BoxRec

This has probably been done to death but it always amuses me when people say things like Tyson woulda knocked Ali out…

Ali woulda destroyed Tysons notoriously fragile mental state before they even got anywhere near the ring…Ali thrived on the very thing which beat most Tyson opponents before the fight began – fear. Look at Ali’s histrionics in the three fights where he was most ‘afraid’ and arguably pulled out his best performances – Liston 1, Foreman and Frazier 3 – and there you have the blueprint for destroying Mikes mojo.

Can you imagine what Ali woulda made out of Mikes lisp and somewhat effeminate nature?



Ali always raised his game when he was underdog...and he woulda manipulated the situation so he appeared so against Mike...

Tyson would be angry... Ali would be skilled, cute and quick...

Ali would wear Tyson down... points victory/late stoppage...

However, that is not to say that I think it's impossible for Tyson, I reckon with Tyson's fury and power eh would win (at most) 3/10...

Yawn. Talked of so often, I'm not even sure I'd be interested if it could magically take place for real.

Only an armchair expert talks about this mythic 'mental state' of
fighters and how other fighters would win because of this or that.

I have seen confident men do daft things, and scared men do great
things.

This fight would not come down to any bullshit psyche crap conjured
up by some out of shape writer.

BUT the actual fighters abilities.

It is a real pick em fight for me because when you get down to it
both men were great for a period in time. And both had the elements
and essence to defeat the other.

I shall reserve my opinion on it. But don't sit back and think it would
be as simple as some pre fight antics throwing a fighter off, that
stuff is for the amusement of those in the crowd and nearly never
has any effect on the man who stands across from the other with
leather on his fists.

Last I checked, a man is actually made out of all his components. His noggin is part of who he is.

I think you take much of that out of the mix when you say "prime" since one would assume he brings his best day at the office with him. Which was likely a day when his noggin was screwed on pretty straight. But even then, it's up, operational and subject to all the things that the man in question was truly made of. Just like his left hook, right cross, jab, uppercut, speed, chin etc.

If in your hypothetical you toss any dynamic out, you're being lazy. Or maybe you just want to stack the deck regarding the outcome.

A fighter's mental strength is a part of him just as BoxBuzz said (in many ways the MOST important). You can't ignore it.

On his best night... You can't pretend that Paterson wasn't intimidated by Liston just because he wasn't intimidated by Jackson. Or Bruno wasn't intimidated by Tyson becasue he wasn't intimidated by Coetzee. Or that Frazier wasn't floored by Foreman because he wasn't dropped by Ali.

I know Kym's an athlete who works hard and understrands the physcial sacrifices better than most. I also agree that psyching out a great fighter helps but is not the end of the game. But there are many guilty of watching Tyson destory Berbick and believing he'd do this to everyone.

Tyson would have been tired by the 6th round, Ali by stoppage in the latter half of the fight.

Crease wrote:Tyson would be angry... Ali would be skilled, cute and quick...

Ali would wear Tyson down... points victory/late stoppage...

However, that is not to say that I think it's impossible for Tyson, I reckon with Tyson's fury and power eh would win (at most) 3/10...

Thats the way I see it going.

I do not see Ali 'psyching' Tyson out... how would he do this
and IF it did happen... what off it.

The point I was trying to make is that some times people make
more of this 'psyching' out business than there is to it.

Do people think that any of Ali's opponents did not want to
beat him any less or performed at half of their abilities because
he did a psyche job on them ? If you think that, then you have
read to many books on the sport by men who never competed.

Sure guys get scared, and frightened, over estimate and
under estimate opponents it happens all to often. But to sit back
and say that a Tyson=Ali affair will be influenced by this is daft.

Tyson's weaknesses outside of the ring were never anything to
do with another prize fighter. In some ways these were Ali's
weaknesses also.

I think peak for peak this has a beautiful marriage of skills, strengths
and talents.

It depends on how much the ref allows Ali to hold and what he can
get away with in the clinch. Ali will not be on his bike 'sticking and
moving' all night, he would find himself on the ropes and would have
to clinch. Tyson would be coming forwards alot and attacking that
body. And even the great Ali feels pain.

What makes you think Tyson would be scared of Ali, as say Patterson
was against Liston ?
Most of the fear a fighter feels is not 'fear' but fear of failure, failure
to perform well is a massive fear over some one's head. That is why
you train hard so you react. At this level we are talking about these
guys still perform well even with such a fear in mind.

