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Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 09:12
by Wax On
Doherty loss puts future in doubt
Not seen this anywhere on here so far........apols if it's already been posted. Not good for Calzaghe Promotions!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/8367469.stm
Tony Doherty suffers another career blow as he KO'd by Geraint Harvey
Tony Doherty has suffered another career blow as the Welsh welterweight lost his comeback bout as he topped the Calzaghe Promotions bill in Newport.
The 26-year-old was knocked out in the third round by journeyman Geraint Harvey at the Newport Centre on Friday.
The once promising Doherty now faces an uphill task to rebuild his career.
Doherty insisted he had overcome his fitness issues and promised "future big titles" but was floored by Harvey in 'The Doc's' first fight in 18 months.
The former Commonwealth Games fighter lost to fellow Welshman Harvey as the 30-year-old from Mountain Ash celebrated only his seventh win in 51 professional fights.
Doherty, who is trained by renowned coach Enzo Calzaghe, had previously lost just once in a 23-fight career dating back to 2003 but this surprise defeat will cast doubts over his boxing future.
Doherty's stable-mate Hari Miles continued his development as the 24-year-old Blackwood boxer beat Nick Okoth on points in their six-rounder as the Londoner endured his fourth successive defeat.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 09:28
by Wales
big shock for Doc... a wasted talent.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 09:38
by Lenny
Wales wrote:big shock for Doc... a wasted talent.
Yeah, he's got to hate the different directions his and Kell Brook's careers have headed in.
Hopefully he can come again but I'll be very surprised if he fights again after this
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 09:47
by THEBUTCH
Harvey must have been more shocked than Doherty!
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 10:14
by whiskey
Game over.
Calzaghe promotions too.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 10:38
by Wales
not sure if its career over, he may have a few more fights, he can onyl be, what, 27 ? cant see him ever reaching the heights that were expected though. One of the best Welsh amateurs to switch over in years was doc, thought he might go as far as euro title.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 11:37
by Rocky Balboa
This just goes to show, to a certain extent, that if you do not live the life & treat your body like shit, it will come back to haunt you. Doherty was/is talented, but you cannot just rely on that & to do so is just ignorance.
I like Doherty, but I heard he was way out of condition, worse condition that the likes of Hatton in between fights. Heard Tony weighed like 16st, which is just plain ridiculous. Obviously, he may have had other issues to contend with while he was out of the ring, but I feel he could/should have taken care of himself a bit better!
Where he goes from here I do not know! He can forget about Kell Brook. Brook has ambitions to break into world class asap, Doherty is not near that level!
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 11:43
by taffytoon
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 11:58
by Wales
Rocky Balboa wrote:
I like Doherty, but I heard he was way out of condition, worse condition that the likes of Hatton in between fights. Heard Tony weighed like 16st, which is just plain ridiculous. Obviously, he may have had other issues to contend with while he was out of the ring, but I feel he could/should have taken care of himself a bit better!
I think it was just the one fight rather than it being a continual thing, but with all due respect to him I always thought he could make 140lbs when he was fighting at 147...
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 17:38
by mickey1975
BJ Saunders is destined for a big fall then.After all,he fits your criteria to a tee.Also,Henry Wharton,never fell to pieces in his life or lied about his age,that is 100% guaranteed.Our very own Londonirish,game as they come.Your right,that is a terrible generalisation,ill informed and racist.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 17:48
by MPG
mickey1975 wrote:BJ Saunders is destined for a big fall then.After all,he fits your criteria to a tee.Also,Henry Wharton,never fell to pieces in his life or lied about his age,that is 100% guaranteed.Our very own Londonirish,game as they come.Your right,that is a terrible generalisation,ill informed and racist.
Spot on Mickey,i was going to say the same things.You have Billy joe,Frankie Gavin,Martin Power,Billy Corocran,Pj Gallagher,Henry Wharton all Gypsies/Travelers who ALL FIT your Criteria of a typical gypsy bullyboy ? None of the Boxers above lied about their ages,none of the above fell to pieces when they were hit back.
Mrrocco,you make me laugh and haven't got a clue about what your talking about.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 18:09
by Londonirish
MPG wrote:mickey1975 wrote:BJ Saunders is destined for a big fall then.After all,he fits your criteria to a tee.Also,Henry Wharton,never fell to pieces in his life or lied about his age,that is 100% guaranteed.Our very own Londonirish,game as they come.Your right,that is a terrible generalisation,ill informed and racist.
Spot on Mickey,i was going to say the same things.You have Billy joe,Frankie Gavin,Martin Power,Billy Corocran,Pj Gallagher,Henry Wharton all Gypsies/Travelers who ALL FIT your Criteria of a typical gypsy bullyboy ? None of the Boxers above lied about their ages,none of the above fell to pieces when they were hit back.
Mrrocco,you make me laugh and haven't got a clue about what your talking about.
