BoxRec

I recall somebody posting a photo on here about a year ago.

Well here is a video clip, courtesy of Youtube, you can see Sonny and George moving around at 2.10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgaxHBge ... re=related

Thank you. All too brief.

authenticates the picture....you can see that this is taking place in the same gym as the pic. Same walls, etc.

i wonder how they would of got on in a real fight they were both pro at the same time all be it an old liston

Foreman was a novice pro fighter at the time.

Liston taught him the short right hand to the body.

You have to keep your hands up when fighting a puncher like Liston and he would step in with a killing right hand to the side at times while his opponent was trying to defend against punches to the head.

He used that to break Patterson in half.

Corbett used that against Fitzsimmons.

Foreman learned it well and used it to stop Joe King Roman in one round.

A few fights later Foreman forget he ever knew how to throw that punch.

Adamj1987 wrote:i wonder how they would of got on in a real fight they were both pro at the same time all be it an old liston

My money would be on Liston. It was really late in Liston's career & very early in Foreman's (as pros). Dusk & dawn. I could be convinced otherwise, perhaps, but my money would be on dusk.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote:i wonder how they would of got on in a real fight they were both pro at the same time all be it an old liston

My money would be on Liston. It was really late in Liston's career & very early in Foreman's (as pros). Dusk & dawn. I could be convinced otherwise, perhaps, but my money would be on dusk.

Yeah Liston was still a very capable fighter with a great Jab and straight right up to and including the Martin fight. What let Sonny down was his lifestyle and conditioning.

If he had kep in any kind of shape (his idea of training from 67 onwards was to lay off the smack and whiskey and do a bit of bag and road work) i think he would have regained the title against Frazier in 1970 and had a rubber match with Ali in 70/71.

Truly great fighter Liston. Up there with the best Heavy's of all.

IMO, Frazier beats Liston anytime around 1970. Prime-for-prime, it's a very different story, but Liston, in my view, didn't have the ferocity remaining to finish Frazier if he hurt him. He was starting to lose his punch, too.

Yank Durham wouldn't let Frtazier get in the ring with Liston.

He was not the only one. No rated fighter would fight Liston after the two Ali fakes. They all studiously avoided him.

Gran

Do you think Liston was being avoided ?
Was discredited because of Ali 2 ?
or his management was happy to match him with
middle tier fighters, and when he did face a credible
guy late in the game (Martin) he lost..

What are your thoughts...

gran I almost forgot to tell you the Ali fights weren't fakes! How bout them apples? Bet you're pretty surprised to finally get the news on that. However Liston did lose his will to take a beating in the second one if you want to call that "fixed".

Leotis Martin was a completely legit fight. Leotis had the keys to victory because he probably logged as much time with Sonny as a sparring partner as anyone. And he was bit more of a student than Sonny ever imagined. Of course he wouldn't of stood a chance against him prime vs prime.

gran, you have an opinion on Mustafa vs Saad II? Why did that get shelved at countdown? Who would have won?
I'm hoping I can get your take on that someday.

Robinson wrote:Gran

Do you think Liston was being avoided ?
Was discredited because of Ali 2 ?
or his management was happy to match him with
middle tier fighters, and when he did face a credible
guy late in the game (Martin) he lost..

What are your thoughts...

Whether the Ali fights were fakes or not Liston was persona non grata after that and no one of note wanted to fight him. In '68 Liston was pretty much reduced to an imposing jabber who occasionally would throw single power shots. Enough to beat the journey men he mostly fought but not nearly enough to have any kind of chance against a prime Frazier, I even doubt he would have bested the green as grass Foreman.

McCannW14 wrote:I recall somebody posting a photo on here about a year ago.

Well here is a video clip, courtesy of Youtube, you can see Sonny and George moving around at 2.10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgaxHBge ... re=related

- Must have the eye of an eagle to spot that all too brief clip of the two sparring out of all the Liston video out there.

Wonder if the resident geniuses (genii) who proclaimed the still photo a fake and the circumstances impossible in real life will hold up their hands and acknowledge their many failures of imagination on this forum.

As far as Liston's relevance as a post championship fighter, probably the Wepner fight can be seen in context with Foreman's early whackout of Wepner. Sonny's competitive late round TKO instead of throwing that fight if the stories are to be believed, would indicate he still retained some pride as a fighter after his ring disgraces had banished him to the backwaters of boxing.

BRR, I was one of the ones who vouched for it's authenticity as I was aware of the encounter. However I was not surprised that some questioned it. It is a very clumsy looking moment, in the look of aloofness of each fighter mostly. But something that would be very much in character with these two guys. They really looked like they were completely unaware of the existence of the other. Sort of like one of us using the "ignore" feature.

They looked like two fighters shadow boxing in a gym....
its a partial fragment of what is possibly 1000 of hrs that
each man would have spent in a gym.

I have seen best mates who train together look much the
same while training metres apart.

Here is another quote from George Foreman regarding Liston's training habits in 1969.

"The last thing Sonny would do was train"
He'd want to party all the time and sometimes he would do so much he did'nt even know his name"
(source SONNY BOY by Rob Steen(1993)