The Guys Ali Missed Out On
Posted: 24 Nov 2009, 13:05
While it's true Muhammad Ali faced virtually every big time player in the game from both sides of the Atlantic, there are a few names that can be thrown out too.
These men will be named, their significance at that time, and for all intents and purposes they will be analyzed to the best of possibility if they were eligible enough to get have a case to face 'The Greatest'.
This article isn't taking away from Muhammad Ali in no way, shape or form. In no way will this article even hint that any of the following would have had a rainmaker's chance in hell against him. These are the guys who either had their window of opprotunity and missed out, or were just a notch below.
Ali fought Liston twice, Norton trice, Frazier trice, Foreman, Shavers, Young, Ellis, Mathis, Chuvalo twice, Patterson twice, Bonavena, Quarry twice...the list goes on and on, and any losses were avenged two fold.
Here, is the list:
Jack Bodell
At the time Muhammad Ali had defeated Quarry, Bonavena, lost to Joe Frazier and defeated Jimmy Ellis. He was a top contender, but had yet to face Ken Norton. On October 10th, 1971 he attended a dinner sponsered by the World Sporting Club, and took a publicity shot with the British and Empire Heavyweight champion.
Bodell was a handsome young heavyweight who had fought the likes of Henry Cooper and Joe Bugner. While his record had its blips, he was certainly on par with Brian London, whom Ali fought 6 years before. For the moment it seemed talks of an Ali-Bodell bout would happen, but it wasn't too long before Ali was in Switzerland taking on Jurgen Blin and later Al Lewis in Ireland.
The door was wide open, the opprotunity was there. Why didn't it happen? It was a 50/50 scenario here. Ali could have taken the fight, but his personality and willingness to fight anyone, anywhere was too much to hold him down to any one opponent not named Joe Frazier. Also, Bodell's reign as British champ was short lived. By proxy, Bodell's chances were blown because of his own inconsistency.
How would this match have gone? Its hard to say. Bodell never fought the prime Henry Cooper, whom he went the distance with. Based on his record, however, considering he would lose a decision to Joe Bugner, he would have lost a wide decision to Muhammad Ali, who by the way would beat Bugner via decision in 1973.
Gerrie Coetzee & John Tate & Mike Weaver
At the time, the #1 contender for the WBA title was Gerrie Coetzee. Ali had just upset Leon Spinks over fifteen rounds in their rematch, and it was Coetzee who challenged the now three-time heavyweight champ following victory.
However, nobody noticed, as Ali's speech of fighting for so many years was wearing down on him and possible retirement, caught everyone's attention. That was September 15th, 1978. It wouldn't be until June 26th, 1979 that Ali would officially retire from the ring.
Coetzee tried for nearly 9 months to get Ali into the ring, but evidentially Ali was more interested in having an eight round exhibition with Lyle Alzado and the likes of John L. Gardner when he did a series of exhibitions in England.
Coetzee got his chance at gold on October 26th, 1979 against John Tate for Ali's vacated WBA title. Tate would win the decision.
However, in 1980 Ali announced his return to the ring. Tate had won a controversial decision over Mike Weaver since winning the title, but was open to negotiations with Muhammad Ali. It was agreed upon that Tate would fight Ali, but when Tate got kayoed late in the fight by Weaver in their rematch, Ali had to make negotiations with Weaver.
Unfortunately for Ali, the fight with Weaver didn't make it past the negotiation table. It was ultimately decided in the end that a fight with Larry Holmes, who was considered by many to be the true heavyweight king, would be more financially lucrative for Muhammad Ali. Sadly, we all know how that fight ended up.
The big question at hand is how Coetzee, Tate and Weaver would have stacked against Muhammad Ali in the 1978-1980 years. One thing is clear that Coetzee was no Spinks, as 'The Bionic Hand' kayoed 'Neon' Leon in one round, and Ali was in the beginning stages of Parkinson's Syndrome.
