BoxRec

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I'm at the end of rd 6. Woods is getting beaten up now. Is it just me or was this a winnable fight for Woods? This is how I see it: Cloud comes out bombing and Woods backs to the ropes soaks it up on his gloves and elbows then starts to box. Cloud seems surprised and is, to an extent, schooled for the rest of rd 1 and certainly rd 2. Woods was slipping, rolling and landing left hooks, stiff jabs and uppercuts; certainly not throwing as much as Cloud but landing almost as many in rd 1 (according to the stats) and 10 more in rd 2. Did Cloud then change his gameplan to turn the fight around? No! He continued to throw eye-catching combinations (many of his blows being blocked) and worked the body well. So how did he take over? To me, he seemed to step his workrate up a little and Woods would not or could not go with him. He was clearly the better man technically but allowed Cloud to dictate the pace from the front foot. There was a bit at the end of rd 5 when Woods turned Cloud in the corner and popped our several jabs. Cloud simply covered up and stayed in the corner, no attempt to roll out or throw a counter. When the Woods jab was busy, Cloud really struggled, when Woods was on the front foot, Cloud struggled but once Woods allowed Cloud to come forward, he dominated the fight. Listen, Cloud is relatively fast-handed and can hit but he's no slickster; Dawson would play with him. It just seems Woods either got his tactics wrong or (my belief) did not have the legs to continue fighting the whole fight as he had in the first three rounds. Those body shots certainly helped too, as Woods barely took a clean shot to the head in rds 1-3 but from 5 onwards, the arms begin to drop a little, as a result of those body shots plus Clinton's tiredness.

Thoughts?

Cloud looks riped

I've finished the 3rd I have Cloud 1 up he is a bit wild and can be countered Woods is doing well countering but Cloud keeps coming very enjoyable fight

Even though I know the result im still cheering Woods on D

6 rounds gone im very impressed with Clouds workrate and body-punching he is a vey fit lad. Its starting to look more 1 sided I gave the 2nd to Woods and thats it so far. Counters are still working for Woods he just cant keep up with Cloud's workrate

9 rounds gone and Woods has shown a great chin but isnt throwing enough he looks gone Cloud is still open to counters I think someone like Dawson or Hopkins would catch Cloud coming in and punish him more than Woods he is game but doesnt have the workrate or quality to keep Cloud off

Its missing the last round!

I gave Woods the 2nd and the 11th it was 1 sided Cloud was very impressive, great fitness, good body-punching and good power I was also impressed with the way he kept the middle of the ring even though he was a good bit shorter than Woods

alexpaterson wrote:Its missing the last round!

I gave Woods the 2nd and the 11th it was 1 sided Cloud was very impressive, great fitness, good body-punching and good power I was also impressed with the way he kept the middle of the ring even though he was a good bit shorter than Woods

i have it up now mate check the anderson silva sparring a hw boxer on my page aswell

alexpaterson wrote:Its missing the last round!

I gave Woods the 2nd and the 11th it was 1 sided Cloud was very impressive, great fitness, good body-punching and good power I was also impressed with the way he kept the middle of the ring even though he was a good bit shorter than Woods

Yeah but I felt Woods leaned in a lot, neglecting his reach advantage.

Definetly he didnt use his reach also I felt he didnt make the most of the countering opportunities as Cloud was open but he showed great heart and a good chin fair play to him for that

alexpaterson wrote:Definetly he didnt use his reach also I felt he didnt make the most of the countering opportunities as Cloud was open but he showed great heart and a good chin fair play to him for that

The Clinton of five years ago might have won that.

