BoxRec

I don't know, for some reason this guys career interests me. He's a perfect example of a club-fighter, but he won a world title. He fought no-body after no-body, most of his fights in Oklahoma City. He's got one of the most padded records I've seen - 86 fights in total, almost completely against guys with losing records or records like 2-2-0. Then he manages to win a world title against Hilmer Kenty, and then he gets stripped. Then he retires at 24 and starts a broadcasting career. A strange boxing career. Thoughts?

rmz wrote:I don't know, for some reason this guys career interests me. He's a perfect example of a club-fighter, but he won a world title. He fought no-body after no-body, most of his fights in Oklahoma City. He's got one of the most padded records I've seen - 86 fights in total, almost completely against guys with losing records or records like 2-2-0. Then he manages to win a world title against Hilmer Kenty, and then he gets stripped. Then he retires at 24 and starts a broadcasting career. A strange boxing career. Thoughts?

I thought he had a crowd-pleasing style.

His fight with Jim Watt was exciting.

Sean was no clubfighter. He could really fight and won the WBA lightweight title with a dazzling 15-round decision over Hilmer Kenty in 1981, in a big upset. "The Green Machine" had Kenty down twice.

bennie wrote:Sean was no clubfighter. He could really fight and won the WBA lightweight title with a dazzling 15-round decision over Hilmer Kenty in 1981, in a big upset. "The Green Machine" had Kenty down twice.

That's what makes his career so interesting. He obviously was pretty talented yet his management had him fighting a bunch of nobodies in club shows for five years straight.

rmz wrote:

bennie wrote:Sean was no clubfighter. He could really fight and won the WBA lightweight title with a dazzling 15-round decision over Hilmer Kenty in 1981, in a big upset. "The Green Machine" had Kenty down twice.

That's what makes his career so interesting. He obviously was pretty talented yet his management had him fighting a bunch of nobodies in club shows for five years straight.

His manager was also his father who, shall we say, did things somewhat differently.

bennie wrote:

rmz wrote:

bennie wrote:Sean was no clubfighter. He could really fight and won the WBA lightweight title with a dazzling 15-round decision over Hilmer Kenty in 1981, in a big upset. "The Green Machine" had Kenty down twice.

That's what makes his career so interesting. He obviously was pretty talented yet his management had him fighting a bunch of nobodies in club shows for five years straight.

His manager was also his father who, shall we say, did things somewhat differently.

That's just the way Pat developed fighters. His first fighter of note was a welterweight named Mel Barker, a pretty good fighter. Pat matched him around the country and, if you look at his record, he fought alot of top guys, but his career didn't go anywhere.

Pat decided after that that the way to go was to keep a fighter at home, build up his record, and occasionally match him with somebody who would put a "name" on his record to move him into the rankings. The long win stretch would also serve to build up his confidence. Then negotiate for a title shot. Occasionally, he would give the fighter a "test," such as when he matched Sean with Danny Lopez, but it was mostly a "safety-first" policy.

A handful of his guys got title shots, but only Sean won a championship.

i agree that he had one of the weirdest careers ever. started pro career at 15 and had only one big win in 86 fights, then out of the game at 24. he was great with al alberts on tuesday night fights. it's hard not to love "the champ".

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote:[quote="rmz"

His manager was also his father who, shall we say, did things somewhat differently.

That's just the way Pat developed fighters. His first fighter of note was a welterweight named Mel Barker, a pretty good fighter. Pat matched him around the country and, if you look at his record, he fought alot of top guys, but his career didn't go anywhere.

Pat decided after that that the way to go was to keep a fighter at home, build up his record, and occasionally match him with somebody who would put a "name" on his record to move him into the rankings. The long win stretch would also serve to build up his confidence. Then negotiate for a title shot. Occasionally, he would give the fighter a "test," such as when he matched Sean with Danny Lopez, but it was mostly a "safety-first" policy.

A handful of his guys got title shots, but only Sean won a championship.