Many fans, however, seem to believe that Coetzee would have not been able to kayo Ali, or win a decision. Whatever. One thing is for certain though, had Ali fought either Tate or Weaver, they would have more than likely been less sympathetic than Holmes, who was Ali's friend and former sparring partner.
Holmes played with Ali with kid gloves and even begged the referee to stop the fight, rather than have to continue hitting Ali. Tate and Weaver would have wanted the recognition of beating a legend, even a fading legend and both were big, strong, hard hitting heavyweights.
In this writers opinion, Ali would have lost to all three. Would it have meant much? Probably not. This wasn't the same Ali who fought Frazier in Manila, or the Ali who bedazzled Sonny Liston. This was a man whose reflexes, speed and ring abilities were completely shot, as he landed only ten punches in ten rounds against Holmes.
But Coetzee, Tate and Weaver were deserving and had their windows. Ali retired rather than face Coetzee, wanted Tate but 'Big' John got kayoed, and Weaver didn't command the money that Holmes could have brought. Personal decision, inconsistency, and politics effected their chances.
Duane Bobick
Had he just defeated Ken Norton, he would have gotten Muhammad Ali. Instead history didn't turn out that way. Bobick had all the promise in the world to be the next big thing. As an amateur he defeated Teofilio Stevenson and Larry Holmes. As a pro he was undefeated in 40 plus bouts, and even kayoed Chuck Wepner.
He was 'The Great White Hope' in Ali's eyes, and much more styled for him than what Ken Norton would be, for if Norton won, a fourth encounter between the two men was going to take place, it was all in the contract.
Bobick, however, left the heavyweight picture as quickly as he came into it. Norton slammed home a right hook to Bobick's throat and Bobick never recovered. He was bombarded with a series of powershots and succumbed under the pressure. He was kayoed in the first round. Norton rejoiced, but Ali and Bobick groaned.
Ali wanted Bobick, not Norton. Bobick let him down. Ironically years later a drunken Duane Bobick would recall that Leon Spinks was gutless for not taking on Ken Norton, and referred to Ali as 'Clay', saying that given the opprotunity he would fight him. The chance of a life time was lost forever, and Bobick will forever lament that fact as long as he will ever live.
How would Duane Bobick have done against Ali had he not been kayoed by Norton? Its hard to say. He was a banger who relied solely on his size and strength to wear down opponents. Ali would have relished facing someone such as Bobick, whose style mirrored George Foreman's. Bobick more than likely would have faded down the stretch and Ali would have either kayoed him because of his exhaustion, or out pointed him in those later rounds.
Bobick would continue boxing for a few more years, losing to John Tate and George Chaplin by kayo, before retiring. The only title ever won in his life time was the fictitous title he 'won' in the little known and seen picture 'Billy Bob'.
Just For Fun...
Here's a shout out to the men who called out Muhammad Ali throughout the years. Some you may have heard of, others you may need to research. In either case, here's a short list of those extraordinary men who were either brave or stupid enough to call out 'The Greatest'...
Lenny McLean, The Guv'nor
The premiere star of Britain's White Collar Circuit, Lenny McLean was known throughout the world, mainly for his bare knuckle bout with the Mafia's number one bouncer John McCormick. Celebrities ranging from Gene Hackman to Mickey Rourke were present when McLean kayoed McCormick, and even prompted Sylvester Stallone to say that 'The Guv'nor' was the real Rocky.
However, McLean's sights were set on more than facing local tough guys and license expired boxers, though his criminal status would never allow him to box professionally. His cousin was promoter allegedly, and he had the name, following and connections, however, to make it as a pro.
It was during Ali's many tours of England that McLean called out Muhammad Ali, and the support was great. It wasn't the first time McLean had attempted to face off with well known boxers, as he was scheduled to meet Paul Sykes, though that fight would never take place.
Ali, having no interest in getting involved with the White Collar Circuit and many underworld types associated with it, never took McLean's challenge up. It must be noted that McLean bested Roy Shaw two out of three, the same Roy Shaw who defeated heavyweight contender Ron Stander who fught Joe Frazier for the heavyweight title.
