BoxRec

Just been reading from Kevin Mitchell that Freddie Roach is complaining about the quality of Pacquaio's traning, sparring and his lack of focus. This is the latest in a long, long line of rumours about Pacquaio's focus for this fight.

I think this is a serious worry for Manny.

Even before this, I saw the fight as no better than 70-30 in his favour, and that's swinging away now. Before the second Marquez fight, there was a period in which there were regular rumours of Pacquiao not training hard, and reading between the lines, that period ending has coincided with his phenomenal permanences of late. But, in the past, against sub-prime 126 and 130 lb fighters, he could probably get away with being, say, 70 or 80%, but there's no way he can against Cotto

In Cotto, Pacquaio will be facing a big, strong and skillful boxer. I think Cotto did very well against Clottey, who is a big, big welterweight, with a very tight guard and an awkward style. He fought most of the match with a repulsive and debilitating cut, and still won by a couple of rounds, at least, I thought. He pushed Mosley all the way, and has only lost to a Margarito in the form of his life and possibly with loaded gloves.

Cotto isn't Duran, but he's a very, very good fighter who happens to be naturally much bigger than Manny. Surely Pacman can't be anyhting less than 100% if he is to win this.

Yet Cotto can still be grabbed at 2.875 at Bet365, and 3.15 at BetFair.

I think this may be one of those occassions where one bets on the guy you don't quite favour, just because it offers such outstanding value.

I think it's a tough fight for both men and there are so many different variables involved that it's not the type of fight to be betting on in my opinion.

ArtOfWar wrote:I think it's a tough fight for both men and there are so many different variables involved that it's not the type of fight to be betting on in my opinion.

Yes, but that's my point. It's a close fight that's difficult to pick but you can still get 2/1 or better on one guy.

That might be a case of taking the value.

I actually think Cotto losing on cuts might be a good outside bet. He'll be as dry as a Nun's chuff.

for me it's a situation where you place a bet on the guy you actually think will lose the fight because the value is just too good to turn down. Sounds strange though

Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Not good to hear that from Roach.....thing is, this fight is everything to Cotto, but for Manny it's just another fight really - he's already a legend and a loss wont be as devastating for him as it will be for Cotto.

MightyWarrior wrote:Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Not good to hear that from Roach.....thing is, this fight is everything to Cotto, but for Manny it's just another fight really - he's already a legend and a loss wont be as devastating for him as it will be for Cotto.

Yes, there is a chance that Cotto is totally shot and Pacman will have a field day - not something I personally believe.

I also think that Pacman can shake Cotto, but I also think that Cotto isn't going to just lunge in there and get himself slapped up like Hatton did. Running in there with your chin in the air is a sure fire way to get beat down.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Not good to hear that from Roach.....thing is, this fight is everything to Cotto, but for Manny it's just another fight really - he's already a legend and a loss wont be as devastating for him as it will be for Cotto.

Yes, there is a chance that Cotto is totally shot and Pacman will have a field day - not something I personally believe.

I also think that Pacman can shake Cotto, but I also think that Cotto isn't going to just lunge in there and get himself slapped up like Hatton did. Running in there with your chin in the air is a sure fire way to get beat down.

Yep, Hatton was a sitting duck, he really thought PacMan couldn't hurt him. Cotto is going to be a lot harder to break down. Manny will need to be on fire to win this, landing the type of punches that could bust up Cotto. But those left hooks to the body from Cotto could do some real damage.

MightyWarrior wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Not good to hear that from Roach.....thing is, this fight is everything to Cotto, but for Manny it's just another fight really - he's already a legend and a loss wont be as devastating for him as it will be for Cotto.

Yes, there is a chance that Cotto is totally shot and Pacman will have a field day - not something I personally believe.

I also think that Pacman can shake Cotto, but I also think that Cotto isn't going to just lunge in there and get himself slapped up like Hatton did. Running in there with your chin in the air is a sure fire way to get beat down.

Yep, Hatton was a sitting duck, he really thought PacMan couldn't hurt him. Cotto is going to be a lot harder to break down. Manny will need to be on fire to win this, landing the type of punches that could bust up Cotto. But those left hooks to the body from Cotto could do some real damage.