I just can't seem to forget Monte Masters

ghoster wrote:I just can't seem to forget Monte Masters

Or Humphrey McBride

He did have a very brief shelf-life.
HIs fights with Watt and Kenty showed he could fight. People tend to forget Kenty was a rising star until he fought O'Grady, who beat the crap out of Kenty's body. He was ahead of Watt on points in Watt's Scotland before seeing the fight was stopped because of a cut eye. After winning the title at 22 he seemed to lose his shock absorbers. I remember being surprised how ordinary he looked against an end-of-his-career Peter Ranzany and an exposed Verderosa

giacomino wrote:He did have a very brief shelf-life.
HIs fights with Watt and Kenty showed he could fight. People tend to forget Kenty was a rising star until he fought O'Grady, who beat the crap out of Kenty's body. He was ahead of Watt on points in Watt's Scotland before seeing the fight was stopped because of a cut eye. After winning the title at 22 he seemed to lose his shock absorbers. I remember being surprised how ordinary he looked against an end-of-his-career Peter Ranzany and an exposed Verderosa

Are you sure he was ahead on points? I would contest that.

Watt was ahead on all three cards, even the American judge's. (Ring Record Book, 1981.)

Although I haven't seen the fight in many many years, I seem to recall that despite the 2 cards, Sean was doing quite well against Watt until the cut, which many observers thought was from a head butt. The cut was quite severe and Watt assumed control of the fight and was ahead at the time of the stoppage, but the fight was not without controversy.

No, it was not without controversey but it is a myth that O'Grady was dominating the fight.

bennie wrote:No, it was not without controversey but it is a myth that O'Grady was dominating the fight.

Not sure many would say that he dominated Watt, but I seem to remember that he was winning the fight until the cut, which caused him to fight more defensively. He fought very well against a very good fighter in his back yard.

bennie wrote:

giacomino wrote:He did have a very brief shelf-life.
HIs fights with Watt and Kenty showed he could fight. People tend to forget Kenty was a rising star until he fought O'Grady, who beat the crap out of Kenty's body. He was ahead of Watt on points in Watt's Scotland before seeing the fight was stopped because of a cut eye. After winning the title at 22 he seemed to lose his shock absorbers. I remember being surprised how ordinary he looked against an end-of-his-career Peter Ranzany and an exposed Verderosa

Are you sure he was ahead on points? I would contest that.

I watched the fight and I seem to remember O'Grady being ahead, but that was 30 years ago my memory might be hazy. Boxrec lists the same scores as Ring, but makes it an O-Grady sweep at the time of the stoppage. (Yes, Ring can be wrong). If I remember correctly, the ending was controversial because the cut appeared to be caused by a headbutt but the ref declared it came from a punch. Had it been ruled a butt, it would have gone to the scorecards and O'Grady would have won. However, because the ref ruled it a punch, it was declared a KO win for Watt

giacomino wrote:If I remember correctly, the ending was controversial because the cut appeared to be caused by a headbutt but the ref declared it came from a punch. Had it been ruled a butt, it would have gone to the scorecards and O'Grady would have won. However, because the ref ruled it a punch, it was declared a KO win for Watt

Exactly.

I also thought O'Grady should've been ahead in the fight too, regardless of what the scorecards actually said.

giacomino wrote:

bennie wrote:

giacomino wrote:He did have a very brief shelf-life.
HIs fights with Watt and Kenty showed he could fight. People tend to forget Kenty was a rising star until he fought O'Grady, who beat the crap out of Kenty's body. He was ahead of Watt on points in Watt's Scotland before seeing the fight was stopped because of a cut eye. After winning the title at 22 he seemed to lose his shock absorbers. I remember being surprised how ordinary he looked against an end-of-his-career Peter Ranzany and an exposed Verderosa

Are you sure he was ahead on points? I would contest that.

I watched the fight and I seem to remember O'Grady being ahead, but that was 30 years ago my memory might be hazy. Boxrec lists the same scores as Ring, but makes it an O-Grady sweep at the time of the stoppage. (Yes, Ring can be wrong). If I remember correctly, the ending was controversial because the cut appeared to be caused by a headbutt but the ref declared it came from a punch. Had it been ruled a butt, it would have gone to the scorecards and O'Grady would have won. However, because the ref ruled it a punch, it was declared a KO win for Watt

Boxrec is wrong. It has the scores the wrong way round (look above and they have Watt outpointing Arguello).

