BoxRec

In your opinions who were the best 20-30 fighters middleweight and under in the past 20 years, in order?

Hagler Hearns Leonard and Duran should be in everyones list.

tyson50wins44ko wrote:Hagler Hearns Leonard and Duran should be in everyones list.

So should Chavez, Monzon, and Pryor.

tyson50wins44ko wrote:Hagler Hearns Leonard and Duran should be in everyones list.

I would STRONGLY recommend you take Leonard out of that list. You know what could happen with this thread.

Lopman wrote:

tyson50wins44ko wrote:Hagler Hearns Leonard and Duran should be in everyones list.

I would STRONGLY recommend you take Leonard out of that list. You know what could happen with this thread.

A sad fact of life on the BOTP forums.


BTW agreed tantum.

My brain is not working well enough to do that list in order but I nominate:

Ricardo Lopez
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Samson Dutchboy Gym
Jun-Koo Chang
Kaosai Galaxy
Azumah Nelson
Marvin Hagler

tomato can wrote:My brain is not working well enough to do that list in order but I nominate:

Ricardo Lopez
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Samson Dutchboy Gym
Jun-Koo Chang
Kaosai Galaxy
Azumah Nelson
Marvin Hagler

What was the deal with Dutch Boy? He beat some good fighters, although it looks like he fought alot of them by accident. Why didn't he ever fight for a real title. Thai's usually aren't very tolerant of posers.

Hey tomato can.

You seem to be an expert on this. Well I am buyin fights of Thai fighters exclusively.

Who, in order, were the best boxing legends from Thailand of the past 20 years(and if you have time their most impressive KOs against quality opposition)?

I haven't made up my list yet(it's a bit confusing), but I think Lopez was the best.

Here are my top 20 Thai fighters. I am too lazy to add their top victories but you can look these guys up and decide for yourself.

1. Khaosai Galaxy
2. Samson Dutchboy Gym
3. Chartchai Chionoi
4. Saensak Muangsurin
5. Muangchai Kittikasem
6. Sot Chitalada
7. Veeraphol Sahaprom
8. Pone Kingpetch
9. Venice Borkorsor
10 Berkrerk Chartvanchai
11 Pongsaktek Wonjongkam
12 Saman Sorjaturong
13 Ratanpol Sor Vorapin
14 Netrnoi Vorasingh
15 Chartchai Sasakul
16 Daorung Chuvatana
17 Pichit Sitbanprachan
18 Thanomchit Sukhothai
19 Payao Poontarat
20 Kaokor Galaxy

terap wrote:Yes, Azumah Nelson is a good choice.

And, based on his first fight with Nelson, Jeff Fenech belongs.

Fenech was smaller than Nelson, yet he took the fight directly to Nelson, as if he (Fenech) was the bigger of the two---an amazing thing to do against a fighter as good as Nelson.

And Fenech did it successfully, putting up an absolutely great performance.

He fought like a wolverine that night.

And then Fenech was robbed royally after his great effort by the ridiculous draw decision.

Fenech is another good choice. One that bollocks will be happy with, I might add.

McCallum may be able to make the list without expanding it. Level of competition wont be a problem.

bollocks wrote:
A few more to consider:

Antonio Esparagosa
Hector Camacho (idiot but excellent fighter at his best)
Barry McGuigan (short prime)

agreed, had barry had a more sustained prime i would definatly had him there.

Withoutout a doubt Marvin Hagler was the greatest of recent past. Hagler made more fighters retire from boxing or leave the middleweight devision entirely. The only reason his loss to Leonard came (in my opinion) was because the powers (money makers) didn't want Carlos Monzone's record broken for consecutive successful title defenses.

Take look back into the fourties. There you will find the greatest middleweight of all time.

Has anyone heard of Billy Soose Middleweight Champ in 1941? he beat Tony Zale and Ken Overlin within 28 days in 1940. Billy was inducted into the World Boxing Hall Of Fame in 1994. I'm looking for support to have him inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

You are correct. He also went 10 rounds with Charlie Burley. Although
he lost a decision, not many lasted the distance with Burley. Soose's
trainer, Ray Arcel, told Soose that if he had 2 good hands, he would have beaten Burley. Soose damaged his right hand early in his career in a bout with, I believe, with Johnny Duca in Los Angeles. Soose's left became and was quoted as being the most educated left hand in the buisness.

Julio Cesar Chavez
Ricardo lopez
Chiquita Gonazlaz
Micheal Carbajal
Saman Sorjaturong
Bernard Hopkins
Evander Holyfield
Edwin Rosario
Hector Camacho(pre Rosario fight)

doesn't ANYBODY think delahoya belongs in this list?

..and Camacho, as tony says, before the rosario fight. even after, when he decided he didn't like the "take" part of "give and take" of boxing, i loved to see him use his skills and smarts and beating some good fighters and staying out of harms way while doing it.


Saul Mamby doesn't belong with the top action fighters and his name isn't well known even to followers....but he was a defensive marvel even as he got into "old age" for a boxer. Put the crowd to sleep more often than he did his opponents, but he was slick, hard to beat and impossible to look good against. one of those guys who could go into the eye of the hurricane and avoid getting hurt...and i admit I have a weakness for fighters with this kind of skill....whno reming us boxing is supposed to be the art of self defense.

...buddy mcgirt! how could we miss buddy mcgirt????!!!! for a stretch there, right before his arm injury he was as good as a fighter could be...good puncher and master boxer...the way he could defend and counter with the same move reminded me of harold johnson. also like johnson, highly underrated.....his not appearing on this thread proving my point.

got a personal message calling me to task for listing saul mamby among the great ones here, along with the losses on his record. i sent a correct back, adding 5 losses the sender missed. i did NOT list mamby as one of the great ones....i did say he was a defensive marvel and i loved watching him frustrate better fighters with his "i'm five inches away from you and you can't hit me skill." ( I even added to my reply a win that should have been a loss....against Norman Goins.)

Jaclem.....As you know I was a big admirer of Buddy McGirt yet left him off my short list...further proving your point.

I suppose I should probably mention Roy Jones Jr.

Ricardo Lopez was THE BEST, beating De La Hoya, Chavez(yes I believe he was better than Chavez) and Hopkins and Jones etc. etc.

So slick defensively and yet such a great hitter with every punch. I've hardly ever seen such perfection, especially in the 90s. And when he got a guy's head spinning he was so relaxed it was amazing.

Lopman wrote:In your opinions who were the best 20-30 fighters middleweight and under in the past 20 years, in order?

Not in order but on the basis of weights post 1984:

Flyweight:

Jung-Koo Chang (yes, better than Ricardo Lopez; in his prime dominated guys of the caliber that Lopez NEVER EVEN FACED, such as Zapata, Torres & Chitalada--this opinion, by the way, is shared by everyone I've talked to who have seen Chang extensively)

Bantamweight:

no one outstanding but Jeff Chandler?

Feather:

Azumah Nelson

Lightweight:

Alexis Arguello

Welterweight:

Donald Curry

Middlweight:

Marvin Hagler

Lopman wrote:I suppose I should probably mention Roy Jones Jr.

I dont think he really did enough at middle to make the list IMO

10 years on how has it changed?

Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquiao
Ricardo Lopez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Kostya Tszyu
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Bernard Hopkins
Oscar De La Hoya
Felix Trinidad