Yeah Hatton really fought stupid, Cotto will stalk, bang to the body, and use the ring to keep Manny from settling into a rhythymn.

Does anyone else think that all this 'unrest' in Pacmans camp could be mind games? I just kind of got that feeling from watching the first two 24/7 episodes and from Roach making it public that he wasn't happy with his training, could be completely wrong though.

i am starting to wonder about this one

my initial response was that i thought Pac would be able to bust Cotto up, not necessarily hurting him but opening cuts or damaging scartissue eyes/ nose/ mouth

i do wonder though. in terms of being offensively consistent vs a fast southpaw cotto did very well vs Judah.

of course those in favour of manny will reply he is leagues above Judah, oh, so much better chin/ more determined/ better ringcraft/ fitness/ whatever.

however manny hasn't proven any of that above 135lbs, still, IMO. and i have to wonder how his defence stacks up against Cotto's offence.

people are talking about cott's bodypunching.

personally i think his jab might be more important. i think he can genuinely hurt manny with the telegraph-pole-like jab of his. watch for manny waving his arms in the air after he gets hit by it.

IF Cotto lands the jab consistently, i think he wins this. he'll knock Pac out of his rythmn, make him wary of coming in too hard, and have him watching for the jab when other shots are coming in and hitting him.

genuinely undecided about this fight now.

interesting to see what tactics cotto goes for.

will he come out bombing or boxing and counter punching?

it's usually a mixture of the 2.

he's gotta save himself for the last 4 rds better than he has done in his last 2 big fights.

pac winds it up and comes on down the stretch.

pac on pts.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:interesting to see what tactics cotto goes for.

will he come out bombing or boxing and counter punching?

it's usually a mixture of the 2.

he's gotta save himself for the last 4 rds better than he has done in his last 2 big fights.

pac winds it up and comes on down the stretch.

pac on pts.

yeah, i am guessing it will be cautious kind of presure from cott

not sure Pac will be the one coming on strong, though

IF he takes shtos from Cott, it'll be the first time he's had to take the punches of a real fighter above 135lbs

for me that means who is strongest in last 4 rounds is up in the air until we see how Pac takes Cott's punches (assuming he lands some, but Pac is no defensive genius notwithstanding recent improvement)

Deno1986 wrote:Does anyone else think that all this 'unrest' in Pacmans camp could be mind games? I just kind of got that feeling from watching the first two 24/7 episodes and from Roach making it public that he wasn't happy with his training, could be completely wrong though.

I thought exactly the same thing. Surely Roach is too savvy to go public with his concerns if they were completely genuine?

Counter-puncher wrote: yeah, i am guessing it will be cautious kind of presure from cott

not sure Pac will be the one coming on strong, though

IF he takes shtos from Cott, it'll be the first time he's had to take the punches of a real fighter above 135lbs

for me that means who is strongest in last 4 rounds is up in the air until we see how Pac takes Cott's punches (assuming he lands some, but Pac is no defensive genius notwithstanding recent improvement)

Totally agree. I think too many people are over estimating Pacman on his ODLH and Hatton performances.
Cotto is a solid welterweight who has fought and beaten top guys in that division .. pacman beat a washed up weight drained ODLH, and landed a peach of a punch on a declining Hatton.
Cotto is a far more serious test. I pick Cotto to punish the Pacman

MightyWarrior wrote:Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Oh my GOD! THAT'S MY POINT. Am I just not making myself clear, or something? It's a close fight, and I don't think anyone can say which way it'll go, but one guy has very nice odds against and therefore represents value.

If there was a coin toss, mighty warrior, obviously you wouldn't be able to tell with any certainty which way it would go, but if someone offered you 2.15/1, you'd take it, wouldn't you, because it offered statistical value.

That's my point. I know it's a tough fight to call that could go either way, and that's why I think Cotto should be far closer to evens than he is.

Carbo wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Oh my GOD! THAT'S MY POINT. Am I just not making myself clear, or something? It's a close fight, and I don't think anyone can say which way it'll go, but one guy has very nice odds against and therefore represents value.

