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Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 01 Sep 2009, 06:17
by robert.snell1
The Boxing Biographies Newsletter
Volume 5 - No 5 1st Sept , 2009
www.boxingbiographies.com

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Bartley Madden
Name: Bartley Madden
Career Record: click
Nationality: Irish
Hometown: New York, New York, USA
Born: 1890-09-01
Died: 1930-03-05
Age at Death: 39
Height: 5′ 10½″
Madden died at a Washington, D.C., USA, hospital from injuries received in a 20-foot fall from a landing at the Treasury Building. His wife had died only three weeks earlier.

The Bridgeport Telegram
23 May 1918
THIRD MEETING FOR MADDEN –LEVINSKY IN THEIR LOCAL BOUT

Heavyweight Scrapsters have Clashed TwiceWill Be First Bout In Some Months For Each
The battlers on the fistic card of the Laksco Club for Monday night are tuning up for the conflicts and all promise to be in the right shape when the gong sounds for the start of the bouts.
Bartley Madden of New York who will toe the mark against Battling Levinsky in the main event of 15 rounds seems confident according to the word from New York that he will have the good fortune to stop Levinsky. He seems to be inclined to the view says the report that he has boxed Levinsky twice and knows the latter's style so thoroughly that he anticipates little trouble in reaching Levinsky with some hard punches and he figures that Levinsky is unable to assimilate much punishment.

Consequently Madden looks to halt Levinsky before the end of the fifteen rounds have been reached. Of course Levinsky will have the opportunity of balking the kayo and will be the favorite to outpoint Madden but the New Yorker is liable to crop in with a surprise and hand Levinsky a walloping. Neither Levinsky nor Madden have appeared in the ring for several months and both are eager to get back in the harness where the money lies. Both will weigh between 180 and 190 pounds and consequently there will not be more than10 pounds difference in their weights at the most, it is more than likely.

Levinsky is working out every afternoon at the Laksco club on.Seaview avenue utilizing the gymnasium there for the purpose. Joe Smith, trainer of Levinsky, says the battler will be in grand shape for the bout with Madden and incidentally for the bout at the Red Cross show in Madison Square Garden tomorrow night with Jim .Coffey who was kayoed by Madden.in the bout in New York on August 10, 1914, Madden was credited with holding Levinsky even by some of those at the ringside and with outpointing; Levinsky by a narrow margin by others.

About five months ago Levinsky and Madden met in Boston and the referee's decision was a draw. The award did not meet with the approval of the boxing writers of the Boston papers who stated that the decision should have gone to Levinsky.

The Lincoln Star
10 June 1924
Negro Unable To Kayo Irishman
Wills Gives Madden Severe Beating, But Latter On Feet At Finish
Judges Award The Decision To Black Fighter At End Of fifteen Rounds

The prestige of Harry Wills as a contender for the heavyweight title is materially diminished today as a result of his failure to obtain no better than a judges verdict over Bartley Madden. New York Irishman with whom he fought a colorless, though bloody, 15-round bout in the Queensboro A. C. stadium. Long Island City, last night.

Wills victory was decisive enough and as clean cut as a point verdict could be. The game Irishman took all that his massive negro opponent could send. Madden fought a purely defensive fight. He was loudly cheered by the spectators for his gameness.

BY JAMES L. KILGALLEN.

Harry Wills. the negro challenger of Jack Dempsey is slowly giving quarter to that invisible fighter. Father Time. Wills even his staunchest admirers admitted today, is slowing down under the burden or years. He failed to knock out Bartley Madden, the fighting Irishman in fifteen rounds here last night and suffered an almost irreparable loss of prestige

The negro, 6 feet 3 inches and weighing 213 pounds, was as menacing a looking physical specimen as ever crawled through the ropes. He seemed in superb condition. Long, lean race horsey, splendidly proportioned, with long, powerful arms tremendous shoulders and slim waist, he looked a 100 per cent better fighter than pudgy 185 pound Bartley Madden.

Not The Wills Of Old

But something was wrong with Wills, despite his splendid appearance. He had speed, but not the flashing speed of old. He had agility, but not any more than Bartley. He had power but not enough to put Bartley away. And he seemed to tire easily. The brown panther, his body steaming with perspiration and his face in perpetual scowl, tried round after round, to shoot through a knockout punch, but Madden was in there to stay the limit and he stayed.