McLean's chances, though, would have been slim. He was kayoed in one round to both Cliff Fields and Johnny Waldron*, as well as Kevin Paddock. All three of those men were former professionals who either suffered injury that ended their careers effectively or who had trouble with the law that prevented them from ever fighting in a pro ring again. They were not world class, and Ali was.
McLean would have lost easily.
*Johnny Waldron would continue into the 1990's on the White Collar Circuit, where he accomplished his greatest feat, by knocking out Julius Francis in the first round in his 40's---Francis would become the British Heavyweight champion a few months later!
Wilt Chamberlain
The NBA star was considered the greatest basketball player of all time. He once scored 100 points in a single game, and once went an entire season without a foul. Standing more then 7'1" and weighing 280 pounds, Chamberlain was fed up with his contract and hinted at the notion of going into boxing.
Negotiations for a fight with Floyd Patterson were discussed, but when the possibility of an Ali match could be winnable, Chamberlain wanted in. He was told that if he was trained solely for Ali for over a year, to be conditioned 15 rounds, that with his height and reach he could keep Ali at bay and possibly win the title.
The two men met on ABC's Wide World of Sports and traded trash talk. Chamberlain insisted he was still interested in fighting Ali, but evidentially sense came to him, and he dropped the notion of fighting Muhammad Ali.
Ali said it best when asked his prediction on a fight with Chamberlain:
'Timberrrrrrrrrrr!'
Teofilio Stevenson
The two time Olympic gold medalist was offered a million dollars in 1978 if he would fight Muhammad Ali. The deal was broke into two scenarios, either Stevenson would fight Ali over 15 rounds, or the two men would fight a series of four round bouts. The man who won the most rounds in that series would claim victory.
As perposterous as it all sounded, there was much hype and build up about the Cuban turning professional. Stevenson, a loyal Communist, refused to go against his country's policies, and declined the million dollars and title shot at Ali.
Ali, in retrospect, gave Stevenson much due credit, saying had the two men ever fought that it probably would have ended in a draw. It was the closest he ever said in his entire professional career that another boxer was on par with him.
These men will be named, their significance at that time, and for all intents and purposes they will be analyzed to the best of possibility if they were eligible enough to get have a case to face 'The Greatest'.
This article isn't taking away from Muhammad Ali in no way, shape or form. In no way will this article even hint that any of the following would have had a rainmaker's chance in hell against him. These are the guys who either had their window of opprotunity and missed out, or were just a notch below.
Ali fought Liston twice, Norton trice, Frazier trice, Foreman, Shavers, Young, Ellis, Mathis, Chuvalo twice, Patterson twice, Bonavena, Quarry twice...the list goes on and on, and any losses were avenged two fold.
Here, is the list:
Jack Bodell
At the time Muhammad Ali had defeated Quarry, Bonavena, lost to Joe Frazier and defeated Jimmy Ellis. He was a top contender, but had yet to face Ken Norton. On October 10th, 1971 he attended a dinner sponsered by the World Sporting Club, and took a publicity shot with the British and Empire Heavyweight champion.
Bodell was a handsome young heavyweight who had fought the likes of Henry Cooper and Joe Bugner. While his record had its blips, he was certainly on par with Brian London, whom Ali fought 6 years before. For the moment it seemed talks of an Ali-Bodell bout would happen, but it wasn't too long before Ali was in Switzerland taking on Jurgen Blin and later Al Lewis in Ireland.
The door was wide open, the opprotunity was there. Why didn't it happen? It was a 50/50 scenario here. Ali could have taken the fight, but his personality and willingness to fight anyone, anywhere was too much to hold him down to any one opponent not named Joe Frazier. Also, Bodell's reign as British champ was short lived. By proxy, Bodell's chances were blown because of his own inconsistency.
How would this match have gone? Its hard to say. Bodell never fought the prime Henry Cooper, whom he went the distance with. Based on his record, however, considering he would lose a decision to Joe Bugner, he would have lost a wide decision to Muhammad Ali, who by the way would beat Bugner via decision in 1973.
