BoxRec

Who is it ? And, would any of these guys be candidates. Barry McGuigan (that hurt) Brian Mitchell, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Victor Galindez.

SORRY, didn';t mean Galindez. Just got distracted.

Julio Cesar Chavez

dempseyfire wrote:Julio Cesar Chavez

guys that have any kind of national following are usually overrated because they are so popular. mcguigan has to be up there. we could name any number of brit fighters here.

"most" all the top men of the last 20-30 years... not them all mind you but most of them!

Ricardo Lopez

Cosign on Chavez & Lopez.

He was one of my favorites growing up, but Wilfredo gomez deserves a mention.

I hardly ever hear people give Ricardo Lopez credit I never thought him to be overrated.

He was a brilliant, brilliant fighter. Perhaps the best I've seen in my lifetime.

Lopez is an interesting study. He was great and most everyone agrees he was great. It was genuine, non controversial greatness. So "overated" could only apply in so much as everybody "got it".

But he seems like an odd name to place here since his greatness is questioned by almost no one.

Over rated is a term I think of when there is some sort of question or controversy. Or when a sizable minority of folks are questioning the pedigree.

Naz come to mind...a guy I get behind, but many feel he was just a bag of wind. I don't completely disagree since he never lived up to his potential, but I would argue he had everything but commitment, and commitment is nothing to sneeze at so I 'get it" when he is referred to as overrated.

Monzon and Hagler .......sort of fall into the Ali/Marciano category I suppose. They almost have to be over rated because neither can be credibly dubbed "under rated" under any imagined circumstance. Doesn't mean they aren't great.

The most legendary...Pep,Robinson, Armstrong Duran....sort of fall into a Dempsey catagory...great AND over rated.

Naz gets the number one slot for me in this category. Haye today fits that bill, maybe a few years from now I will take that back if he "commits". Valero may end up qualifying....yet to be seen I suppose. I think Tito could end up on a few folks list. Jermaine Taylor may belong on the list up until recently since no one probably over rates him today. Could Abraham qualify on this day? We'll see after he faces Kessler I guess.

Tapia? Ayala? Carter? The names that get dragged up and defended from time to time and then shot back down by the detractors. Marlin Starling, Davey Moore.....once upon a time. But time tends to sort these things out.
Primo Carnera in the latest of outrageous historical rewrites seems to be enjoying a new undeserved fan base. But he is a heavy so never mind.

Oops....almost forgot a big fish.......Aaron Pryor......My guess? I've stirred up some grumpys with this one.

A cruiser come to mind DeLeon was his name I think. Maybe Michelzewski...or however you spell his name.

The thing with Lopez is his lack of top opposition, the best fighter he ever fought wasn't great and arguably beat him. Many guys look all world against lesser opponents and I think Finito gets defacto all time status without having faced the type of fighters that others in that category proved their worth against time and again. I also think a lot of hardcore fans give him love to show they care about a Straweight.

I'm not saying he didn't have the skills, but he doesn't have the resume to be considered a top 100 type fighter and I think many would put him there. that constitutes overrated for me. I agree with you on Pryor. Another Hawk, Julian Jackson has developed more over time because of his highlight reel knock outs.

hatton to this day I can't find what made people like him. his biggest career win is a sham
Chavez and Vargas
I also found gatti overrAted

Shocked people are mentioning Chavez.

One of the fighters of the 80s. And got that distinction by fighting everyone.

When you look at what followed with the sport's top boxers in the 90s...

Criminal.

Ezzard wrote:Shocked people are mentioning Chavez.

One of the fighters of the 80s. And got that distinction by fighting everyone.

When you look at what followed with the sport's top boxers in the 90s...

Criminal.

Yeah I have to agree, he's the real deal even when the Taylor thing is factored. Some may want to penalize him for his Don King connnection, but IMHO he was the genuine article. And even with Taylor it wasn't him that was the problem....that's squarely on the ref, he did what he had to do and succeeded.

I'm not as sure about Tito as you can see, and I may be guilty of penalzing him for the aforementioned connection. But I'm trying to stay focused on purely the ring acadmemics or lack thereof.

Julio Cesar Chavez is one of boxings alltime greats. I don't see him as overrated at all.

And now to say something that may sound a little cold at the moment. Arturo Gatti and Diego Corrales were two of the most overrated fighters of recent times.

Lot of fans these days see speed as the start and finish of sports. Maybe that's why Julio is getting picked out. Seriously, other than Azumah Nelson I can't think of anyone else who he could have fought.