Irishman Game Receiver.

Wills discarded his long range punching and attempted to beat Madden with short, rapid jolts to the face or slashing blows to the body. He cut Madden's face to ribbons. He rocked him almost off his feet on several occasions. He pounded and mauled and slashed and held and scowled, but he couldn't subdue the fighting Irishman. He won thirteen of the fifteen rounds — all but the tenth and eleventh.

But the bloody faced Madden wouldn't go down. He had faced men almost as good as Wills, but none of them ever put him down . He had stayed ten rounds with Fred Fulton, three times he had gone the limit with Bill Brennan and he had held off for ten rounds the challenger of Dempsey, Tommy Gibbons.

Crowd Cheers Madden.

And when the gong rang at the end of the fifteen Madden stood there in the center of the ring, his bloody face wreathed smiles bowing to he cheering throng, a hero in defeat. Wills, tired, crawled through the ropes. He had won yet he had lost. Father Time seemed close upon him as he strode, with slightly bent shoulders and bowed head, to his dressing room.
· Was naturally left-handed and fought from both orthodox and southpaw stances avidly throughout his career.



Name: Willie Meehan
Career Record: click
Alias: Fat Boy/Eugene Walcott
Nationality: US American
Hometown: San Francisco, California, USA
Born: 1893-12-25
Died: 1953-02-09
Age at Death: 59
Height: 5′ 9″

Famous for never training or doing any roadwork whatsoever. He ate whatever and whenever he wanted. Fought in all divisions from flyweight to heavyweight. As a rotund heavyweight, it was said, "..He is so fat, blows do not make an impression on him, and he is so awkward, that even the cleverest of opponents can find no way to reach him effectively..." After his boxing career, Meehan became a production electrician for Hollywood movie studios.
Harry Greb Site's Willie Meehan page

Oakland Tribune
18 November 1918
Another kind of an "eternal triangle" has developed as a result of Fred Fulton's victory over Willie Meehan in San .Francisco Saturday night. Meehan whipped Jack Dempsey; Dempsey put Fulton to sleep in half a minute and now lanky Fred has a decision over Meehan to his credit. Which again goes to prove that "you never can tell." Some folks will attempt to make a quadrangle out of the mess by including Jess Willard, but.his Jesslets is through and has been for many a year. His refusal to meet a worthy opponent in a benefit bout has dropped the curtain on the Willard party.

Future developments in the heavyweight division will be awaited with interest. Meehan left for London yesterday morning to take part in the allied tournament and Fulton blew out for Los Angeles this forenoon. Dempsey is sticking around Chicago waiting for something to show up. Kearn’ s fighter was just out of opponents when, Fulton pried the lid off his pugilistic coffin and there is going to be a wild scramble among the promoters for the privilege of staging Jack and Fred in a return bout. California promoters are already bidding for the attraction, but the match will probably be decided in the east.

Fulton is a much smarter fellow than Californians were willing to give him credit for being. Meehan tried everything he knew Saturday night to get the plasterer's goat, but Fred's nanny refuses to stray and remained with him throughout the fight. Meehan was all primed with a line of comedy chatter to spring on Fulton when the eastern heavyweight entered the ring but Fulton never let his eyes rest on the sailor and Willie’ s stunt fell flat. When they lined up for the photographers Meehan again tried to act smart but Fulton had apparently been warned To guard against the goat-getting stuff and he never gave Willie a tumble.


In a final effort to rattle his man. Meehan refused to shake hands when the gong sounded. Referee Jim Griffin ordered the boys to touch gloves and Fulton extended his hand an requested. Meehan paid no attention to the outstretched paw, but made some remark not audible outside the ring.

During the fight Fulton surprised by keeping his head. When Willie tried the roundhouse and loop the loop punch the big fellow simply smiled, shoved his man off with his long left hand and then jabbed him half a dozen times. In the opening fighting poor Meehan looked like a novice. That tremendous reach of Fulton’s kept the sailor at his distance and Meehan had an awful time getting in close.

