BoxRec

Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Max Baer

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis

Mike Tyson

Evander Holyfield

Wlad Klitschko

Jack Johnson

Larry Holmes

Prime for prime over 15 rounds.

Joe Louis drops Ali early, loses most of the middle rounds, but controls most of the final few rounds to win a SD over Ali.

Jack Dempsey comes out quick, stuns Ali in the first and fights even with Muhammed throughout the first half of the fight. Ali assumes control after the mid way point and is able to fend off a late rally to win a close UD.

Gene Tunney does well, but is just not able to get close enough on a consistent basis to effectively carry the fight to a moving Ali. Ali by UD.

Max Baer fights aggressively but is easily countered by a retreating Ali. After a few rounds of abuse, Baer is cut above the left eye in the 4th and ref stops the fight.

Rocky Marciano is ineffective for the first 4 rounds but slowly closes the gap in the 5th after taking a pretty good beating. Despite swelling and cuts around both eyes Rocky presses forward and gains control of the fight midway. Unfortunately, the damage to his face forces the ringside doc to stop it after 12 rounds. All 3 judges have it Ali by a point at the time of the stoppage.

While Ali has fought guys taller than him before, he’s never faced a guy like Lennox Lewis. Ali gets stunned several times in the early rounds and falls behind before stepping up the pace to pull out a close UD.

Mike Tyson starts quick but never seems able to land consistently on the moving Ali. While the first 5 rounds are pretty much even, Tyson appears to be getting frustrated and his face is puffing up. Ali sweeps the final 7 rounds of the fight and Tyson has to hold on in last round enroute to losing a wide UD to Ali.

Evander Holyfield has absolutely no solution for the movement and speed of Ali, but is never hurt en route to losing a UD.

Wlad Klitschko fights cautiously throughout and takes quite a few counter rights before getting dropped at the end of the 5th. After a few more KDs the fight is stopped in the 6th.

Jack Johnson proves a difficult target, but he also unable to launch any appreciable offense while losing a UD to Ali.

Larry Holmes is able to apply effective pressure on Ali throughout and takes a close UD.

ThatOne wrote:.

- Hmmmm, 3 posts and we get an alltime Ali question, eh?

Maybe you can define "prime" Ali, because either "prime" Ali was never tested at the level of the list or "prime" Ali got the jinn whooped out of him by prime Frazier and Norton. Arguably KOed by Cooper too.

I'd pick Tyson to deliver an alltime beatdown on the way to a KO. The rest have good or fare chances save Baer who was very talented and formidable but pretty disinterested and couldn't be bothered in training and in the ring usually.

Ali is the greatest, didn't get the memo?

ThatOne wrote:Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Max Baer

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis

Mike Tyson

Evander Holyfield

Wlad Klitschko

Jack Johnson

Larry Holmes

Louis TKO14 Ali

Ali UD15 Dempsey

Ali UD15 Tunney

Ali TKO11 Baer

Ali TKO12 Marciano

Ali UD15 Lewis

Ali TKO12 Tyson

Ali UD15 Holyfield

Ali UD15 Klitschko

Ali UD15 Johnson

Ali MD15 Holmes

Beats them all besides Louis and Johnson, and I'm 50/50 on Holmes.

ThatOne wrote:Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Max Baer

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis

Mike Tyson

Evander Holyfield

Wlad Klitschko

Jack Johnson

Larry Holmes

W15 over Johnson
W15 over Dempsey
W15 over Tunney
TKO11 over Baer
W15 over Louis
W15 over Marciano
W15 over Holmes
TKO12 over Tyson
W15 over Holyfield
W15 over Lewis
TKO14 over Klitschko

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

ThatOne wrote:.

- Hmmmm, 3 posts and we get an alltime Ali question, eh?

Maybe you can define "prime" Ali, because either "prime" Ali was never tested at the level of the list or "prime" Ali got the jinn whooped out of him by prime Frazier and Norton. Arguably KOed by Cooper too.

I'd pick Tyson to deliver an alltime beatdown on the way to a KO. The rest have good or fare chances save Baer who was very talented and formidable but pretty disinterested and couldn't be bothered in training and in the ring usually.

Ali KO'd by Cooper? Tyson delivers this genuine ring general an all time beatdown? BRR You're so full of gas you're ready to explode!

