BoxRec

I'm probably the minority that thinks Hagler stops him late in a brutal fashion. Hagler was too much, almost inhuman at times. Took flush shots from Hearns which would bring in question can Abraham do it. Both are listed close in size even though Hagler looked smaller as a middleweight, maybe an inch shorter. Hagler had a sight reach advantage.

When the super six is all over then u can judge this fight. It's 2 soon right now.

Hagler would outwork him and find holes in is tight defence when AA wasn't working Hagler would be and beating him

Hagler late KO/UD

Hagler by late stoppage.

gambler49 wrote:It's 2 soon right now.

No it's not. Hagler by KO.

AA is a good but not great fighter. Hagler was way too versatile to lose to a strong guy with a basic high shield defense.

dempseyfire wrote:AA is a good but not great fighter. Hagler was way too versatile to lose to a strong guy with a basic high shield defense.

- Hagler dropped a couple of decisions to Watts/Monroe and drew with Seales/Vito, so it ain't like he was without flaw.

As typical on these forums, it don't take much intellect to pick the legacy fighter, however, AA has proven to be a great fighter in his era and may be on his way to an elite career. Moreover, he fights bigger, stronger fighters than Marv did, Miranda being a small heavy in Marv's day for example.

Mugabi was a guy with pretty basic skills, and troubled Marv greatly as did Hamsho in the first bout. What these guys had in common with AA is that they were prime aged very strong men with good chins and I dare say that AA is the strongest and the hardest puncher Hagler would've faced with proven late round KO power.

Abraham came within a few skips of setting the skiprope speed record just a couple of years ago, so anyone also dismissing his footwork doesn't understand the economy of his style. To beat AA, you have to come to him, and thus far everyone has failed. When he decides to punch out, I don't recall anyone able to trade with him or keep him off, so dismissing his footwork is like dismissing his power because the tap ain't always on.

I suspect Marv could've moved up to supermid had it been there for him and done very well and I don't blame him for staying out of the very strong LH division of the era, but that's exactly where AA would be fighting in his era at this stage, fighting 6-2 guys with ring weights of 175-180 lbs.

AA didn't look very graceful disposing of Taylor who is the best boxer type he's faced, but he did it with impressive strength overall and the final KO sequence stands up to any in history. Dirrell next in the cue, so we'll see how he does with a pure runner/grabber, but that has no bearing on how he'd fare against Marv.

I would favor Marv slightly as long as I knew he understood, he ain't The Man in this dustup. Gonna have to break out his clever game plan and show the best discipline of his career. Legacy didn't prevent the best fighters in history from being beat by considerably lesser fighters than what AA represents, and most certainly AA could split a series with him.

I even managed to address Dempster without making sport of him, so I surely must be awash in the milk of human kindness this beautiful Sunday AM!

Nice to have you properly medicated and producing a product of reason today. I'm not speaking so much of content (which I do find reasonable,) as much as this rather surprising almost civil style today, which has me suspecting you are of two minds, perhaps in a medical sort of way.

I think Abraham would be a good challenge for Hagler and like you I suspect at times that there is an evolution going on in boxing so for me it's not sacrilegious to suggest that a newer spawn may have advantages over the historical crew. Though at the end of the day I would be too shy to bet on AA.

For reasons of my own I would be more fascinated with a 3 way round robin between Carlos Monzon, Benny Briscoe and this newcomer. All three appear to be cut from a cloth that is willing to pay a great price for success and would make for some pretty brutal viewing. (Not that a Hagler affair would be a pitty patter's event by any means.)

If Arthur can't beat Kessler, then I would need to retract these expressed fascinations. For now the Miranda fight continues to be very telling. AA is quite possibly a throwback in terms of tough mentality that I truly admire in this sport.

I think it more to the point that Abraham would never be able to make 160 on a same day weigh-in, so BRR's points are moot.

If AA somehow did manage to get down to 160 for a five-hours-before-the-fight weigh-in, he'd probably keel over after about two rounds.

This is what distorts "Past vs present" hypothetical match-ups -- not only does the newer guy have a massive advantage 'cos he will by definition be bigger than the older guy, it can cut the other way: make it a level playing field so AA has to compete with Hagler (same-day weigh-in), & he'd probably die of dehydration.

Datsue wrote:I think it more to the point that Abraham would never be able to make 160 on a same day weigh-in, so BRR's points are moot.

If AA somehow did manage to get down to 160 for a five-hours-before-the-fight weigh-in, he'd probably keel over after about two rounds.

This is what distorts "Past vs present" hypothetical match-ups -- not only does the newer guy have a massive advantage 'cos he will by definition be bigger than the older guy, it can cut the other way: make it a level playing field so AA has to compete with Hagler (same-day weigh-in), & he'd probably die of dehydration.