There is no denying that Meehan landed several blows on the tall Minnesotan, but it was the same old story, there was nothing behind them. Had Jack Dempsey hit Fulton as often as Meehan did Saturday night the jail and the morgue would both have an additional roomer today, even his famous left rip to the body failed to faze the plasterer and Willie was plainly discouraged as the battle progressed. He tried the well known and often successful last-minute rally, but Fulton was wise to that trick and came right back at the sailor and stacked up enough of a lead to take that round and also the fight.

Fulton whipped Meehan handily enough, but he is never going to be the heavyweight champion with only the defense he showed Saturday night. Fred was wide open as a barn door at times and a more crafty and harder hitting opponent than Meehan would probably have slipped him a ten-second sleeping potion. Time and again his jaw was exposed and it was easy to see how Dempsey dropped him so quickly. Of course Fulton may have been without respect for the Meehan punch, but he was taking an awful chance of slipping into oblivion by inviting swings to his talking apparatus. Fulton's greatest .assets are his height and reach. He has about the beat left hand in the game, today and there is a lot of force behind his southpaw jabs.

In the first round Meehan was either disconcerted or he tried to act smart. He let Fulton shoot half a dozen lefts to his face without attempting to block them and his many friends in the audience were on the anxious seat. Fulton was in a fair way to knock the sailor for a goal in the first two minutes o£ the opening round and the crowd stood in order to get a better view of the finish. But Meehan fooled them by coming back with some wicked body blows and he took the last minute of the round. Summing up the fight by rounds Fulton took three and Meehan had a slight, very slight, shade in the other, the second. It is now up to everybody to pick their own particular fighting heavyweight champion of the world.

Name: Bill Brennan
Career Record: click
Alias: Bill Shanks, KO Bill
Birth Name: Wilhelm Schenck
Nationality: US American
Hometown: Louisville, Kentucky, USA
Born: 1893-06-23
Died: 1924-06-15
Age at Death: 30
Height: 6′ 1″

Reno Evening Gazette
23 Jan 1920

Sporting Memories
By
Al Spink

The fight at Kenosha between Bill Brennan and Bartley Madden the other night, in which Bill won the decision after ten lively rounds of milling proves that big Bill's defeat at the hands of Jack Dempsey at Milwaukee in February. 1918 was a fluke, pure and simple.Madden, a magnificent looking man, game as a pebble and strong as a giant, battled all the way with Brennan and showed himself a fighter of the first class.

For the first three rounds it was even Stephen, but after that big Bill took the lead and led all the way. His splendid showing proves him the best heavyweight seen in these parts for a long while, and this does not even bar Dempsey.

Leo Flynn, Brennan's manager while here, told the whole story of Brennan's defeat by Dempsey. and it gives an entirely new coloring to that battle and proves than Brennan is fairly entitled to another chance at the champion. "It was in January, 1918," said Flynn, "that Brennan, while in New York, received two offers, one to fight Dempsey for a $1750 guaranty, and the other to meet Tom Cowler for a $1500 certainty. I asked Brennan which offer he wanted to accept and he replied: “Take the Dempsey offer. I know I can beat him and it's the best offer anyhow."

"Brennan had boxed with Dempsey in a New York gymnasium and he had no trouble with him. He thought he could beat him easily. So instead of training properly, Bill took things easily. When he faced Dempsey that night Bill weighed 21 pounds, or 30 pounds more than his best weight. In the second round of the fight Brennan slipped and broke his right ankle. While suffering from the break Dempsey was able to knock Bill down twice, but he got up, and on the one leg he fought five more rounds, and in the fifth round, with broken ankle
and all, he gave Dempsey a punch in the face that made him stagger to a far corner and stay there the balance of the round. And there he stayed until I threw a towel into the ring, considering it a crime to allow Brennan, in his condition, to go on any further.

Today Bill is so certain that he can whip either Carpentier or Dempsey that he will fight either on a winner-take all basis." As a matter of fact, Brennan has a much better record than Dempsey and is certainly entitled to a battle with the latter. As a Knocker-out, Brennan has beaten all records. Out of eighty-five fights he has scored sixty eight knock outs.

Unlike Dempsey, Brennan did not want to be drafted, but enlisted in the navy of his own free will and did his best in the war with the best of them Like Dempsey, he is only twenty-six years of age and like Dempsey too he is at this writing at the very top of his fighting power. Bartley Madden, whom Brennan outpointed, is a stronger and better-looking man than Dempsey. Madden, like Brennan is twenty-six years of age. He was born in County Galway, Ireland, and created something of a sensation in New York when he knocked out Jim Coffey in a fight for the Irish championship.