Gerrie Coetzee & John Tate & Mike Weaver
At the time, the #1 contender for the WBA title was Gerrie Coetzee. Ali had just upset Leon Spinks over fifteen rounds in their rematch, and it was Coetzee who challenged the now three-time heavyweight champ following victory.
However, nobody noticed, as Ali's speech of fighting for so many years was wearing down on him and possible retirement, caught everyone's attention. That was September 15th, 1978. It wouldn't be until June 26th, 1979 that Ali would officially retire from the ring.
Coetzee tried for nearly 9 months to get Ali into the ring, but evidentially Ali was more interested in having an eight round exhibition with Lyle Alzado and the likes of John L. Gardner when he did a series of exhibitions in England.
Coetzee got his chance at gold on October 26th, 1979 against John Tate for Ali's vacated WBA title. Tate would win the decision.
However, in 1980 Ali announced his return to the ring. Tate had won a controversial decision over Mike Weaver since winning the title, but was open to negotiations with Muhammad Ali. It was agreed upon that Tate would fight Ali, but when Tate got kayoed late in the fight by Weaver in their rematch, Ali had to make negotiations with Weaver.
Unfortunately for Ali, the fight with Weaver didn't make it past the negotiation table. It was ultimately decided in the end that a fight with Larry Holmes, who was considered by many to be the true heavyweight king, would be more financially lucrative for Muhammad Ali. Sadly, we all know how that fight ended up.
The big question at hand is how Coetzee, Tate and Weaver would have stacked against Muhammad Ali in the 1978-1980 years. One thing is clear that Coetzee was no Spinks, as 'The Bionic Hand' kayoed 'Neon' Leon in one round, and Ali was in the beginning stages of Parkinson's Syndrome.
Many fans, however, seem to believe that Coetzee would have not been able to kayo Ali, or win a decision. Whatever. One thing is for certain though, had Ali fought either Tate or Weaver, they would have more than likely been less sympathetic than Holmes, who was Ali's friend and former sparring partner.
Holmes played with Ali with kid gloves and even begged the referee to stop the fight, rather than have to continue hitting Ali. Tate and Weaver would have wanted the recognition of beating a legend, even a fading legend and both were big, strong, hard hitting heavyweights.
In this writers opinion, Ali would have lost to all three. Would it have meant much? Probably not. This wasn't the same Ali who fought Frazier in Manila, or the Ali who bedazzled Sonny Liston. This was a man whose reflexes, speed and ring abilities were completely shot, as he landed only ten punches in ten rounds against Holmes.
But Coetzee, Tate and Weaver were deserving and had their windows. Ali retired rather than face Coetzee, wanted Tate but 'Big' John got kayoed, and Weaver didn't command the money that Holmes could have brought. Personal decision, inconsistency, and politics effected their chances.
Duane Bobick
Had he just defeated Ken Norton, he would have gotten Muhammad Ali. Instead history didn't turn out that way. Bobick had all the promise in the world to be the next big thing. As an amateur he defeated Teofilio Stevenson and Larry Holmes. As a pro he was undefeated in 40 plus bouts, and even kayoed Chuck Wepner.
He was 'The Great White Hope' in Ali's eyes, and much more styled for him than what Ken Norton would be, for if Norton won, a fourth encounter between the two men was going to take place, it was all in the contract.
Bobick, however, left the heavyweight picture as quickly as he came into it. Norton slammed home a right hook to Bobick's throat and Bobick never recovered. He was bombarded with a series of powershots and succumbed under the pressure. He was kayoed in the first round. Norton rejoiced, but Ali and Bobick groaned.
Ali wanted Bobick, not Norton. Bobick let him down. Ironically years later a drunken Duane Bobick would recall that Leon Spinks was gutless for not taking on Ken Norton, and referred to Ali as 'Clay', saying that given the opprotunity he would fight him. The chance of a life time was lost forever, and Bobick will forever lament that fact as long as he will ever live.