X3
Mrrocco
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 22:21
by Des1
mrrocco wrote:Doherty is (and I'm ready to hear all the generalising, racist etc counter posts) effectively your typical Gypsy bully boy on top fighter who's a great junior (probably faked up his age) but fails when they start to hit back,,,,,
Tut tut
And I thought we was heading into a new generation.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 05:14
by Wales
Im pretty sure Doc dint lie about his age, I remember him at about 20 out pointing Aaron thomas by 20 in the Welsh amateur semi finals. He had around 200 (if not more) amateur fights and was an accomplished senior.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 06:29
by slapbangwhallop
Londonirish wrote:MPG wrote:mickey1975 wrote:BJ Saunders is destined for a big fall then.After all,he fits your criteria to a tee.Also,Henry Wharton,never fell to pieces in his life or lied about his age,that is 100% guaranteed.Our very own Londonirish,game as they come.Your right,that is a terrible generalisation,ill informed and racist.
Spot on Mickey,i was going to say the same things.You have Billy joe,Frankie Gavin,Martin Power,Billy Corocran,Pj Gallagher,Henry Wharton all Gypsies/Travelers who ALL FIT your Criteria of a typical gypsy bullyboy ? None of the Boxers above lied about their ages,none of the above fell to pieces when they were hit back.
Mrrocco,you make me laugh and haven't got a clue about what your talking about.
Londonirish, the ill-informed poster with regards Doherty's age does raise an interesting issue with regards travellers. I cant comment on English/Romany gypsies because I don't have sufficient knowledge of their culture but I have wondered why Irish travellers have usually failed to make the grade as pros.
The Irish amateur scene is awash with talented young Irish travellers and in fact two of the Irish team at the Olympics were travellers. But even their (JJ Joyce and JJ Nevin) relationship with each other was telling of underlying issues that travellers face as they get older. The pair lived together on the same flat (with Barnes, Egan and Sutherland), eat meals, trained, relaxed, played the playstation together but never spoke a word to each other during the whole time the were in Beijing as their families are feuding.
Is this part of the reason? they get distracted from training when family issues arise, they get dragged into fights outside the ring because they are expected to? They are expected to work with other family members and miss gym work?
I've never thought caravan living and/or travelling culture was conducive to being a professional athlete. It's not an easy life on the road and even in halting sites. Forgive me if I am wrong but I've never thought the diet of the travellers I know was any good and infact was shockingly bad and some of these were fighters. Also the drinking culture cant help.
Anyway that is how I rationalised the lack of progression of Irish travellers from good amateurs to good pros. Although I did notice that two McDonagh boys from Mullingar made their debuts in Belfast on the weekend so hopefully things are changing.
One poster above says that Frankie Gavin is a traveller - I wasnt aware of this. Also I heard that Andy Lee was a traveller - anyone confirm!? (if he is then I dont think Lee is the type of fighter that couldnt be decribed as bullyboy, which throws yermans and possibly my theories out of the window).
X3
Mrrocco
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 07:04
by mickey1975
A lot do lose their way,but isnt that the same with any "race".In my area alone,we had Levi Pattison,Danny James(Jesse),Pinky Burton,and George Robshaw who packed in with good records and Levi and Pinky on the verge of bigger things.But if you trawl the boxrec records,im sure you will find many more non-gypsies who have done the same,its just the majority of ex-pros i know are travellers.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 07:44
by MPG
slapbangwhallop....IMO You are spot on in why you think Travelers (in most case's) don't go on bigger and better things as a pro.
Andy Lee is a Traveller & Frankie Gavins Dad is a Traveller.
Am i right in saying that you think Andy Lee is a BullyBoy ?If so,whats makes you think this ? Hasn't he done well so far in his career ?
George Robshaw is a nice bloke and good boxer who boxed for the Dale Youth if i remember correctly.Dale Youth had a few Travellers as amateurs,all schoolboy champions,Junior aba champions but with the points slapbangwhallop posted above didn't go onto bigger things or even turn professional with the exception of John O'Donnell (Dale Youth)John has a Brother Name Martin who won everything as an Amateur (Junior) IMO Would have been excellent as a pro but i think he got married young as many Travellers do and boxing becomes less priority.
With regards to the age thing,Mrrocco,Am i right in saying that you think that Travelles walk into gym around the ages of 13 and say that they are 10 and therefore have an advantage over their opponents at junior level until they turn Senior when they will fight guys their own age or older ? Could you give me an example of a Traveller boxer you think may have done this ? As i and others have given you many Travellers/gypsies Boxers that have gone to the seniors and professional ranks and have done well.
Its when you say TYPICAL Gypsy Bullyboy that i don't like,you may know of a Traveller that has lied about his age and has fallen short when he has turned senior but to generalize all Travellers boxers is wrong.So i'm thinking that you don't rate Frankie Gavins Achievement in becoming the 1st ever English World Amateur Champion ?
