BoxRec

Who wins this match in their primes? Sully from the Flood fight in 1881, Corbett circa their actual fight. We know what happened in their actual fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yBnAfN2-I). The fight would change yet would the outcome change?

Just a few small points, LOL.

What rules? Queenberry? Bare knuckle?

To a finish?

Queensberry rules, fight to a finish.

Would like to see it.

The whiskey soaked version that had nearly died twice in the previous few years was able to survive quite a few rounds against the prime Corbett, so I suspect that a prime Sullivan, who many eye witnesses claim was a very quick fighter, could have eventually landed a few solid shots on the agile Corbett. Sullivan by KO.

Peter Jackson's style would have better suited Sullivan than Corbett's elusiveness allowed. However, Sullivan, at the Flood fight, was being cited by some newspapers of the time as being the 'world champion', though he had yet to face off with Paddy Ryan---I think Sullivan may have won over Corbett, but 'Gentleman' Jim was miles ahead of Kilrain, Mitchell, Slavin, McCaffery, and Greenfield [Slavin, Greenfield, McCaffery lasted the 4-6 round distance with Sullivan in 4 & 6 round bouts]---although it is true that those men would throw themselves to the floor, to escape Sullivan's rushes (there was still the LPR mentality in those early MQ fights).

The overweight, alcohaulic managed to drop Corbett in the 18th, and lasted until the 21st. In his prime, Sullivan wins all the way, but it is no easy night.

HomicideHenry wrote:The overweight, alcohaulic managed to drop Corbett in the 18th, and lasted until the 21st. In his prime, Sullivan wins all the way, but it is no easy night.

Agreed, and I think Sullivan would have gotten quite angry at Corbett's elusiveness, even when JLS wasn't addled by alcohol.

BTW, did you or anyone else ever discover proof of this 18th round KD? I would love to believe that it was true, but I haven't seen any sources that mention it.

Also, have you yet, or are you still planning to step into a pro ring? As I've mentioned, I'm in the Akron area and will travel to go shout encouragement.

I would have to lean toward Sullivan, if this is a finish-fight. Who ever proved they could hang with him indefinitely?

Charlie Mitchell

I think Sullivan has more experience, saavy and over all animal in
him to beat Corbett.

Corbett may look clever at times, and do his best to stave of the
Strongboy, but if I was going to bet on this one, I would throw a
few of the Queens pounds down on John L by KO>

The Great John L wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:The overweight, alcohaulic managed to drop Corbett in the 18th, and lasted until the 21st. In his prime, Sullivan wins all the way, but it is no easy night.

Agreed, and I think Sullivan would have gotten quite angry at Corbett's elusiveness, even when JLS wasn't addled by alcohol.

BTW, did you or anyone else ever discover proof of this 18th round KD? I would love to believe that it was true, but I haven't seen any sources that mention it.

Also, have you yet, or are you still planning to step into a pro ring? As I've mentioned, I'm in the Akron area and will travel to go shout encouragement.

I have copies of fight reports from the San Francisco Call and the New York Sun, and neither mention any knockdown of Corbett in the 18th round.

In a 15, 20 or even 25 round fight I like Corbett even with a prime Sullivan. In a fight to the finish I think Sullivan would eventually get to his man.

ben geoghegan wrote:Charlie Mitchell

That was an LPR fight. When he fought a younger Sullivan with MoQ rules a few years earlier he didn't fair nearly as well.

The Great John L wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:The overweight, alcohaulic managed to drop Corbett in the 18th, and lasted until the 21st. In his prime, Sullivan wins all the way, but it is no easy night.

Agreed, and I think Sullivan would have gotten quite angry at Corbett's elusiveness, even when JLS wasn't addled by alcohol.

BTW, did you or anyone else ever discover proof of this 18th round KD? I would love to believe that it was true, but I haven't seen any sources that mention it.

Also, have you yet, or are you still planning to step into a pro ring? As I've mentioned, I'm in the Akron area and will travel to go shout encouragement.

I cant recall, but I know I have read about Corbett being dropped in the 18th. By that time, though, Sullivan couldnt even block blows and had a broken nose and cut up all over. It was the proverbial 'lucky punch'.

I'm still trying to get into a pro ring, I have had major dental work done here late (all my top teeth were removed) so am still healing up from that, and with being sick with a cold on top of it all, it makes my whole mouth pretty miserable. But once I am healed completely, I will jump into this full force. Atm, I'm working on a bookers position for a pro wrestling organization run by my cousins husband James Radford (he has been using the Ugandan Giant Jr gimmick since 1994).

HomicideHenry wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:The overweight, alcohaulic managed to drop Corbett in the 18th, and lasted until the 21st. In his prime, Sullivan wins all the way, but it is no easy night.

Agreed, and I think Sullivan would have gotten quite angry at Corbett's elusiveness, even when JLS wasn't addled by alcohol.

BTW, did you or anyone else ever discover proof of this 18th round KD? I would love to believe that it was true, but I haven't seen any sources that mention it.

Also, have you yet, or are you still planning to step into a pro ring? As I've mentioned, I'm in the Akron area and will travel to go shout encouragement.

I cant recall, but I know I have read about Corbett being dropped in the 18th. By that time, though, Sullivan couldnt even block blows and had a broken nose and cut up all over. It was the proverbial 'lucky punch'.

I'm still trying to get into a pro ring, I have had major dental work done here late (all my top teeth were removed) so am still healing up from that, and with being sick with a cold on top of it all, it makes my whole mouth pretty miserable. But once I am healed completely, I will jump into this full force. Atm, I'm working on a bookers position for a pro wrestling organization run by my cousins husband James Radford (he has been using the Ugandan Giant Jr gimmick since 1994).