How would Duane Bobick have done against Ali had he not been kayoed by Norton? Its hard to say. He was a banger who relied solely on his size and strength to wear down opponents. Ali would have relished facing someone such as Bobick, whose style mirrored George Foreman's. Bobick more than likely would have faded down the stretch and Ali would have either kayoed him because of his exhaustion, or out pointed him in those later rounds.
Bobick would continue boxing for a few more years, losing to John Tate and George Chaplin by kayo, before retiring. The only title ever won in his life time was the fictitous title he 'won' in the little known and seen picture 'Billy Bob'.
Just For Fun...
Here's a shout out to the men who called out Muhammad Ali throughout the years. Some you may have heard of, others you may need to research. In either case, here's a short list of those extraordinary men who were either brave or stupid enough to call out 'The Greatest'...
Lenny McLean, The Guv'nor
The premiere star of Britain's White Collar Circuit, Lenny McLean was known throughout the world, mainly for his bare knuckle bout with the Mafia's number one bouncer John McCormick. Celebrities ranging from Gene Hackman to Mickey Rourke were present when McLean kayoed McCormick, and even prompted Sylvester Stallone to say that 'The Guv'nor' was the real Rocky.
However, McLean's sights were set on more than facing local tough guys and license expired boxers, though his criminal status would never allow him to box professionally. His cousin was promoter allegedly, and he had the name, following and connections, however, to make it as a pro.
It was during Ali's many tours of England that McLean called out Muhammad Ali, and the support was great. It wasn't the first time McLean had attempted to face off with well known boxers, as he was scheduled to meet Paul Sykes, though that fight would never take place.
Ali, having no interest in getting involved with the White Collar Circuit and many underworld types associated with it, never took McLean's challenge up. It must be noted that McLean bested Roy Shaw two out of three, the same Roy Shaw who defeated heavyweight contender Ron Stander who fught Joe Frazier for the heavyweight title.
McLean's chances, though, would have been slim. He was kayoed in one round to both Cliff Fields and Johnny Waldron*, as well as Kevin Paddock. All three of those men were former professionals who either suffered injury that ended their careers effectively or who had trouble with the law that prevented them from ever fighting in a pro ring again. They were not world class, and Ali was.
McLean would have lost easily.
*Johnny Waldron would continue into the 1990's on the White Collar Circuit, where he accomplished his greatest feat, by knocking out Julius Francis in the first round in his 40's---Francis would become the British Heavyweight champion a few months later!
Wilt Chamberlain
The NBA star was considered the greatest basketball player of all time. He once scored 100 points in a single game, and once went an entire season without a foul. Standing more then 7'1" and weighing 280 pounds, Chamberlain was fed up with his contract and hinted at the notion of going into boxing.
Negotiations for a fight with Floyd Patterson were discussed, but when the possibility of an Ali match could be winnable, Chamberlain wanted in. He was told that if he was trained solely for Ali for over a year, to be conditioned 15 rounds, that with his height and reach he could keep Ali at bay and possibly win the title.
The two men met on ABC's Wide World of Sports and traded trash talk. Chamberlain insisted he was still interested in fighting Ali, but evidentially sense came to him, and he dropped the notion of fighting Muhammad Ali.
Ali said it best when asked his prediction on a fight with Chamberlain:
'Timberrrrrrrrrrr!'
Teofilio Stevenson
The two time Olympic gold medalist was offered a million dollars in 1978 if he would fight Muhammad Ali. The deal was broke into two scenarios, either Stevenson would fight Ali over 15 rounds, or the two men would fight a series of four round bouts. The man who won the most rounds in that series would claim victory.
As perposterous as it all sounded, there was much hype and build up about the Cuban turning professional. Stevenson, a loyal Communist, refused to go against his country's policies, and declined the million dollars and title shot at Ali.
Ali, in retrospect, gave Stevenson much due credit, saying had the two men ever fought that it probably would have ended in a draw. It was the closest he ever said in his entire professional career that another boxer was on par with him.
- prolific also means.