Now take that youthful enthusiasm and get over to the Tony Galento thread and use your "past era fighter bias" where it can actually set some folks straight.

Hey even a stopped clock can be completely correct once or maybe twice a day. You are just what that thread needs.

BoxBuzz wrote:Ali KO'd by Cooper? Tyson delivers this genuine ring general an all time beatdown?

- Now buzzy, many have put for the "argument" for Cooper including Dundee himself.

The point being that all through his career Ali was at times handled, hurt, and even lost. The first 3 times he faces a style similar to Tyson, he struggles physically to keep Chuvalo off of him, but wins, and is delivered a formidable beatdown by Frazier and Norton.

Prime Tyson is something that has never been seen in ring history, and I doubt will ever be seen for a long time if ever.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Ali KO'd by Cooper? Tyson delivers this genuine ring general an all time beatdown?

- Now buzzy, many have put for the "argument" for Cooper including Dundee himself.

The point being that all through his career Ali was at times handled, hurt, and even lost. The first 3 times he faces a style similar to Tyson, he struggles physically to keep Chuvalo off of him, but wins, and is delivered a formidable beatdown by Frazier and Norton.

Prime Tyson is something that has never been seen in ring history, and I doubt will ever be seen for a long time if ever.

I think I read about this bloke somewhere. Was his name Michael Gerard Tyson; the fella who lost his heavyweight title in Japan to a club fighter who was a 42-1 underdog?

I didn't know going 4-2 against Frazier and Norton were beatdowns. It's also noteworthy that every time Ali faced Norton and Frazier he was the older fighter and more shopworn. Hell, Norton couldn't even put away the geriatric Ali in Yankee Stadium.

I will anticipate your response. You will say they were gift decisions. I don't know how you will say "Manilla" was a gift decision but I am sure you will try. And even if you make that argument Ali still had to make those four fights "close enough" to steal thus precluding the possibility of a "beatdown".

I also have to say that Tyson like Marciano waded through some pretty shallow ponds as they appeared to be the "Godzillas" of their HW eras. That shallowness gave us all the impression that they were very tall and imposing creatures indeed. Ali did a pretty good job with the Godzillas of his time Mr Foreman and Mr Liston And I think an older Foreman vs Tyson post prison would have perhaps even favored the old Godzilla. Granted neither at their prime, but Foreman certainly being further away from his.

Anyway Ali did pretty well with fire breathing beasts of that nature I don't see why it would be daft to add Tyson to that list on a hypothetical basis. Or is it sheer madness to consider this as a possibility?

Ali's chin, his rather confident and always healthy psyche and his ring generalship, overall speed, and footwork would be rather inspiring commodities to invest in for the sports betting entrepreneur looking to take advantage of the overly enthusiastic Tyson investors.

Out of all these fighters in a head to head battle I would say he beats all except, Lewis and Holmes.

Jack Johnson I believe would give him a difficult time but I believe he wins it.

BoxBuzz wrote:I also have to say that Tyson like Marciano waded through some pretty shallow ponds as they appeared to be the "Godzillas" of their HW eras. That shallowness gave us all the impression that they were very tall and imposing creatures indeed. Ali did a pretty good job with the Godzillas of his time Mr Foreman and Mr Liston And I think an older Foreman vs Tyson post prison would have perhaps even favored the old Godzilla. Granted neither at their prime, but Foreman certainly being further away from his.

Anyway Ali did pretty well with fire breathing beasts of that nature I don't see why it would be daft to add Tyson to that list on a hypothetical basis. Or is it sheer madness to consider this as a possibility?

Ali's chin, his rather confident and always healthy psyche and his ring generalship, overall speed, and footwork would be rather inspiring commodities to invest in for the sports betting entrepreneur looking to take advantage of the overly enthusiastic Tyson investors.

If those eras were shallow ponds, does this era qualify as a 'kiddie pool'?

I'd describe it more like a "light sprinkle". But BRR will likely tell us it is the Marianas Trench....not sure I spelled that right...but you know what I mean.

Funny how some people pick Ali to win every fight, despite the fact that he lost fights to Frazier and Norton when in or near his prime. I prefer to think of how the fighters would perform in trilogies against each other, where I think Ali would go 2-1 against a few of that list. If it's just one prime-prime fight then I'll say:

Ali TKO8 Louis - Ali goes down once, epic fight that Ali eventually wins by stoppage when Joe goes down for the second time.