Two facts:
1) Watt outboxed O'Grady for much of the fight.
2) The underrated Watt was badly cut long before O'Grady.

giacomino wrote:He did have a very brief shelf-life.
HIs fights with Watt and Kenty showed he could fight. People tend to forget Kenty was a rising star until he fought O'Grady, who beat the crap out of Kenty's body. He was ahead of Watt on points in Watt's Scotland before seeing the fight was stopped because of a cut eye. After winning the title at 22 he seemed to lose his shock absorbers. I remember being surprised how ordinary he looked against an end-of-his-career Peter Ranzany and an exposed Verderosa

I first got to know Sean when he was 11 or 12-years-old. In all the time that I knew him, all he ever talked about was winning the title. He never talked about being a world champion. That may seem like a distinction without a difference, but it's not. Sean's goal was to win the title. I think after he beat Kenty, he felt like he had achieved his goal and the rest was anti-climatic.

Bennie: You wrote "Boxrec is wrong. It has the scores the wrong way round (look above and they have Watt outpointing Arguello"

I checked. Boxrec has Arguello beating Watt 147-143, 147-137. 147-143

giacomino wrote:Bennie: You wrote "Boxrec is wrong. It has the scores the wrong way round (look above and they have Watt outpointing Arguello"

I checked. Boxrec has Arguello beating Watt 147-143, 147-137. 147-143

Yes, but the scores are reversed, just like the Watt-O'Grady scores, so it reads 143-147, 137-147 and 143-147. Boxrec do it all the time and it is annoying.

bennie wrote:

giacomino wrote:Bennie: You wrote "Boxrec is wrong. It has the scores the wrong way round (look above and they have Watt outpointing Arguello"

I checked. Boxrec has Arguello beating Watt 147-143, 147-137. 147-143

Yes, but the scores are reversed, just like the Watt-O'Grady scores, so it reads 143-147, 137-147 and 143-147. Boxrec do it all the time and it is annoying.

bennie, it depends on whose record you are looking at. The first score listed is that of the person whose record you are reading.

Thus, on Arguello's record, the score for the Watt fight is reported:
referee: Arthur Mercante | judge: Frank Holbach 147-143 | judge: Dick Young 147-137 | judge: Robert Desgain 147-143

And on Watt's record, the fight is reported as:
referee: Arthur Mercante | judge: Frank Holbach 143-147 | judge: Dick Young 137-147 | judge: Robert Desgain 143-147

When you look at the Watt and O'Grady records, BoxRec reports that O'Grady was winning at the time of the stoppage.

From Watt's record:
referee: Raymond Baldeyrou 105-109 | judge: Harry Gibbs 104-108 | judge: Arthur Mercante 103-104

From O'Gradys' record:
referee: Raymond Baldeyrou 109-105 | judge: Harry Gibbs 108-104 | judge: Arthur Mercante 104-103

Anyone have the Boxing News issue covering that fight?

I seem to recall it featured a photo of The Bubblegum Bomber on the cover above the caption "Bloody Hell!".

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote:

giacomino wrote:Bennie: You wrote "Boxrec is wrong. It has the scores the wrong way round (look above and they have Watt outpointing Arguello"

I checked. Boxrec has Arguello beating Watt 147-143, 147-137. 147-143

Yes, but the scores are reversed, just like the Watt-O'Grady scores, so it reads 143-147, 137-147 and 143-147. Boxrec do it all the time and it is annoying.

bennie, it depends on whose record you are looking at. The first score listed is that of the person whose record you are reading.

Thus, on Arguello's record, the score for the Watt fight is reported:
referee: Arthur Mercante | judge: Frank Holbach 147-143 | judge: Dick Young 147-137 | judge: Robert Desgain 147-143

And on Watt's record, the fight is reported as:
referee: Arthur Mercante | judge: Frank Holbach 143-147 | judge: Dick Young 137-147 | judge: Robert Desgain 143-147

When you look at the Watt and O'Grady records, BoxRec reports that O'Grady was winning at the time of the stoppage.

From Watt's record:
referee: Raymond Baldeyrou 105-109 | judge: Harry Gibbs 104-108 | judge: Arthur Mercante 103-104

From O'Gradys' record:
referee: Raymond Baldeyrou 109-105 | judge: Harry Gibbs 108-104 | judge: Arthur Mercante 104-103

This is becoming rather tedious. Watt was ahead. Boxrec is plain wrong on that score.