You may be confused with the first Jeffries fight. Jeff dropped Corbett in the 19th round of their first fight, before famously coming from behind to stop Corbett in the 23rd. (Corbett, one will recall, was ahead on points.)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yBnAfN2-I).
The fight would change yet would the outcome change?

Mitchell proved Sullivan was a Queensberry boxer not an LPR prizefighter. He laid the blueprint for beating them man also. Which was to rile him, run and box his ears all night.

Sullivan didn't put Corbett down in any round although he was game til the end. That's the most interesting aspect to me: Sullivan never quit under hopeless odds. When he went down in defeat it was because he was out. That fight told more about Sullivan than most of his important wins. That's the one trait you can't train into a man. And no one ever truly trained Sullivan. He was his own man.

ben geoghegan wrote:Mitchell proved Sullivan was a Queensberry boxer not an LPR prizefighter. He laid the blueprint for beating them man also. Which was to rile him, run and box his ears all night.

I don't think it proved any such thing. Sullivan beat Ryan for the US LPR championship and was generally regarded as the best in the world under LPR rules as well. The Sullivan who was held to a draw by the "mobile" Mitchell was hardly near his peak, and had been declining for many years due to alcoholism, and a severe case of inflated ego.

Also, the success or failure of LPR tactics has very little bearing on what might work in a gloved matchup as the earlier fight with Mitchell proved.

Before John L. Sullivan fought Jim Corbett, he have very little experience in "long distance" bouts conducted under the Marquis of Queensberry Rules. As a result, how could anyone pick Sullivan over Corbett in such bouts when the latter gained such experience when facing Joe Choynski and Peter Jackson?

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:Before John L. Sullivan fought Jim Corbett, he have very little experience in "long distance" bouts conducted under the Marquis of Queensberry Rules. As a result, how could anyone pick Sullivan over Corbett in such bouts when the latter gained such experience when facing Joe Choynski and Peter Jackson?

- Chuck Johnston

Good point Chuck. I think the younger, less alcohol addled Sullivan would have stopped him inside of 7 or 8 rounds.

The Great John L wrote:

ben geoghegan wrote:Mitchell proved Sullivan was a Queensberry boxer not an LPR prizefighter. He laid the blueprint for beating them man also. Which was to rile him, run and box his ears all night.

I don't think it proved any such thing. Sullivan beat Ryan for the US LPR championship and was generally regarded as the best in the world under LPR rules as well. The Sullivan who was held to a draw by the "mobile" Mitchell was hardly near his peak, and had been declining for many years due to alcoholism, and a severe case of inflated ego.

Also, the success or failure of LPR tactics has very little bearing on what might work in a gloved matchup as the earlier fight with Mitchell proved.

The Mitchell fight is meaningless. They fought outdoors in a rainstorm in what quickly became a mud pit, and Sully suffered an arm injury in the fourth or fifth round that hampered him severely.

BTW, Mike Donovan, the great old middleweight champion, boxed Sullivan twice (in 1880 and 1881), and trained Corbett for the Sullivan fight in 1892. He knew both men quite well, having been in the ring with both in their primes. He was quoted as saying that a prime Sullivan would have defeated Corbett. In fact, Donovan rated Sullivan as the greatest heavyweight of all time. Donovan died in 1918.

raylawpc wrote:BTW, Mike Donovan, the great old middleweight champion, boxed Sullivan twice (in 1880 and 1881), and trained Corbett for the Sullivan fight in 1892. He knew both men quite well, having been in the ring with both in their primes. He was quoted as saying that a prime Sullivan would have defeated Corbett. In fact, Donovan rated Sullivan as the greatest heavyweight of all time. Donovan died in 1918.

Yes, the Professor was a very wise man.

Chuck1052 wrote:Before John L. Sullivan fought Jim Corbett, he have very little experience in "long distance" bouts conducted under the Marquis of Queensberry Rules. As a result, how could anyone pick Sullivan over Corbett in such bouts when the latter gained such experience when facing Joe Choynski and Peter Jackson?

- Chuck Johnston

That may be true Chuck, but in Sullivan's earliest exhibitions and LPR and MQ bouts he was knocking out guys who been dominate in the sport for nearly 20 years. Imagine today if you can a guy kayoing a top ten contender in his pro debut, and two-three fights later be champion of the world. Thats more or less what Sullivan did. It was unbelievable what he accomplished in such a short amount of time.

As far as SUllivan's long distance bouts are concerned, many of his opponents whether the fight was held under LPR or MQ were so scared of SUllivan that they threw themselves down repeatedly to save energy and last the distance---its apparent, that had these men not done so, Sullivan would have kayoed them as well.

Corbett's elusiveness would have benefited him, yes, but against the young Sullivan, I dont think it would have made much a difference---Sullivan was, when in condition, one of the best conditioned fighters of his time, he had tremendous power, speed, and his boxing skills are under-rated, he wasnt above chasing a man down to get the job done.

You're using a lot of creative license there. Sullivan didn't fight any dominant fighters and he only had three bare knuckle fights in his entire career. The sport was very unorganized in the transition from LPR to Queensberry. There wasn't ten top boxers at the time.

ben geoghegan wrote:You're using a lot of creative license there. Sullivan didn't fight any dominant fighters and he only had three bare knuckle fights in his entire career. The sport was very unorganized in the transition from LPR to Queensberry. There wasn't ten top boxers at the time.

Creative license my ass. The most well known names in boxing like Mike Donavon and Coburn and Ryan, Sullivan cleaned house with them in exhibitions and actual prize fights. Save old guys like Tom Allen and Jem Mace, who else was there really in the known world at that time who could have beaten Sullivan? Either there were no takers or everyone was old.