BoxRec

The criterion I use is ring record, quality of opposition, and how I think they would fare in eras in which they did not fight.
1.) Muhammad Ali- Beat seven heavyweight champions, nine Hall of Famers, and is the only man to knock out George Foreman.Although a technically flawed fighter he had the fastest legs and hands of any heavyweight. His ability to take a punch was unparalleled.
2.) Joe Louis- Brilliant fighter and fundamentally sound.
3.) Jack Johnson- Defensively flawless fighter
4.) George Foreman- What can I say? He took apart two of the best seventies heavyweights; Norton and Frazier. He also won the title at 45.
5.) Larry Holmes- Great left jab, technically sound. Too bad his peak was in a less than stellar era
6.) Joe Frazier- IMHO he would have beat any hw in history on March 8, 1971 except George Foreman who was just all wrong for him for all the obvious reasons.
7.) Jack Dempsey- I liked him because he used to own a bar in NY and came into my uncle's.
8.) Rocky Marciano- Controversial pick at 7. He beat everybody he fought. I will leave it at that.
9.) Sonny Liston- Most intimdating fighter of his era. Had an eighty four inch reach
10.) Evander Holyfileld- Just a warrior.

Honorable mention-Mike Tyson, Floyd Patterson,Lennox Lewis

ThatOne wrote: 3.) Jack Johnson- Defensively flawless fighter

- Only Leon of all the champs was knocked out more, so perhaps he was better defensively by your standards.

Still, gotta give JJ credit for perfecting the defense of the duck and hide from your proper hiding with wicked sideslipping defenses against Langford, Jeannette, Wills, McVey, Carpentier, Smith, Dillon, McCarty, Morris, Fulton, ect, ect.

Haven't made a top 10 list in so long. I tried to find it in my old posts.

Grimm wrote:Haven't made a top 10 list in so long. I tried to find it in my old posts.

I'm just killing time.

ThatOne wrote:The criterion I use is ring record, quality of opposition, and how I think they would fare in eras in which they did not fight.
1.) Muhammad Ali- Beat seven heavyweight champions, nine Hall of Famers, and is the only man to knock out George Foreman.Although a technically flawed fighter he had the fastest legs and hands of any heavyweight. His ability to take a punch was unparalleled.
2.) Joe Louis- Brilliant fighter and fundamentally sound.
3.) Jack Johnson- Defensively flawless fighter
4.) George Foreman- What can I say? He took apart two of the best seventies heavyweights; Norton and Frazier. He also won the title at 45.
5.) Larry Holmes- Great left jab, technically sound. Too bad his peak was in a less than stellar era
6.) Joe Frazier- IMHO he would have beat any hw in history on March 8, 1971 except George Foreman who was just all wrong for him for all the obvious reasons.
7.) Jack Dempsey- I liked him because he used to own a bar in NY and came into my uncle's.
8.) Rocky Marciano- Controversial pick at 7. He beat everybody he fought. I will leave it at that.
9.) Sonny Liston- Most intimdating fighter of his era. Had an eighty four inch reach
10.) Evander Holyfileld- Just a warrior.

Honorable mention-Mike Tyson, Floyd Patterson,Lennox Lewis

Good list! I'd have the same fighters in mine albeit in slightly different order and I'd put Jefferies at #10 with Evander at #11.

7.) Jack Dempsey- I liked him because he used to own a bar in NY and came into my uncle's.





i didnt know jack was like that

funso banjo baby wrote:7.) Jack Dempsey- I liked him because he used to own a bar in NY and came into my uncle's.







i didnt know jack was like that

But it has got you all excited right? Now would be a good time to PM granberry.