EDIT:Just to add to My brother John Didn't start off well as a JUNIOR Boxer and did a lot better as a Senior,He beat Graham Earl once as a junior and once as a senior.He also beat Danny Happe (Repton) & David Walker on the Same night in the London Senior ABA Finals Before losing to Ricky Hatton by 3 points in the Semi's,The same year Ricky knock out all of his opponents including in the final when he won his ABA title.
My other Brother Pj had a good amateur Career and went on to win the British Title as a professional.
So your theory that Travellers/Gypsies Lie about their age is WRONG.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 08:32
by mickey1975
George did box for Dale youth along with brother Reg,and both won various schoolboy titles.Both turned pro in Yorkshire though.They have another brother,John Henry,who boxes for Burmantofts in Leeds and was a junior A.B.A semi finalist this year and has just moved up to the seniors(69kg).
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 09:42
by slapbangwhallop
Ah right, I had heard that Lee was, but never knew Gavin was. it's just Gavin and Lee woldnt really be recognised as travellers names - not where I am from anyway (Sweeney, Ward, McDonagh, McGinley). If I am right Gavin doesnt have anything to do with his ould fella.
No, I am saying Lee definately aint a "bullyboy" - in fact I would have him down as a "slickster" of sorts. Technically great but wouldnt be the mauling marauding type.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 10:18
by MPG
slapbangwhallop wrote:Ah right, I had heard that Lee was, but never knew Gavin was. it's just Gavin and Lee woldnt really be recognised as travellers names - not where I am from anyway (Sweeney, Ward, McDonagh, McGinley). If I am right Gavin doesnt have anything to do with his ould fella.
No, I am saying Lee definately aint a "bullyboy" - in fact I would have him down as a "slickster" of sorts. Technically great but wouldnt be the mauling marauding type.
Sorry that i miss quoted you slapbangwhallop.Andy's Family were originally based in London and his Brothers box for the Repton,His brother Ned was a talented Boxer aswell,same height & style as Andy.You would find Travellers by the name of Lee are Based in Essex,Kent and London.
There are loads of Travellers by the name of Gavin in Dublin.
Yes,Frankie's Parents split up when Frankie was a kid.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 10:41
by teddy007
There is some truth in a lot of gypsy's are bullys, when you hit them back or stand up to them their ars*es fallout and I will include the supposedly various barefist gypsys boxing champions I and some guys I know have beaten up when we dont take their sh!t.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 10:43
by slapbangwhallop
MPG wrote:slapbangwhallop wrote:Ah right, I had heard that Lee was, but never knew Gavin was. it's just Gavin and Lee woldnt really be recognised as travellers names - not where I am from anyway (Sweeney, Ward, McDonagh, McGinley). If I am right Gavin doesnt have anything to do with his ould fella.
No, I am saying Lee definately aint a "bullyboy" - in fact I would have him down as a "slickster" of sorts. Technically great but wouldnt be the mauling marauding type.
Sorry that i miss quoted you slapbangwhallop.Andy's Family were originally based in London and his Brothers box for the Repton,His brother Ned was a talented Boxer aswell,same height & style as Andy.You would find Travellers by the name of Lee are Based in Essex,Kent and London.
There are loads of Travellers by the name of Gavin in Dublin.
Yes,Frankie's Parents split up when Frankie was a kid.
I think Frankie ould fella was from Derry and his mother from Tipperary.
Yeah I know the Lee brothers were at Repton prior to going back and fighting for St. Francis. Lee's brother Ned works Andy's corner and I've notice that he seems to listen more to his brother than his trainer (Joey Gamache)
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 10:48
by MPG
teddy007 wrote:There is some truth in a lot of gypsy's are bullys, when you hit them back or stand up to them their ars*es fallout and I will include the supposedly various barefist gypsys boxing champions I and some guys I know have beaten up when we dont take their sh!t.
You will get Bully's in all walks of life.In saying that theres a lot of Bully's in Travellers makes me think that you have had no luck in finding the decent Travellers out there which there is plenty off including myself
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 11:29
by teddy007
MPG wrote:teddy007 wrote:There is some truth in a lot of gypsy's are bullys, when you hit them back or stand up to them their ars*es fallout and I will include the supposedly various barefist gypsys boxing champions I and some guys I know have beaten up when we dont take their sh!t.
You will get Bully's in all walks of life.In saying that theres a lot of Bully's in Travellers makes me think that you have had no luck in finding the decent Travellers out there which there is plenty off including myself
I no what you mean, I have some very good traveller/gypsy friends so I would'nt and dont tare everyone with the same brush.
Re: Tony Doherty knocked out by Journey man
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 17:04
by steve689
Wales wrote:big shock for Doc... a wasted talent.
I wondered why he was never stepped up in class. His record reveals a shocking collection of stale imports and journeymen with losing records.