playing out etc

peak for peak matches..


vs James J Corbett

vs James J Jeffries

vs Jack Johnson

vs Harold Johnson

vs Roy Jones Jr

vs Ezzard Charles

Thanks guys../..

I think Tunney probably destroys Corbett. I think Gentleman Jim is one of the more overrated champs in history. His only significant fights prior to Sullivan were an all-too-short 6 round decision over Jake Kilrain and a 61-round stalemate with the estimable Peter Jackson. He was a skilled boxer, but his only real claim to fame was knocking out a John L. Sullivan that was trying to shake off 4 years of ring rust (that's right...4 years) and hadn't fought anything above a rank novice since Jack Burke 7 years before (and even that was only a 5-round decision). Corbett also beat Charley Mitchell soundly, who would today be classified as a Super Middleweight, but who had been an undersized welterweight earlier in his career. It's a little like giving young Evander Holyfield credit if he KO'd Oscar De La Hoya. Not a fair fight at all. After that (I'll concede, post-prime), he never won another (on-the-level) fight, including a KO loss to another Super Middleweight, the great Bob Fitzsimmons. I think if Corbett fights to survive, he could last maybe 5 rounds or so, but he'd be dominated and lose by knockout eventually, even against a slick boxer-type like Tunney, who was also the bigger man.

Tough call with Jeffries. Jeff was much bigger and the much harder puncher and stronger guy, and was pretty dominant during his prime. I'm not really sure that he could cut off the ring against Tunney any more than Dempsey could, though. If the fight is set for 15 rounds or less, and I had to bet on it, I'd pick Tunney by decision. On the other hand, I'd say there's a 20-30% chance that Jeffries catches Tunney with a devastating shot or two (as Dempsey did) and gives himself a shot at a KO win.

I think Tunney wins by decision or late knockout against Jack Johnson. Watching the film on Johnson, he was a rather wild brawler, often putting himself way off balance to throw big shots, and I think Tunney's superior footwork and jab would serve him well in this matchup. I could see Johnson going down multiple times on counterpunches that don't hurt him, but catch him off balance, with the possibility of a late KO due to accumulation of punches.

I don't know Harold Johnson well enough to posit an opinion on that matchup.

A fight with Roy Jones would be intriguing, if not particularly exciting. I'd expect a close decision either way with a lot of potential swing rounds. Both guys were tricky to hit in their prime. I would say if the fight were at a cruiser/heavyweight level, Tunney would be likely to win, while if it was at LHW, I'd give Jones the edge. I consider Tunney's prime to be after he moved up to heavy, especially from the Gibbons fight on to his retirement. He continually improved himself over the course of his career, and I think that he was vulnerable at light heavy, especially against a guy as strong at that weight as Jones was. Greb, great as he was, was a smaller guy when he gave Tunney so many fits in their fights. Tunney also had trouble with a young and much smaller Tommy Loughran, fighting to essentially a draw with him.

Charles would be a tossup. These guys were very similar fighters. I'd say from what we know, Tunney probably had the better chin, and so I think any edge would have to go to him, although again I think if this is a light heavyweight fight, Charles would have an excellent chance. Probably a tough bout to score because there'd be a lot of half-landed jabs to sort out.

Robinson wrote:Gentleman Gene Tunney at his best vs these men...

tell me how you see these fights playing out etc

peak for peak matches..


vs James J Corbett

vs James J Jeffries

vs Jack Johnson

vs Harold Johnson

vs Roy Jones Jr

vs Ezzard Charles

Thanks guys../..

My opinions:

W15 over Corbett
W15 over Jeffries
D15 w/ J. Johnson (could go either way)
W15 over Charles
KO12 over H. Johnson
KO8 over Jones

vs James J Corbett W 15

vs James J Jeffries L KO 12

vs Jack Johnson L KO 9

vs Harold Johnson L 15

vs Roy Jones Jr L KO 6

vs Ezzard Charles L KO10

Terrific battle between Jeffries & Tunney. Tunney never faced anyone with Jeffries' combination of power, size, raw, brute strength in the clinch, heart & chin combined.

Twelve or fifteen rounds, Tunney was tough enough (should he need to be) & quick & clever enough to pull a fairly lopsided decision, which I suspect he would do (definitely, I would favour him over twelve). However, Jeffries' time, where twenty or more rounds were common-place, is no less legitimate a round-limit than Tunney's, so the outcome may very well hinge on the distance, & the last twenty-rounder, for instance, wasn't fought until some time after Tunney retired, anyway.

I bet this is one fight where negotiations center on the round-scheduling as much as money, or anything else.

I will go with Tunney decisions against all but Jones, who I believe he would fight to a draw . . .

Interesting thread. I think Tunney actually wins all these fights except *possibly* Jeffries. The Jeffries fight could go either way, but Jim was just so big and strong...it all depends how many round it went. Anything 15 and under, Tunney. Anything over 15, Jeffries.

i'll second that

Robinson wrote:Gentleman Gene Tunney at his best vs these men...
Thanks guys../..

vs James J Corbett
Tunney KO6

vs James J Jeffries
Tunney W12

vs Jack Johnson
draw

vs Harold Johnson
Johnson W12

vs Roy Jones Jr
Jones W TKO7

vs Ezzard Charles
Charles W KO11

I was about to contest Corbett capitulating in just six rounds to Tunney, but then I saw this...

"...Jones TKO7 Tunney..."



(More than a little surprised you see Charles levelling a teak-tough Tunney for the count, too).

Yeah I thought that might get some flak. I don't see anyone comparable to Jones on Tunney's record. He drew with Loughran. His higher quality opposition he went the distance or drew with. He lost to Greb, great and yes he did beat him also, but a middleweight. What would we say if Larry Holmes had fought and lost to Hagler?

So is he ready for Roy Jones? We'll never know but I'd put my money on Jones. My answers are based on my wallet and I don't bet with my heart but my head! Same goes w/Corbett. Tunney figures him out in a few rds, cuts the ring off and sends him packing.