Madden's parents live in Dublin and he will visit them this year when he crosses the pond with his manager, Lichtenstein, to challenge the winner of the Dempsey - Carpentier fight, providing that battle is pulled off on foreign soil, as it is pretty certain to be.

Madden, although a big fellow, standing five feet, eleven inches, weighing 190 pounds and with a reach of seventy inches, is very light on his feet, boxes as fast as Packey McFarland and is always aggressive in action. That Madden is a great fighter is proven by the fact that he has fought three draws with Brennan and whipped such good men as Jim Savage, Jack Herrick, Tom Cowler, Battling Levinsky, Homer Smith and "Wild" Bert Kenney He has also fought draws with Battling Levinsky, Billy Miske and Tom Gibbons. He has never lost a referee's decision.

And that Brennan, too, is a wonderful fighter is proven by his victory over so good a man as Madden. Madden like Brennan did his bit in the war and no stones can be thrown at him on that score. It was early in 1914 that he joined the British forces and he was on the fighting field until the latter part of 1915, when after receiving injuries in battle, he was invalided home.

Like Tom Sharkey, Madden spent nearly all of his early days at sea. He was a sailor before the mast, sailed under many flags and has visited all parts of the world. Eastern critics who saw him defeat Coffey and others believe him the equal of any man living.

Among those who admired both Madden and Brennan was Charles Cochrane. the English promoter, who came to Chicago for the purpose of signing up Dempsey for a match with Carpentier, to be brought off in London. Cochrane wired Kearns, Dempsey's manager from Chicago, telling him that he was ready to give Dempsey $200.000 to go to England and fight Carpentier. Cochrane told of how he stood ready to deposit $200.000 in a Chicago bank to be paid to Dempsey as soon as he had fulfilled his part of the contract.

Cochrane received no reply to this only bona fide offer made Dempsey to fight Carpentier, but the next day he read in the morning newspaper of how Jim Coffroth, one of the owners of the Tijuana race course near San Diego Cal., had offered $400.000 to Dempsey to fight Carpentier to fight there. . "Mr. Kearns is evidently spoofing and trying to make me raise my offer. I shall pay no more attention to him. On completion of my theatrical business I shall return to England and arrange for Brennen or Madden to come over and meet Carpentier.

"The Frenchman is the drawing card, anyhow, and no matter who he meets the match will draw big money. Now that I come to thing of it, there might be some objection in England to Dempsey anyhow, due to his war record, which I knew nothing of until I reached this country Brennan and Madden have fine war records, so no one can have any objection to their trying for international honors, and now that Dempsey has turned down the liberal offer I have made him I may bring either Brennan or Madden over to try the issue, for, just as I said. Carpentier is himself a great card on the other side and is sure of a capacity house without reference to the man that faces him."


Name: Frank Mantell
Career Record: click
Alias: Frank Otto Mintell
Nationality: US American
Hometown: Pawtucket, Rhode Island, USA
Born: 1886-06-25
Died: 1951-10-09
Age at Death: 65
Height: 5′ 9½″

Nevada State Journal
29 November 1913
Frank Mantel! Lets Out Howl of
Anguish

Reno fight fans who saw the go between Frank Mantell and Roy Taylor at the Belle Isle pavilion Thursday night will be interested in the echo that comes from Sacramento where the mighty Mantel relieved himself of a few opinions. Apparently he was displeased to the utmost in being robbed of an easy win. To be charitable to Mantell it might be said that he has gone just as far back mentally as physically and that the only victories he will win in the future will be those conversational triumphs around the post office stove where the best single-handed talker is always returned a winner.

Mr. Mantell put the newspaper boys of Sacramento up against it when he suggested to a reporter on the Bee that he was robbed out of an easy win by a bum decision. If there’s a fight fan in this city today even though he bet on Mantell, believes that Mantell made any sort of a showing whatever, he has not been discovered. Even Mantell's friends admit that he made a poor showing and never had a chance save one or two rounds.

All admit that the fight was a tame one and that little damage was done on either hand The fact that It was a slow fight and that Mantell did nothing but hang on for the last three rounds makes his statement all the more ridiculous.

