BoxRec

Had the bout with Frank Erne been for the lightweight title, rather than at catchweight, Terry McGovern would have been the first man to hold three titles simultaneously at three different weight classes. He kayoed Tom Palmer in one round for the bantamweight title, George Dixon for the featherweight title, and fought Erne who was the lightweight champ.

Had the bout been lightweight, we'd be talking about the great Terry McGovern, possibly, more so than the great Henry Armstrong. Maybe we wouldn't, because McGovern wasn't the same following his bout with Erne, due to his erratic behavior outside the ring. McGovern's mental state effected his matches with Young Corbett II, where he lost twice by knockout as well as his featherweight title---his career afterward was a slippery slope down to the bottom of boxing.

Armstrong on the other hand, could have held titles at 4 different weight classes at the same time, had he not agreed to a prearrangement before his bout with Ceferino Garcia, the middleweight champion of the world. As the lore goes, both men agreed if there were no knockdowns, or knockouts, that the fight would be declared a draw. Armstrong clearly outpointed Garcia, but went the distance and had to take the draw verdict.

Therefore, we remember Armstrong as the only man in boxing history to have held three titles at three weight classes. The only real difference between what Armstrong did, and what McGovern did was that the welterweight title was on the line when Ross and Armstrong met in the ring, while McGovern and Erne met in a non-title bout.

Some may look at McGovern's win over Erne the same way they look at Walter Edgerton's kayo victory over Kid Chocolate in an exhibition bout. KC was the champ and Edgerton defeated him, exhibition or not. It was a fluke in people's eyes, nothing more or less, and nothing was on the line---but to the boxing purists, such events do hold water.

McGovern could have been the first but politics stood in the way. Armstrong could have broke his own record, but politics stood in the way as well. In the end, we have a two division title holder who could have held one more belt, and a three division title holder who could have won a fourth.

My question is, is Terry McGovern on par with Henry Armstrong? And if not, what is your reasons behind that opinion? If so, why is he?

While McGovern was an ATG, and often times gets over looked, I can't rate him anywhere near Armstrong, mostly because his resume, while great, wasn't on a par with Armstrongs.

simply no.

No.

As John L noted, McGovern simply lacks the resume of Armstrong. Henry did it in 3 . .should have been 4 different weight classes in boxing's golden age, beating several fellow ATGs in the process . . .simply amazing.

McGovern isn't in the class of someone like Armstrong, whether he "should've" won the lightweight title or not. He's more comparable to someone like Tyson or Liston, who blazed through the ranks for a couple years like a firestorm, but then was tested and folded against an opponent who gave him a taste of his own medicine, and never was the same afterward.

HomicideHenry wrote: . . .
Therefore, we remember Armstrong as the only man in boxing history to have held three titles at three weight classes.
. . .

Don't include me in your "we."

I have heard of Bob Fitzsimmons.

Apparently you haven't.

Henry Armstrong held 3 world titles simultaneously, Bob Fitzsimmons didnt

Hell to the no.

What the great Henry Armstrong did in one year, winning 27 fights in a row, 26 straight by KO, I believe was amazing. From 1937 to 1940, Armstrong record was like 59-1-1? That is a whole career to a lot of fighters. That is mind boggling.

We are talking about the greatest of all time I believe.

Even though the great Terry McGovern was awesome in his own right, he cannot match Armstrong's achievements. Both to me, are top 50 all time pound per pound...no matter how you look at it.

elmersalsa wrote:Hell to the no.

What the great Henry Armstrong did in one year, winning 27 fights in a row, 26 straight by KO, I believe was amazing. From 1937 to 1940, Armstrong record was like 59-1-1? That is a whole career to a lot of fighters. That is mind boggling.

We are talking about the greatest of all time I believe.

Even though the great Terry McGovern was awesome in his own right, he cannot match Armstrong's achievements. Both to me, are top 50 all time pound per pound...no matter how you look at it.

Baer knocked out 24 men in four months time. You dont see his name among the ATG heavyweights.

dr_devious wrote:Henry Armstrong held 3 world titles simultaneously, Bob Fitzsimmons didnt

But that isn't what it said in what was quoted from Henry.

I never said Fitzsimmons held three world titles at once. He was MW champ, then became HW, and years later into his 40's damn near he became LHW champion. All were at different times and years apart from the other.

HomicideHenry wrote:I never said Fitzsimmons held three world titles at once. He was MW champ, then became HW, and years later into his 40's damn near he became LHW champion. All were at different times and years apart from the other.

HERE is what you wrote, Henry:

HomicideHenry wrote: . . .
Therefore, we remember Armstrong as the only man in boxing history to have held three titles at three weight classes.
. . .

What you wrote was WRONG, since much earlier, Fitz won three titles--middleweight, heavyweight, and lightheavyweight.

HomicideHenry wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Hell to the no.

What the great Henry Armstrong did in one year, winning 27 fights in a row, 26 straight by KO, I believe was amazing. From 1937 to 1940, Armstrong record was like 59-1-1? That is a whole career to a lot of fighters. That is mind boggling.

We are talking about the greatest of all time I believe.

Even though the great Terry McGovern was awesome in his own right, he cannot match Armstrong's achievements. Both to me, are top 50 all time pound per pound...no matter how you look at it.

Baer knocked out 24 men in four months time. You dont see his name among the ATG heavyweights.

Did Baer record in 3 years was 59-1-1?

HomicideHenry wrote:
Baer knocked out 24 men in four months time.

When did he do that?

Following his loss to Joe Louis, Max Baer went on a whirlwind boxing tour of the United States. In a four month span he beat 20 (sorry not 24) men. Dunno why BR has the Willie Davies bout listed, considering it was an exhibition, but oh well. He kayoed 15 of the 20 men.

HomicideHenry wrote:Following his loss to Joe Louis, Max Baer went on a whirlwind boxing tour of the United States. In a four month span he beat 20 (sorry not 24) men. Dunno why BR has the Willie Davies bout listed, considering it was an exhibition, but oh well. He kayoed 15 of the 20 men.

He still fell well short of Armstrong's feat then.