ThatOne wrote:The criterion I use is ring record, quality of opposition, and how I think they would fare in eras in which they did not fight.
1.) Muhammad Ali- Beat seven heavyweight champions, nine Hall of Famers, and is the only man to knock out George Foreman.Although a technically flawed fighter he had the fastest legs and hands of any heavyweight. His ability to take a punch was unparalleled.
2.) Joe Louis- Brilliant fighter and fundamentally sound.
3.) Jack Johnson- Defensively flawless fighter
4.) George Foreman- What can I say? He took apart two of the best seventies heavyweights; Norton and Frazier. He also won the title at 45.
5.) Larry Holmes- Great left jab, technically sound. Too bad his peak was in a less than stellar era
6.) Joe Frazier- IMHO he would have beat any hw in history on March 8, 1971 except George Foreman who was just all wrong for him for all the obvious reasons.
7.) Jack Dempsey- I liked him because he used to own a bar in NY and came into my uncle's.
8.) Rocky Marciano- Controversial pick at 7. He beat everybody he fought. I will leave it at that.
9.) Sonny Liston- Most intimdating fighter of his era. Had an eighty four inch reach
10.) Evander Holyfileld- Just a warrior.

Honorable mention-Mike Tyson, Floyd Patterson,Lennox Lewis

pretty good list, can't really argue with your rankings

I like the list. I'd offer Honourable mentions to Jeffries, Langford, Schmeling and Tunney too.

I think everyone has all the right guys in the mix. For me, the elite 15 are, in chronological order: Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and Lennox Lewis. As for the exact order, we all have our opinions but reasonable minds are going to differ. I severly doubt that any one of them could defeat all of the rest.

Question: You wouldn't happen to answer to the name Eugenia in your everyday life would you?

How someone can put Holyfield over Lewis is mystifying and defies logic since they met and Lewis beat him convincingly twice. It's only more evidence of the irrational anti-Lewis bias out there.

Lewis was the only guy going after Holyfield because he was dangerous, not choosing him because he thought he was washed up like Tyson and Bowe did. After a tough fight against Mavrovic he goes after the best man willing to fight him. Whereas his contemporaries chose easier opposition after unexpectedly tough fights. Oh but you excuse them for that! People say Lewis fought a shell of a fighter in Tyson but they neglect to mention Lewis was after him for years! He would have fought him 10 years earlier if Tyson was willing.

It goes without saying Lewis is the better boxer. You don't get bonus points for toughness, for flash, for box office. In the end it's a sport to decide who is the best man, not a personality contest. Use your head and not your heart and you will see that you wouldn't put money on half of those men to beat Lennox Lewis. Fortunate for you their careers are all over!

"How someone can put Holyfield over Lewis is mystifying & defies logic..."

Utter nonsense. I've seen this I don't know how many times with British fight fans. They are obscene, at times.

It's a perfectly reasonable debate as to who the greater Heavyweight was...unless you tear up at the sight of the Union Jack

Mr E wrote:I think everyone has all the right guys in the mix. For me, the elite 15 are, in chronological order: Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and Lennox Lewis. As for the exact order, we all have our opinions but reasonable minds are going to differ. I severly doubt that any one of them could defeat all of the rest.

You should be careful. Using the words 'elite 15' and 'Riddick Bowe' within the same sentence might cause your computer to crash.

wouter wrote:

Mr E wrote:I think everyone has all the right guys in the mix. For me, the elite 15 are, in chronological order: Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and Lennox Lewis. As for the exact order, we all have our opinions but reasonable minds are going to differ. I severly doubt that any one of them could defeat all of the rest.

You should be careful. Using the words 'elite 15' and 'Riddick Bowe' within the same sentence might cause your computer to crash.

I enjoy Mr E's posts but Bowe did stick out a little for me. Lots of talent. i can see why he might be mentioned but I'd pick langford ahead of him.

I do agree that these guys are closer than our standard top 2 might suggest.

Mr E wrote:I think everyone has all the right guys in the mix. For me, the elite 15 are, in chronological order: Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and Lennox Lewis. As for the exact order, we all have our opinions but reasonable minds are going to differ. I severly doubt that any one of them could defeat all of the rest.