Palomino

Jack Root

Floyd Mayweather, with cherry picking opponents, oh no lets stir up some controversy! Sorry Floyd lovers. If Chavez is overrated, what is Floyd?

Seamus wrote:Julio Cesar Chavez is one of boxings alltime greats. I don't see him as overrated at all.

And now to say something that may sound a little cold at the moment. Arturo Gatti and Diego Corrales were two of the most overrated fighters of recent times.

Agree completely. If the question was "Who gets over-rated by their countrymen" then I'm sure Chavez'd be up for inclusion, because he was never God. But how you could call the bloke anything less than great?

Gatti & Corrales on the other hand, were fan-favourites who suffered crushing losses -- utter thrashings no less -- against less-popular fighters (in their respective primes as well, no waiting until either were thirty-odd). Yet both are talked about in hushed, reverent tones.

Not sure McGuigan is overrated so much as overhyped. Kind of like Ray Mancini. I remember the McGuigan hype in the 1980s. He was like Mancini, a guy with a terrific punch and a good story to tell. Also, like Mancini, he seemed like a good guy. But I don't know that anybody rated him one of the all-time greats or anything

calzaghe! he deserves mention here. joe going into the hall is comical. he was wasting his prime fighting in ice skating rinks in cardiff vs opponents who even europeans thought were terrible.

giacomino wrote:Not sure McGuigan is overrated so much as overhyped. Kind of like Ray Mancini. I remember the McGuigan hype in the 1980s. He was like Mancini, a guy with a terrific punch and a good story to tell. Also, like Mancini, he seemed like a good guy. But I don't know that anybody rated him one of the all-time greats or anything

- Good comparison even though their styles were different.

Mancini was putting together a Rocky type of career before being derailed by the Duk Kim tragedy as McG was putting together what was shaping up as perhaps a Ken Buchanan type of career where it seems they had enough going to make people believe greatly in them.

I never got what was the proper explanation for McG's sudden decline, almost Cooney like.

Datsue wrote:

Seamus wrote:Julio Cesar Chavez is one of boxings alltime greats. I don't see him as overrated at all.

And now to say something that may sound a little cold at the moment. Arturo Gatti and Diego Corrales were two of the most overrated fighters of recent times.

Agree completely. If the question was "Who gets over-rated by their countrymen" then I'm sure Chavez'd be up for inclusion, because he was never God. But how you could call the bloke anything less than great?

Gatti & Corrales on the other hand, were fan-favourites who suffered crushing losses -- utter thrashings no less -- against less-popular fighters (in their respective primes as well, no waiting until either were thirty-odd). Yet both are talked about in hushed, reverent tones.

'real' greats don't get their faces used as speedbags by the likes of Ivan Robinson and Angel manfredy

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

giacomino wrote:Not sure McGuigan is overrated so much as overhyped. Kind of like Ray Mancini. I remember the McGuigan hype in the 1980s. He was like Mancini, a guy with a terrific punch and a good story to tell. Also, like Mancini, he seemed like a good guy. But I don't know that anybody rated him one of the all-time greats or anything

- Good comparison even though their styles were different.

Mancini was putting together a Rocky type of career before being derailed by the Duk Kim tragedy as McG was putting together what was shaping up as perhaps a Ken Buchanan type of career where it seems they had enough going to make people believe greatly in them.

I never got what was the proper explanation for McG's sudden decline, almost Cooney like.

McGuigan was going strong. He beat LaPorte. He then beat the great Pedroza (who was over the brow of the hill but still a special fighter). He beat Taylor who was ranked in KO magazine's p4p top 10 when they fought... Then it all started to unravel. He beat the game substitute Cabrera but failed to impress.

He then turned down a fight with Wildredo Gomez at 130 - at that time a fight Barry would surely have won.
Took the fight with tainted prospect, Cruz. Barry was a busy, super fit fighter, with loads of energy and non-stop punching. Many British fighters are like this. They tend to have short peaks because many over train.

Anyway, the story was he got fried in the desert by a capable Cruz in the fight of the year. McGuigan did brilliantly to come back in that one. He’d turned the fight around only to get caught in the last round and lose by a point. The momentum swings in that one remind me of Leonard-Hearns I.

After that he was out of the ring for 2 years. Barry, who had always played on having this great relationship with his manager, then fell out with his manager. British media turned against him.

He made a decent comeback but then got stopped on a cut against McDonell. A real shame (nothing against Jim, but thought Barry looked to be edging it).

Barry really should have kept his title in Ireland and had the challengers come to him.

He was a top fighter though. Those 2 years out of the ring post Cruz really hurt him. McGuigan was the kind of guy who’d go down fighting no matter who he fought.