This is the second time that he has delivered himself of these few cutting remarks against the Reno fight community but it is a cinch that he will never have the opportunity of a third declaration because no one here wants to see him fight again. He hollered after the first fight and he hollered after the second but in both events he received absolutely a square deal according to the consensus of opinion among those who saw him go.

Accepting all criticism that may be offered as to the class of the go that have been held here, there is no one that can successful get away with an imputation of unfairness in the fights that have been held in the city during the past year Mantell was willing- to come here to fatten his meal ticket but when he weeps copious tears in his home town he will find no one in Reno to extend the hand of sympathy.

This is what Mantell had to say after reaching home: "Frank Mantell arrived this morning from Reno where he fought Roy Taylor yesterday and lost a ten-round decision. Mantell is a pretty sore fighter today, not physically, but mentally. He claims he was robbed of an easy win and that six of the ten rounds belonged to him. He admits Taylor had the shade in two, and says the other two were even. "Reno dispatches say the fight was a tame affair. Both men indulged in much hugging. Taylor had the better of the close fighting in clinches in the last two rounds. In the second and third Mantell showed to good advantage landing some hard blows to Taylor's chin."


It may be said in passing that Kid George, who had the pleasure of beating Mantell and who afterwards fought two draws with Taylor in Reno has never had a word to say about the decisions. In fact George has admitted on many occasions that Taylor was one of the toughest propositions he ever went against Walter Coffey fought Taylor here and said that he believed Taylor was a coming man in the middleweight division.

End


The Fort Wayne Sentinel
28 December 1916
Buck Crouse Carries Fight to Mantell and Wins by a Shade
Hess is the Winner of a Hot Bout With the St Louis Boxer.


Buck Crouse, of Pittsburg, won by a shade from Frank Mantell, a Dayton pug. in a ten round bout at the Majestic last night. Crouse carried the fighting to Mantell at all limes and had to do all the aggressive work. Mantell set himself down on his heels and waited for Buck to come in. The latter worked persistently on the jaw and left ear of the Buckeye with a straight right from the shoulder, but failed to leave any impression on these members.

Crouse jumped from his corner to the center of the ring at the opening gong and from that time to the close never let things lag as far as it was possible for him to keep them going. The veteran Mantell, towards the end of the bout, kept calling for him to "come on" and worked a few other stunts to show how far from all-in he was, but it is not likely that he made himself any more popular with the fans by his comedy.

Mantell fought a defensive game and stood the gaff in fine style, but he didn’t live up to his rep of mixing things up and taking the initiative. There is no doubt he is well trained and an experienced boxer, but most of his evenings work last night consisted of blocking Crouse’s punches. The latter fought with his head in the air and watched every move, but the right from the shoulder was the ony blow which he could register.

Sometimes the Pittsburg boy would get two or three of these in quick succession and would have Mantell snorting like a wild horse, but Frank always came up and never showed the wear.

In the third round Mantell opened up and sent out a line of wallops that gave him the inning and had the fans pulling for him to keep it up. This didn’t last however and he sank back on his heels in the fourth and left the initiative to his younger opponent.

George Biemer was sore about Mantell’s showing, and especially after the line he handed out in the afternoon proceeding the scrap, telling what he thought of scrappers who stall. His manager Was instructed to tell Mantell to open up, if he knew how, and fight. Frank took the next round, then settled back once more to put in the time till the final gong.

He almost got the finisher in the closing frame when Crouse landed a blow to the head which seemed to have some effect on that seemingly solid member of the fighter's make-up, going to the ropes Crouse did not follow this up quickly enough, however, and blew chances of a K. 0. Manager Biemer stated after the show that he has seen plenty of the middles and light-heavies and that it is impossible to set two of them together any more without having one of them spoil the show by stalling. In the future the lighter boys will appear here.

End


When Sandusky, folks gather around the ring for the Mantell-Wiggam scrap December 29, they will have the opportunity of witnessing one of the wisest scrappers in the game in Mantell. The local man has had many ring battles and he is the sort of fellow who profits by experience.

Mantell has fought all of the good boys in his class. He handed the K.O. to Billy Papke and he gained a decision over Battling Levinsky so it can be seen he must know something about the game to be so successful against two formidable foes as those. Mantell expects to give the fans a real treat. He is not the kind to rush from his corner and with wild and careless tactics hope to land a lucky punch. On the other hand Mantell is a clever boxer with enough kick in either mitt to worry the best of them.