Ali UD15 Dempsey - Dempsey gives Ali some difficulty in the middle rounds, but is inevitably clearly outpointed and outboxed.

Ali UD15 Tunney - The bigger, stronger Ali is too much for Tunney, who manages to steal a few rounds and frustrate Ali at times.

Ali TKO7 Baer - Baer stuns Ali once and from there it is all Ali, the accumulation of punches finally getting to Baer.

Ali TKO13 Marciano - Competitive fight, but Marciano takes a lot of leather and is finally stopped on cuts.

Ali UD15 Lewis - Lewis tries and fails to win a battle of the jabs. He takes a few rounds and hurts Ali at times, but the result is a clear decision win to Ali.

Ali KO8 Tyson - Ali weathers the storm early, using his footspeed and counter punching to eventually break Tyson's spirit. A very swollen Tyson stays on the floor after an 8th round KD.

Ali UD15 Holyfield - A rather one-sided fight, Holy wins 2 or 3 rounds where Ali takes a breather, but is beaten by speed and volume of punches.

Ali TKO11 Klitschko - Ali does not have the power to "do a Sanders" but beats Wlad by speed and volume on punches. Think rumble in the jungle only a more timid and weaker chinned Foreman. Wlad never goes down, but does not question the refs decision to stop the beating.

Ali UD15 Johnson - Tricky fight for Ali, who is made to look silly at times. Ali takes a close decision in a very competitive fight.

Holmes SD15 Ali - Holmes wins the battle of the jabs although Ali lands more punches. A disputed decision although most see it for Holmes who seemed to control the fight.

CRAP, that's not much better than the clean sheets I was earlier thinking of. Oh well.

ThatOne wrote: I didn't know going 4-2 against Frazier and Norton were beatdowns. It's also noteworthy that every time Ali faced Norton and Frazier he was the older fighter and more shopworn. Hell, Norton couldn't even put away the geriatric Ali in Yankee Stadium.

- No, you don't know, but I do and you should go find the cartoon board to create your little "How would Bambi fare against these cartoon characters" thread.

It's noteworthy that you consider the 29yr old Ali "the older fighter and more shopworn" when his most of first reign consists of mostly cleaning out the geriatric heavyweight wing of "the older fighters and more shopworn" in their throes as fighters and ranked contenders. Moore, Cooper, Liston, Patterson, London, Williams, and Folley.

Frazier was 27 years old and a lifelong heavy, not a LH gold medalist moving up, 26-0 and already having cleaned out the remnants of the geriatric ward as a prospect with wins over Chuvalo, Jones, and Machen. Frazier had been busy vanquishing all the young lions who were relevant of the era that Ali hadn't fought, Bonavena, Quarry, Ramos, Mathis, Ellis, and Foster.

As to Norton, I didn't know being one year younger than Ali after being a HS football/track star and a Marine veteran in the Vietnam war/Agent Orange era with late pro start in boxing never having beat a ranked contender in against a ranked former 31 yr old champ who was to remain in the rankings another 5 yrs excuses Ali as "the older fighter and more shopworn."

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

ThatOne wrote: I didn't know going 4-2 against Frazier and Norton were beatdowns. It's also noteworthy that every time Ali faced Norton and Frazier he was the older fighter and more shopworn. Hell, Norton couldn't even put away the geriatric Ali in Yankee Stadium.

- No, you don't know, but I do and you should go find the cartoon board to create your little "How would Bambi fare against these cartoon characters" thread.

It's noteworthy that you consider the 29yr old Ali "the older fighter and more shopworn" when his most of first reign consists of mostly cleaning out the geriatric heavyweight wing of "the older fighters and more shopworn" in their throes as fighters and ranked contenders. Moore, Cooper, Liston, Patterson, London, Williams, and Folley.

Frazier was 27 years old and a lifelong heavy, not a LH gold medalist moving up, 26-0 and already having cleaned out the remnants of the geriatric ward as a prospect with wins over Chuvalo, Jones, and Machen. Frazier had been busy vanquishing all the young lions who were relevant of the era that Ali hadn't fought, Bonavena, Quarry, Ramos, Mathis, Ellis, and Foster.