I like this point and look forward to others chiming in. That is a dynamic that has drastically changed.

I think it should be noted that Hagler lived a Monk-style life year round to be able to always clearly make weight. Give Marvin a day to pump up and he might be even more dangerous. It's really impossible to know and it's all conjecture.

It is conjecture, as to what it all would mean in terms of performance for sure, and it's a dynamic that has changed profoundly. Or is it that it is just given a lot more lip service these days?

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:AA is a good but not great fighter. Hagler was way too versatile to lose to a strong guy with a basic high shield defense.

- Hagler dropped a couple of decisions to Watts/Monroe and drew with Seales/Vito, so it ain't like he was without flaw.

As typical on these forums, it don't take much intellect to pick the legacy fighter, however, AA has proven to be a great fighter in his era and may be on his way to an elite career. Moreover, he fights bigger, stronger fighters than Marv did, Miranda being a small heavy in Marv's day for example.

Mugabi was a guy with pretty basic skills, and troubled Marv greatly as did Hamsho in the first bout. What these guys had in common with AA is that they were prime aged very strong men with good chins and I dare say that AA is the strongest and the hardest puncher Hagler would've faced with proven late round KO power.

Abraham came within a few skips of setting the skiprope speed record just a couple of years ago, so anyone also dismissing his footwork doesn't understand the economy of his style. To beat AA, you have to come to him, and thus far everyone has failed. When he decides to punch out, I don't recall anyone able to trade with him or keep him off, so dismissing his footwork is like dismissing his power because the tap ain't always on.

I suspect Marv could've moved up to supermid had it been there for him and done very well and I don't blame him for staying out of the very strong LH division of the era, but that's exactly where AA would be fighting in his era at this stage, fighting 6-2 guys with ring weights of 175-180 lbs.

AA didn't look very graceful disposing of Taylor who is the best boxer type he's faced, but he did it with impressive strength overall and the final KO sequence stands up to any in history. Dirrell next in the cue, so we'll see how he does with a pure runner/grabber, but that has no bearing on how he'd fare against Marv.

I would favor Marv slightly as long as I knew he understood, he ain't The Man in this dustup. Gonna have to break out his clever game plan and show the best discipline of his career. Legacy didn't prevent the best fighters in history from being beat by considerably lesser fighters than what AA represents, and most certainly AA could split a series with him.

I even managed to address Dempster without making sport of him, so I surely must be awash in the milk of human kindness this beautiful Sunday AM!

I almost fell for it................................ Then I seen the author.

dempseyfire wrote:I think it should be noted that Hagler lived a Monk-style life year round to be able to always clearly make weight. Give Marvin a day to pump up and he might be even more dangerous. It's really impossible to know and it's all conjecture.

- No different than Abraham or any number of lifelong greats such as Super Joe and Mr. Pops most recently.

Moving up didn't make them more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap over tall buildings. That only happens when the fighters are unnaturally starved in order to make weight as what has been the case for Manny through the first half of his career.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:AA is a good but not great fighter. Hagler was way too versatile to lose to a strong guy with a basic high shield defense.

- Hagler dropped a couple of decisions to Watts/Monroe and drew with Seales/Vito, so it ain't like he was without flaw.

As typical on these forums, it don't take much intellect to pick the legacy fighter, however, AA has proven to be a great fighter in his era and may be on his way to an elite career. Moreover, he fights bigger, stronger fighters than Marv did, Miranda being a small heavy in Marv's day for example.

Mugabi was a guy with pretty basic skills, and troubled Marv greatly as did Hamsho in the first bout. What these guys had in common with AA is that they were prime aged very strong men with good chins and I dare say that AA is the strongest and the hardest puncher Hagler would've faced with proven late round KO power.

Abraham came within a few skips of setting the skiprope speed record just a couple of years ago, so anyone also dismissing his footwork doesn't understand the economy of his style. To beat AA, you have to come to him, and thus far everyone has failed. When he decides to punch out, I don't recall anyone able to trade with him or keep him off, so dismissing his footwork is like dismissing his power because the tap ain't always on.

I suspect Marv could've moved up to supermid had it been there for him and done very well and I don't blame him for staying out of the very strong LH division of the era, but that's exactly where AA would be fighting in his era at this stage, fighting 6-2 guys with ring weights of 175-180 lbs.

AA didn't look very graceful disposing of Taylor who is the best boxer type he's faced, but he did it with impressive strength overall and the final KO sequence stands up to any in history. Dirrell next in the cue, so we'll see how he does with a pure runner/grabber, but that has no bearing on how he'd fare against Marv.

I would favor Marv slightly as long as I knew he understood, he ain't The Man in this dustup. Gonna have to break out his clever game plan and show the best discipline of his career. Legacy didn't prevent the best fighters in history from being beat by considerably lesser fighters than what AA represents, and most certainly AA could split a series with him.