He doesn’t waste any time when he gets in the hempen circle and goes right after his man. He is especially good at infighting and Wiggam will have to keep himself well covered in the clinches or he is likely to find himself stretched out on the floor. Mantell. knows all of the tricks. He knows what to look out for and he knows what to use opportunely. He will give the Sandusky fans a good exhibition of a clever boxer.
End

Name: Frank Mantell
Career Record: click
Nationality: Canadian
Hometown: Wichita, Kansas, USA

The Letherbridge Daily Herald
29 September 1916
Weeks Successfully Defends Title
Puts Mantell Out For Count In Third

It took Billy Weeks two rounds, two minutes and fifty seconds to successfully defend his title against Frank Mantell of Butte in the ten round scheduled contest last night at the Majestic theatre. A haymaker right to Mantell’s body ear the close to the third round put the challenger down for the count and Weeks was declared the winner.

Cries of "'foul, foul” greeted the decision. Many in the audience claimed that Weeks' last blow was low. Mantell's seconds putting forward the same opinion. The referee, H. F- Brooks, sporting editor of the Calgary Herald, stoutly maintained that the blow was fair and there were few in the ringside seats to disagree with him.

It was just a case of too much Weeks. The middleweight champion is too experienced a fighter and with the advantage of five pounds in weight, he made life miserable for the contender. At that Mantell shaped up fairly well as a boxer. The opinion of the fans is that Mantell against man of his own weight who is a boxer instead of a tear in fighter, would put up a pretty exhibition. But Weeks went into the fray with the evident intention of doing the job with as little waste of time as possible and he did it.

The blow that put Mantell out wasn't the only one delivered by the champion that put Mantell in difficulties. Twice in the second round Mantell went to the floor. The first time Weeks put him through the ropes with a body blow and Mantell stayed down while the referee counted eight on him when the bell saved the day. The last time, in the third round, Mantell went down. He was inevident agony and though he couldn’t raise himself in time he made every effort to do so.
End

Re: Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 01 Sep 2009, 06:33
by Robinson
Thank you !

Homicide Henry, where ever the lad is , would love this one on one of his
bare knuckle heroes.

Re: Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 01 Sep 2009, 11:17
by granberry
Thanks you Robert.

Lots of valuable stuff.

How sad that so much of basic history is lost.

The quote from one paper on Battling Levinsky is laughable:

"Levinsky is unable to assimilate much punishment."

It took a Jack Dempsey to KO Levinsky

Dempsey told me about that fight when I talked with him at his restaurant on Broadway.

Re: Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 01 Sep 2009, 11:58
by robert.snell1
granberry wrote:Thanks you Robert.

Lots of valuable stuff.

How sad that so much of basic history is lost.

The quote from one paper on Battling Levinsky is laughable:

"Levinsky is unable to assimilate much punishment."

It took a Jack Dempsey to KO Levinsky

Dempsey told me about that fight when I talked with him at his restaurant on Broadway.
Thanks, what you say sums up pretty much how i feel about the status of boxing history, as far as the internet goes. Mind you the quality - a bit of a miss usage of the word - of current day printed material is so poor and sparce in content its hardly worth reading. the Uk press is of the view that the public want to hear of complete and utter trivia about the wife of a football player or the "Mind Games" the managers are playing - Christ it was a revelation to me they had a mind to play with given that they all seem to only use the word "Massive" when talking about an upcoming game.

The comment on Levinsky is as you say laughable and akin to saying Sullivan was a gentle and sober person who liked knitting. Mind you having said all that it is a fair bit of fun reading the old articles when they say such things. I often wish i could go back and listen to the comments when they finished doing the write ups in the press room. As McEnroe said "You Can't Be Serious" comes to mind

Re: Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 11 Sep 2009, 04:45
by robert.snell1
this is the link to the pdf file which you can view or download



http://www.fileden.com/getfile.php?file ... %20no5.pdf

Re: Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 11 Sep 2009, 10:30
by granberry
Keep them coming, Robert.

Re: Newsletter Vol 5 No 5

Posted: 11 Sep 2009, 16:11
by BoxBuzz
Good read. Even if granberry agrees.