As to Norton, I didn't know being one year younger than Ali after being a HS football/track star and a Marine veteran in the Vietnam war/Agent Orange era with late pro start in boxing never having beat a ranked contender in against a ranked former 31 yr old champ who was to remain in the rankings another 5 yrs excuses Ali as "the older fighter and more shopworn."

People seem to like those threads. You're a hateful little fella, aren't you.

ThatOne wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

ThatOne wrote: I didn't know going 4-2 against Frazier and Norton were beatdowns. It's also noteworthy that every time Ali faced Norton and Frazier he was the older fighter and more shopworn. Hell, Norton couldn't even put away the geriatric Ali in Yankee Stadium.

- No, you don't know, but I do and you should go find the cartoon board to create your little "How would Bambi fare against these cartoon characters" thread.

It's noteworthy that you consider the 29yr old Ali "the older fighter and more shopworn" when his most of first reign consists of mostly cleaning out the geriatric heavyweight wing of "the older fighters and more shopworn" in their throes as fighters and ranked contenders. Moore, Cooper, Liston, Patterson, London, Williams, and Folley.

Frazier was 27 years old and a lifelong heavy, not a LH gold medalist moving up, 26-0 and already having cleaned out the remnants of the geriatric ward as a prospect with wins over Chuvalo, Jones, and Machen. Frazier had been busy vanquishing all the young lions who were relevant of the era that Ali hadn't fought, Bonavena, Quarry, Ramos, Mathis, Ellis, and Foster.

As to Norton, I didn't know being one year younger than Ali after being a HS football/track star and a Marine veteran in the Vietnam war/Agent Orange era with late pro start in boxing never having beat a ranked contender in against a ranked former 31 yr old champ who was to remain in the rankings another 5 yrs excuses Ali as "the older fighter and more shopworn."

People seem to like those threads. You're a hateful little fella, aren't you.

You have to understand that he had a very bad childhood. The threads are fine.

ThatOne wrote: People seem to like those threads. You're a hateful little fella, aren't you.

- People also like to smoke cigs, eat fast food, use the toilet without washing, and sit on their big bums all day staring at the boob tube.

I'm just the big, bad, "older fighter and more shopworn" giving you the proper schooling you never recieved.

How Would Leon Fare (Prime) Against Snow White and The Seven Sins of Sinbad?

Yep, Frazier delievered Ali a remarkable lesson. If he had not defeated Ali, Ali might not have had the burning desire to make the rest of his career as solid as he did. They needed each other. And I imagine in their heart of hearts they both were taught some humility by the other. There is no "inferior" fighter between those two. Just one who endured a bit longer. Two greats who helped define a great era. They both gave each other something to prove....and they both proved a lot.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

ThatOne wrote: People seem to like those threads. You're a hateful little fella, aren't you.

- People also like to smoke cigs, eat fast food, use the toilet without washing, and sit on their big bums all day staring at the boob tube.

I'm just the big, bad, "older fighter and more shopworn" giving you the proper schooling you never recieved.

How Would Leon Fare (Prime) Against Snow White and The Seven Sins of Sinbad?

You definitely have a lot of pent up rage or hostility.

Perhaps counseling would help from a minister. If you are the secular type I would recommend psychotherapy.


PEACE

THATONE

Just ignore the resident troll, you will miss nothing of substance.

I'd take Ali over everyone but Lewis & Holmes.

ThatOne wrote:Perhaps counseling would help from a minister. If you are the secular type I would recommend psychotherapy.
PEACE

THATONE

- I was told that pushing around soft lads for light exercise would be beneficial.

So here's I be, but alas, no boxing content from you, just silly saad questions.....Why is there air........how many bubbles in a bubble bath.......why is chicken, chicken, and not ham?

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

ThatOne wrote:Perhaps counseling would help from a minister. If you are the secular type I would recommend psychotherapy.
PEACE

THATONE

- I was told that pushing around soft lads for light exercise would be beneficial.

So here's I be, but alas, no boxing content from you, just silly saad questions.....Why is there air........how many bubbles in a bubble bath.......why is chicken, chicken, and not ham?

You obviously take this forum way too seriously or not seriously enough.

But alas there is help.

PEACE


ThatOne