If there was a coin toss, mighty warrior, obviously you wouldn't be able to tell with any certainty which way it would go, but if someone offered you 2.15/1, you'd take it, wouldn't you, because it offered statistical value.

That's my point. I know it's a tough fight to call that could go either way, and that's why I think Cotto should be far closer to evens than he is.

its a shame opticald isn't around any more to give us the hotshot tipsters view. he certainly wouldn't be recalcitrant in doing so, if he were around that is.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Carbo wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Not a fight I'd bet on, because it's really hard to have a real idea what will happen. Cotto certainly hits hard enough to hurt PacMan, but the type of shots that put paid to Hatton will also shake up Cotto.

Oh my GOD! THAT'S MY POINT. Am I just not making myself clear, or something? It's a close fight, and I don't think anyone can say which way it'll go, but one guy has very nice odds against and therefore represents value.

If there was a coin toss, mighty warrior, obviously you wouldn't be able to tell with any certainty which way it would go, but if someone offered you 2.15/1, you'd take it, wouldn't you, because it offered statistical value.

That's my point. I know it's a tough fight to call that could go either way, and that's why I think Cotto should be far closer to evens than he is.

its a shame opticald isn't around any more to give us the hotshot tipsters view. he certainly wouldn't be recalcitrant in doing so, if he were around that is.

He can't come and give us the benefit of his wisdom, because he's busy trying to find a bookie that'll lay 1.7 trillion on Manny Pacquiao to win by 6th round KO at twenty fives.

Deserter wrote:

Deno1986 wrote:Does anyone else think that all this 'unrest' in Pacmans camp could be mind games? I just kind of got that feeling from watching the first two 24/7 episodes and from Roach making it public that he wasn't happy with his training, could be completely wrong though.

I thought exactly the same thing. Surely Roach is too savvy to go public with his concerns if they were completely genuine?

You're correct. Roach is a wily guy. He knows what he's doing.

Asterix wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Deno1986 wrote:Does anyone else think that all this 'unrest' in Pacmans camp could be mind games? I just kind of got that feeling from watching the first two 24/7 episodes and from Roach making it public that he wasn't happy with his training, could be completely wrong though.

I thought exactly the same thing. Surely Roach is too savvy to go public with his concerns if they were completely genuine?

You're correct. Roach is a wily guy. He knows what he's doing.

Not sure about that. There's really no point Freddie bluffing here, as Cotto isn't going to ease up on training when he hears this, no way.

I'd guess it's more likely Roach is genuinely pissed off, as you can imagine PacMan must have a few thousand yes men around him these days, telling him he just has to turn up to win.

MightyWarrior wrote:Not sure about that. There's really no point Freddie bluffing here, as Cotto isn't going to ease up on training when he hears this, no way.

I'd guess it's more likely Roach is genuinely pissed off, as you can imagine PacMan must have a few thousand yes men around him these days, telling him he just has to turn up to win.

Rather than it being bluffing, I think he's partly concerned and partly dramatising the situation for the viewers' sake. If there were any serious concerns they would be kept under wraps.

Asterix wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Not sure about that. There's really no point Freddie bluffing here, as Cotto isn't going to ease up on training when he hears this, no way.

I'd guess it's more likely Roach is genuinely pissed off, as you can imagine PacMan must have a few thousand yes men around him these days, telling him he just has to turn up to win.

Rather than it being bluffing, I think he's partly concerned and partly dramatising the situation for the viewers' sake. If there were any serious concerns they would be kept under wraps.

Could it not be a case of shaming Pacquiao into doing something?
Could it not be a case of getting his excuses in early to save his own reputation?
Could it not be a case of a truculent trainer who believes he doesn't need to hide anything and believes in calling a spade a spade and therefore will say what he thinks and damn the torpedoes?

There are lots of possibilities, but these rumours have been coming out of the camp for a long, long time now.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:I actually think Cotto losing on cuts might be a good outside bet. He'll be as dry as a Nun's chuff.

Not for this fight he won't! Obviously I can only go by what I've seen, but judging by the 24/7 footage, Cotto is not only ready, but is healthy!