BoxRec

When we discuss the legacies of fighters today we naturally compare to fighters of yesteryear.

But what would happen if yesterdays greats actually came back and fought today?? Would they dominate due to class or have training techniques and diet moved on so much that mid-card fighters could beat them up??

Do we overate fighters from by-gone ages or are they shown no respect by tennagers who think boxing started with Ali and was taken to a new level by Tyson...

Thoughts please...

thepocketrocket wrote:When we discuss the legacies of fighters today we naturally compare to fighters of yesteryear.

But what would happen if yesterdays greats actually came back and fought today?? Would they dominate due to class or have training techniques and diet moved on so much that mid-card fighters could beat them up??

Do we overate fighters from by-gone ages or are they shown no respect by tennagers who think boxing started with Ali and was taken to a new level by Tyson...

Thoughts please...

IMO people 'Naturally' over rate boxers like Ali, Marciano, Ray Leonard, Foreman, etc

These are the boxers that crop up everywhere from time to time...

Boxers like Louis, Dempsey, Tunney and that are disrespected as they are lesser known and lesser thought of by new fans...

BTW I am a teenager and don't disrespect anybody...
You gotta have balls to step into the boxing ring and risk their life for entertainment...
You only gotta look back to Jonny Owen and it makes you look from a different angle...

Tough question. I could write a book on this, but won't. All I will say is, the best fighters of a particular era would be able to adapt and succeed in any other era of boxing. Of course, to achieve your full potential as a fighter you need to be stretched. Take Ali. We know how great he was because he had the competition. But due to the diluted world title situation today it's easier to avoid your best opponents. That's bad. It means there's a lot of incomplete fighters out there. Lewis and Bowe not getting together was a scandal, but Joe Calzaghe and Sven Ottke won't meet either because they can make plenty of dosh fighting handpicked challengers. So, again, they're not testing their full potential and that counts against them when you compare the two to, say, a Chris Eubank, who for all his showmanship, didn't duck anyone.
The 12-round distance also makes a big difference. Fighters prior to 12-rounders tended to be more patient in their approach to a championship fight and made sure they had more of a grounding before travelling that distance.
In short, fighters of generations past tended to be more rounded because they didn't avoid each other (Sugar Ray Robinson met Jake LaMotta six times!) and built themselves up to 15-round fights. Today, they don't need to do either.

Interesting thread, there are a few ways of looking at it.

Times change, lifestyles changeand another thing that has changes (which is important in this debate, believe it or not) is the TV pictures have changed over the years.

For me I think the Sport as a whole has developed a great deal since the era of Jack Johnson, through coaching techniques, more money (allowing more time to focus on boxing), refinement of the rules. And I think if you put a prime Jack Johnson in with a Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis then Tyson or Lewis wins.

Probably the first champion in the heavyweight devision who I think would get anhilated if you get a time capsule and put him in with either Tyson or Lewis would be Joe Louis. Watching him and already you can see the whole defense and the way he throws punches was so much more effective - that guy could really hit aswell.

I would still favour Tyson and Lewis due to their advantages in size, Tyson might not be that big, but he's damn strong. The other great champions between Johnson and Louis (Dempsey and Tunney) had a more rounded technique than Johnson, but I think Dempsey was an overrated champion and Tunney (while being highly underated) was far too small to mix it with today's superheavies.

But Louis had a shout cause he was a bit special.

I would think that Patterson, Marciano would be too small and even the Rock's great chin would succome to a Tyson/Lewis bomb. Liston was probably to slow and I think would have lost.

Ali, Foreman, Norton and Frazier would have ALL been in with a chance. Foreman showed that even at 44 he had enough to win the title and give Evander Holyfield one or two minor problems.

Would the Foreman Mark 1 beat Foreman Mark 2, of yes.

Ali was still the fastest most fluid Heavyweight I have ever seen on tape and I have seen all the champions. However, did the poor pictures (for Johnson there was only 1 camera shot, so if the fighters moved out of shot we'd see an empty ring) effect my opinion? Quite possibly. The Distant shots (and lack of close ups) that you get when watching a Louis or Ray Robinson definately effects your judgements. Most of the older writers who saw Robinson in the flesh will not have a bad thing said about him. I've seen him surely in a dozen fights on video, however while there no denying he wasn't great in these clips and his record in unsurpass I still maintain that the greatest boxer I have ever see P4P was Sugar Ray Leonard. Is it due to the poorer quality of the Robinson/Louis etc fights?

The problem with the argument is the three 3 greatest heavyweights of this generation (Holyfield, Lewis and Tyson) are all time great, legends who I will be discussing with my grand kids, like my father mentioned Ali. So the argument is not so exciting, all 3 are close or in the top ten Heavies of all time, regardless of era.

When you see fighters, who have been champions in the recent years with more glaring faults and not in the all time bracket (i.e. a Michael Moorer), then the argument is different. With his whiskers and conditioning for some of his contest (add to the fact he's a bulked up cruiser with average power) then I can see most of the twentieth centuries finest Heavyweights beating him. Same with Botha, Seldon and sorry Bruno.

Another problem is that for some its hard to compare, who do you compare Calzaghe/Ottke to. A Middleweight, a Light Heavyweight or can you only discuss it relating to the 16 or so years the Super Middleweight devision has been going.

interesting point. Calzaghe and Ottke would have to be compared to Light heavy greats because if they had to weigh in on the night like they did back in the day they couldnt make 160, Calzaghe would have to work hard to make 175 on the night

When I first watched a fight from the 60's i was amazed at how fit, strong and durable the fighters looked. After boxing 15 rounds alot looked like they could have gone on for another 15! Fighters back then trained just as hard, as fighters today, even though techniques have changed, if you think about it trainers still use the same basic principles.

Back then boxing was more popular and it wasn't surrounded with so much controvesy and show biz, just two men having a good scrap. It seemed like the crowd always got there money's worth!

All the fights that I have seen from back then have been so thrilling, I truly believe that great british fighters from yesteryears could come back and show todays fighters a thing or too!

This topic has so damn many points! I'll touch on a few.

"Boxers from the early 1900's could fight longer and were tougher."

Todays fighters COULD do the same, but the rules and training methods have greatly changed. Why? Mostly for boxer safety. Many of those early guys died or had brain trauma at a relatively young age. The rules reflect boxer safety, and keeping them at a healthy boxing level for as long as possible while trying to avoid injury.

However, I do believe that the boxers of the past were much stronger willed. Todays boxing gyms have too many luguries. Combine that with the huge paydays, and you'll see how easy it is for them to not train as hard. This is the main reason why boxers aren't as fit and can't handle 12 rounds that well.

Are they still good fighters? Yes. Could they be better and compete with the legends of old? If they could regain their desire to fight, yes they could. The boxers that come out of The Kronk Gym are an excellent example. Unfortunately, even they can fall victim the the 8,000 sactioning bodies and their bags of money.

And so, as was stated earlier, we are left with a fan base that thinks Ali started boxing and Tyson refined it.