I had it 118-110 I see Dawson and Hopkins beating Cloud by punishing him with hard sharp counters but he is a very fit and strong young man

alexpaterson wrote:I had it 118-110 I see Dawson and Hopkins beating Cloud by punishing him with hard sharp counters but he is a very fit and strong young man

yeh i had it 118-110.. i think allegedly will try and get cleverly a fight with cloud now..cloud is nothing special but he is good..for me cleverly would outbox him easily with his long reach..cloud is very short for light-heavyweight..brave display from clinton

dbflex wrote:I'm at the end of rd 6. Woods is getting beaten up now. Is it just me or was this a winnable fight for Woods? This is how I see it: Cloud comes out bombing and Woods backs to the ropes soaks it up on his gloves and elbows then starts to box. Cloud seems surprised and is, to an extent, schooled for the rest of rd 1 and certainly rd 2. Woods was slipping, rolling and landing left hooks, stiff jabs and uppercuts; certainly not throwing as much as Cloud but landing almost as many in rd 1 (according to the stats) and 10 more in rd 2. Did Cloud then change his gameplan to turn the fight around? No! He continued to throw eye-catching combinations (many of his blows being blocked) and worked the body well. So how did he take over? To me, he seemed to step his workrate up a little and Woods would not or could not go with him. He was clearly the better man technically but allowed Cloud to dictate the pace from the front foot. There was a bit at the end of rd 5 when Woods turned Cloud in the corner and popped our several jabs. Cloud simply covered up and stayed in the corner, no attempt to roll out or throw a counter. When the Woods jab was busy, Cloud really struggled, when Woods was on the front foot, Cloud struggled but once Woods allowed Cloud to come forward, he dominated the fight. Listen, Cloud is relatively fast-handed and can hit but he's no slickster; Dawson would play with him. It just seems Woods either got his tactics wrong or (my belief) did not have the legs to continue fighting the whole fight as he had in the first three rounds. Those body shots certainly helped too, as Woods barely took a clean shot to the head in rds 1-3 but from 5 onwards, the arms begin to drop a little, as a result of those body shots plus Clinton's tiredness.

Thoughts?

The simple answer to your questions is.....

That Woods is past it and has always found it difficult when fighting guys with fast hand speed. Wood's has no punch power of his own and very little guille, but has won his fights out of sheer determination and attrition. At 37, that aspect of his fighting style is waining fast and with the style and youth of Cloud, it all just caught up with him. Woods has always been a Euro level fighter, who can mix it on the fringes of the world scene. He has had a good career, made some money and won a world title. All that would have seemed an impossibility some years back, so all credit to him, but he should now retire.

gemmell wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:I had it 118-110 I see Dawson and Hopkins beating Cloud by punishing him with hard sharp counters but he is a very fit and strong young man

yeh i had it 118-110.. i think allegedly will try and get cleverly a fight with cloud now..cloud is nothing special but he is good..for me cleverly would outbox him easily with his long reach..cloud is very short for light-heavyweight..brave display from clinton

It would be a very tough fight for Clev he hasnt fought anyone as fit or powerful as Cloud but Clev is a good boxer and Cloud can be outboxed it wouldn't surprise me if Clev won by UD but I could also see Cloud winning by TKO but it would be a good fight

alexpaterson wrote:

gemmell wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:I had it 118-110 I see Dawson and Hopkins beating Cloud by punishing him with hard sharp counters but he is a very fit and strong young man

yeh i had it 118-110.. i think allegedly will try and get cleverly a fight with cloud now..cloud is nothing special but he is good..for me cleverly would outbox him easily with his long reach..cloud is very short for light-heavyweight..brave display from clinton

It would be a very tough fight for Clev he hasnt fought anyone as fit or powerful as Cloud but Clev is a good boxer and Cloud can be outboxed it wouldn't surprise me if Clev won by UD but I could also see Cloud winning by TKO but it would be a good fight

I seriously doubt whether Cleverley is at the stage in his career to take on the likes of Cloud. Whilst i don't particulalry rate Cloud very highly, i think it would be a step too far for Cleverley.

I seriously doubt whether Cleverley is at the stage in his career to take on the likes of Cloud. Whilst i don't particulalry rate Cloud very highly, i think it would be a step too far for Cleverley.

I disagree. Cloud is vulnerable to a rangy, technically sound boxer with power and a good jab. remind u of anyone? Woods had the skills but not the strength and fitness. Clev is v strong and v fit. hed beat Cloud IMO

dbflex wrote:

I seriously doubt whether Cleverley is at the stage in his career to take on the likes of Cloud. Whilst i don't particulalry rate Cloud very highly, i think it would be a step too far for Cleverley.