Bruno and Patterson still got inside the ropes and landed shots, as
best as they could, heck a perfect example of a frightened man doing
well was in a MMA sense... Belfort vs Vanderlai Silva. Belfort was
all but going to cancel the fight, he was coerced into going in..,. and
bam in a few seconds he blasts Vanderlai away. Silva may have won the
'mental game'...but Belforti won the physical one and the fight.

I will say one thing though... a guy who is not right in the head will look
for an out when things get tough, whether they stay down when they
could get up, or simply try to surrender. This does not have much to
do with an opponents pre fight antics, but more to where the fighter
is in their own life... I guess a McCall in the rematch with Lewis is
an extreme example...Lewis did not do a 'number' on him, Mc Call was
plain messed up.

SO in these ways yes Mental is a big factor, BUT... I never rate the
examples given regarding ALi. And his abilities to play games iwth
opponents. Giving a name for an opponent or throwing out the race
card or calling some one is an Uncle Tom, are things for the fans,
media and some times come from plain meanness in a juvenille sense.
Frazier may have taken some things to heart that Ali said, I gurantee
Frazier just trained harder with that emotional fuel in mind.

I think fighting some one like Ali would be awesome to fight. He was funny,
and in his personal attacks they were never malicious in a loony weird
sense. It is his physical gifts, reflexes and ability to recover quick from hard
shots that would concern an opponent 'scouting' him. Not his pre fight
abilities to 'messs your mind', as though he is Cobra's Mind Bender.

I could see a prime Foreman, Tyson or Liston being more of an intimidation
to a fighter than an Ali, even for all his 'antics'. BUt at the end of the day
fighters have a tremendous amount of self belief, that is why they are
fighters.

A Ken Lakusta believed he could beat Foreman, a Steve Zouski believed
he was going to beat Mike Tyson.... these men fight to win, and train
as hard as they can. Even the guys no one writes books about or remembers.
They still train hard, dig deep inside of themselves and give it their all.
and some times that long shot wins...rare as it is. That is a fighters mind.

It is something a Bert Sugar will never hope to understand, no matter
how much he back slaps himself. Or talks about this mythic psyching out
of opponents by Ali.

Thats just my take on it all lads.

Makes some sense Robinson.
Better than the first image I had conjured from your first crack at the subject, which went something like this.

Thats a cool pic Buzz :)

Ali easy! example: look at what Douglas did to Tyson. Ali was a billion times better than Douglas.
Tyson beat a bunch of bums and then he beat Michael Spinks. Ali beat a whole list of elite fighters....if you think Tyson would win then your an idiot. You know nothing about boxing, stick to the UF Gay.

lucaselrey wrote:Ali easy! example: look at what Douglas did to Tyson. Ali was a billion times better than Douglas.
Tyson beat a bunch of bums and then he beat Michael Spinks. Ali beat a whole list of elite fighters....if you think Tyson would win then your an idiot. You know nothing about boxing, stick to the UF Gay.

Elite fighters like Lyle, Foreman, Spinks, and Norton...all of which you called bums in another thread. Way to just throw sh!t against the wall and hope it sticks. Ali also lost to 2 of those "bums". You are a true genius. There is no way you are a day over 17 years old, and if you are I am truly concerned for you.

jrc26 wrote:

lucaselrey wrote:Ali easy! example: look at what Douglas did to Tyson. Ali was a billion times better than Douglas.
Tyson beat a bunch of bums and then he beat Michael Spinks. Ali beat a whole list of elite fighters....if you think Tyson would win then your an idiot. You know nothing about boxing, stick to the UF Gay.

Elite fighters like Lyle, Foreman, Spinks, and Norton...all of which you called bums in another thread. Way to just throw sh!t against the wall and hope it sticks. Ali also lost to 2 of those "bums". You are a true genius. There is no way you are a day over 17 years old, and if you are I am truly concerned for you.

well i would feel stupid but if u know how to read you will see that i didn't list ANY of the elite fighters i was talking about. And did u honestly put Leon Spinks as an elite fighter? u are like the George W. Bush of boxing, a complete moron.

and please dont stop arguing with me. i live for arguments i enjoy nothing more than talking s*&t so please continue and allow me to destroy u.

The Tyson who beat Spinks or Berbick, barely lays a glove on the Ali that beat Liston or Williams. Ali was never the same fighter after the ban.

Good point but even after the ban he found a way to beat great fighters. now can u say the same with Tyson after he lost to Douglas?

I think this is an intriguing fight if you use say the Ali of Zaire, that would've been a real war.

The peak Ali of 1967 destroys Tyson in fairly one-sided fashion.