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46304

According to the votes of 17 BoxRec member, the elite 15 are the same as yours, only Bowe is replaced by Ezzard Charles. Most clear was that there is a largely agreed to top 12: Ali, Louis, Holmes, Johnson, Foreman, Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier, Lewis, Liston, Holyfield and Tyson.

What was the poimts system Jezzamundo?

wouter wrote:

Mr E wrote:I think everyone has all the right guys in the mix. For me, the elite 15 are, in chronological order: Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and Lennox Lewis. As for the exact order, we all have our opinions but reasonable minds are going to differ. I severly doubt that any one of them could defeat all of the rest.

You should be careful. Using the words 'elite 15' and 'Riddick Bowe' within the same sentence might cause your computer to crash.

Heh. I know, I know. I'm used to the ridicule on that one. I am in a minority (of one?) but I think that Bowe beat Holyfield 2 out of 3, and would have beaten him 3 out of 3 if he'd taken the rematch as seriously as he should have, because he was the better fighter. IMO, wherever one rates Holy, one should rate Bowe higher.

I agree with Eddie Futch that Bowe's potential was so great that, had he possessed Holy's personal fortitude and determination (or Ali's, etc.), he could have become the greatest of all.

Again, I know. Very few people share my opinion here.

I don't think Bowe's talent was so grand as to have the potential to be the greatest of them all --- not with that defense D

That said, I'm usually in the minority in thinking that not only does he beat a greener Lewis around 1993, but that, prime-to-prime, Bowe bests Lewis, as well.

I also thought Bowe marginally out-pointed Holyfield in their second fight, but that was a debatable result, & some share my take.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I don't think Bowe's talent was so grand as to have the potential to be the greatest of them all --- not with that defense D

That said, I'm usually in the minority in thinking that not only does he beat a greener Lewis around 1993, but that, prime-to-prime, Bowe bests Lewis, as well.

I also thought Bowe marginally out-pointed Holyfield in their second fight, but that was a debatable result, & some share my take.

With his range and reflexes, there was no excuse for Bowe to have been as easy to hit as he was. Too bad.

It was the least of his short-comings, but he was a tremendous fighter --- if only on two or three nights.

He's a HOF fighter on ability, but his career isn't of the proper calibre for the Hall, IMO.

wouter wrote:

Mr E wrote:I think everyone has all the right guys in the mix. For me, the elite 15 are, in chronological order: Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and Lennox Lewis. As for the exact order, we all have our opinions but reasonable minds are going to differ. I severly doubt that any one of them could defeat all of the rest.

You should be careful. Using the words 'elite 15' and 'Riddick Bowe' within the same sentence might cause your computer to crash.

Just wondering.

Who would you replace him with?

"Noob Saibot."

Wow, thanks for the stroll down memory lane, Grimm. Takes me back to when I must've been about ten or twelve, playing Mortal Kombat II

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Noob Saibot."

Wow, thanks for the stroll down memory lane, Grimm. Takes me back to when I must've been about ten or twelve, playing Mortal Kombat II

They were labeling me a noob in the boxrecsim forum so I figured I would be the coolest noob I know of.

Waiting for Jimeon to appear & declare, "Toasty!" on the ole Sega Mega-Drive D

What was the poimts system Jezzamundo?

No points, just a preferential voting system. If 9 out of 17 people placed fighter #1 higher than fighter #2, then they would be ranked accordingly. There was only one circularity in the results, between three fighters who I separated using their mean ranking based on votes.

In regards to the previous Holyfield-Bowe comments. I believe that both on their best night, Bowe clearly beats Holyfield, although I rank Holyfield higher due to the fact that he also had a longer reign as champion, clearly beat an admittedly past-prime, but still formidable Tyson, and went on to give Lewis a close fight in their second encounter. Bowe certainly had the potential to be a top 10 of all-time, but he simply did not beat enough top level heavyweights, was too erratic, and pretty much washed up by his early 30s. Had he beaten Tyson or Lewis, I could see him in the top 15.