I disagree. Cloud is vulnerable to a rangy, technically sound boxer with power and a good jab. remind u of anyone? Woods had the skills but not the strength and fitness. Clev is v strong and v fit. hed beat Cloud IMO

I would agree with you, in say 18 months time, when Cleverly has been tested by more experienced fighters, with a higher pedigree than he has fought to date. Regarding Woods, i think he has always struggled with fighters who have fast hands, but i agree with you, that age mean't he was struggling for stamina. Woods would have won that fight three or four years ago.

dbflex wrote:

I seriously doubt whether Cleverley is at the stage in his career to take on the likes of Cloud. Whilst i don't particulalry rate Cloud very highly, i think it would be a step too far for Cleverley.

I disagree. Cloud is vulnerable to a rangy, technically sound boxer with power and a good jab. remind u of anyone? Woods had the skills but not the strength and fitness. Clev is v strong and v fit. hed beat Cloud IMO

Who exactly has Cleverly beat so far to make you think he'd have any chance against Cloud apart from beating some average domestic Fighters and some obscure africans? Infact i think he'd struggle to beat some light heavy gate keepers like Yusaf Mack and Chris Henry let alone a soon to be Great world champion like Cloud.

If that Fight happened now Cleverly would be exposed bigtime, it'd be a one sided beat down like Cotto/Jennings and Pavlik/Lockett.

Cloud wants to Fight only the best now especially Dawson but doubt that Fight will happen till 2010 so i hope he stays active against some tough opposition.

Soon to be great? Based on what? victories over the Shot Twins, Woods and Gonzalez? or on limited technical ability and average footwork. Look, Cloud is more advanced than Cleverly right now, no dispute but Nathan has no major obvious weakness and is only 22; his potential is virtually limitless. Even against domestic opposition, certain universal qualities have become apparent, like composure...

...adaptability and mental strength. could he slip up? of course but his skill set, the overall package, makes him a better long term bet than Cloud IMO. Maybe when he takes the EBU belt this season you'll come round to my way of thinking. And maybe Diaz beat Malignaggi lol.

I really hope Cleverley progresses in the manner you outline Danny but I'd dread the thought of him getting in the ring with Cloud at this point in his career as it could be a confidence-shattering defeat - and at the moment his self-belief is among his greatest assets.
Let's see where they are respectively in two years...

Deserter wrote:Let's see where they are respectively in two years...

I take your point but its hardly Toks Owoh v Glen Johnson. Clev hasnt been feasting on nobodies and b4 the Gonzalez fight, his record was better than Cloud's. 2 years? If he wins the EBU by xmas then it may be better to judge in one. Its a shame he likely won't fight Woods as a barometer.

dbflex wrote:

Deserter wrote:Let's see where they are respectively in two years...

I take your point but its hardly Toks Owoh v Glen Johnson. Clev hasnt been feasting on nobodies and b4 the Gonzalez fight, his record was better than Cloud's. 2 years? If he wins the EBU by xmas then it may be better to judge in one. Its a shame he likely won't fight Woods as a barometer.

Now there's a blast from the past - with hindsight Johnson was completely under-rated at the time. I genuinely though Owoh was going to be a serious challenge for Calzaghe as he seemed to be making big waves, but he never got over that defeat.
As for comparisons, while I'm a big fan of his, I think Clev has been feasting on relative nobodies and it represents too big a leap for him at his point in time.
Much like the Johnson defeat really hurt Owoh's ascent, a fight with Cloud could do the same for Clev. He's young and still maturing so I'd undoubtedly prefer to err on the side of caution and see a more gradual progression in his career.

Oakey, Vegas and McIntosh may be nobodies at world level but they are good domestic fighters. Had Cloud beaten anyone better pre Gonzalez? Had Bradley pre Witter? Big leaps in class can be made successfully if the ability and belief are there.