I even managed to address Dempster without making sport of him, so I surely must be awash in the milk of human kindness this beautiful Sunday AM!

I don't know. I think Hearns was a more dangerous fighter than Abraham. Hearns hits hard but he also threw lots of punches, something that AA doesn't do.

IKSRTFO wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:AA is a good but not great fighter. Hagler was way too versatile to lose to a strong guy with a basic high shield defense.

- Hagler dropped a couple of decisions to Watts/Monroe and drew with Seales/Vito, so it ain't like he was without flaw.

As typical on these forums, it don't take much intellect to pick the legacy fighter, however, AA has proven to be a great fighter in his era and may be on his way to an elite career. Moreover, he fights bigger, stronger fighters than Marv did, Miranda being a small heavy in Marv's day for example.

Mugabi was a guy with pretty basic skills, and troubled Marv greatly as did Hamsho in the first bout. What these guys had in common with AA is that they were prime aged very strong men with good chins and I dare say that AA is the strongest and the hardest puncher Hagler would've faced with proven late round KO power.

Abraham came within a few skips of setting the skiprope speed record just a couple of years ago, so anyone also dismissing his footwork doesn't understand the economy of his style. To beat AA, you have to come to him, and thus far everyone has failed. When he decides to punch out, I don't recall anyone able to trade with him or keep him off, so dismissing his footwork is like dismissing his power because the tap ain't always on.

I suspect Marv could've moved up to supermid had it been there for him and done very well and I don't blame him for staying out of the very strong LH division of the era, but that's exactly where AA would be fighting in his era at this stage, fighting 6-2 guys with ring weights of 175-180 lbs.

AA didn't look very graceful disposing of Taylor who is the best boxer type he's faced, but he did it with impressive strength overall and the final KO sequence stands up to any in history. Dirrell next in the cue, so we'll see how he does with a pure runner/grabber, but that has no bearing on how he'd fare against Marv.

I would favor Marv slightly as long as I knew he understood, he ain't The Man in this dustup. Gonna have to break out his clever game plan and show the best discipline of his career. Legacy didn't prevent the best fighters in history from being beat by considerably lesser fighters than what AA represents, and most certainly AA could split a series with him.

I even managed to address Dempster without making sport of him, so I surely must be awash in the milk of human kindness this beautiful Sunday AM!

I don't know. I think Hearns was a more dangerous fighter than Abraham. Hearns hits hard but he also threw lots of punches, something that AA doesn't do.

- Of course Hearns is a danger and the superior boxer at range. He was somewhat uneven at 160 and above and lacked the punch and strength to keep Hagler at range.

Figure AA is stronger and punches harder in a bad style matchup. Then we get into Hearn's woeful stamina and AA's notorious late round KO power.

The guy to legitimately beat AA will be someone who can outbox him and take a few shots on the way, in short a Hagler if he can stand up to the size, power, and strength advantage. Be a good fight that we might have a better feel for at then end of super 6.

Hearns' stamina was better than Abraham, who was gassed badly by the 10th vs Taylor, in what was not a very fast-paced fight.

If Hearns can win a shootout with Roldan (who I think could've beat AA in a great fight) he can win one with Abraham.

dempseyfire wrote:Hearns' stamina was better than Abraham, who was gassed badly by the 10th vs Taylor, in what was not a very fast-paced fight.

If Hearns can win a shootout with Roldan (who I think could've beat AA in a great fight) he can win one with Abraham.

- Hearns stamina went south most times he faced a big puncher, ie his legs would run out of the building leaving him lurching around the ring on vapours.

AA has a 16% late round KO %, 5 of the 31 fights he's been in being decided in the 10-12 rds, or 1 of every 6 fights. As typical of you, the basic, simple facts of boxing pass you by when they make the rounds because you're too busy gassing your shorts.

The only case where Hagler is able to beat Abraham is the one I layed out based on styles and attributes. Hearns ain't never gonna beat Abraham any more than Holmes is ever gonna come back and legitimately beat the first ever prime contender, champ, or great of his career.

Too late for you dempster, you and your crusty hero play action figures that you drag out of your sand box for display here.

I'm sorry, I can't see Abraham going 15 rounds with anyone who've done it.

I agree with Broughton. Hagler wins but it would be closer than expected.

Have to go with the proven one Hagler here, Abraham hasn't fought anyone nearly as good as Marvin, but it will certainly be interesting to see how his career goes from here, he's got a lot going for him in in terms of power and heart.

Arthur Abraham?

Hagler in one

would be the battle of the thick skull (its slightly thicker than average) and the titanium jaw (litterally he has a plate on his jaw bone

gambler49 wrote:When the super six is all over then u can judge this fight. It's 2 soon right now.

We surely know the answer to this now.

Yes, I feel vindicated.