BoxRec

Stumbled across an article that was posted a few years back over at TheSweetScience.com regarding the Jacobs/Cayton/Lott film collection which was sold to ESPN Classic for an alleged 100 Million dollars according to the article written by Frank Lotierzo.

ESPN Classic: Nothing But The Same Old Same Old

Very interesting read if you have time I recommend taking a look at it.

Larry writes:
"I've tried calling ESPN and complaining about seeing the same fights over and over. They have responded in one of two ways, depending on who you get when you call. The first lie I've been told is that they will be showing some fights never seen before later this year or early next year. The second lie I've been told is that they are giving the public what they want to see. Another words, according to ESPN Classic Boxing, all the fans want to see are Ali and Tyson. Somehow I don't belive this."

I know many of you if not all of you are like me and would love to see this classic footage. I have read that ESPN was working on restoring the never seen before Dick Tiger vs Frankie De Paula fight which was awarded 1968's fight of the year. My uncle Larry who just passed this July almost fell out of the seat when I told him this bit of news back last February too bad he never got to see it.

There are other fights as well that the public would like to see or at least hear if there is even footage existing on it. I remember my holy grail fight to acquire was Joey Archer vs Hurricane Carter I use to dream of finding that one. I offered one collector $1,000 for it if they could find it. I know that 1k is sort of chump change compared to some of the money that has been offered for film in the past but to me it was close to a pay check. I recently found out that the network that did the weekly fights opted to air a Ms. America spinoff that night entitled "women of the world" The only material I could salvage for myself to satisfy my desire to see the fight somewhat were a few pictures and printout's from microfilm of every New York Newspaper that was covering the fight.

Why ESPN? Why are you sitting on this goldmine of fights torturing and tormenting us? lol

I guess the reason they don't want to show them is to not de-value the collection by putting them on network television to be recorded. I don't really get why seeing as they are just sitting on the fights but if they want to re-sell them almost all of the good stuff is unseen by the public.

Or perhaps the collection was pillfered by one or more crooked collectors after Jim Jacobs or Bill Cayton passed away.
Originally the fights were sold to Classic Sports Network then to ESPN.
I think ive seen more variety of fights when they were on Classic Sports Network

Someone here some time ago said that someone had the apparently only known copy of Jerry Quarry vrs Buster Mathis.
Peer Mangement hired Jim Jacobs to film all of Mathis fights starting back around when he turned pro.
t least according to an article about Buster Mathis in an old issue of SI.

It would be nice if there was an actual list of what fights they have in that collection?

I talked to Jimmy Jacobs for years while he was collecting the goldmine of fight films he did.

Cayton made a horrendous mistake when he put this goldmine in the hands of clueless ESPN.
Cayton unfortunately assumed ESPN would comprehend the value of the collection.

What a crime that Jacobs spent his life travelling the world and collecting them only to have them then put in the hands of the clueless who may well lose them again. And this time it would be forever.

Most of the rare older fights Jacobs told me he had in his collection have never been seen commercially.

jmc617 wrote:Stumbled across an article that was posted a few years back over at TheSweetScience.com regarding the Jacobs/Cayton/Lott film collection which was sold to ESPN Classic for an alleged 100 Million dollars according to the article written by Frank Lotierzo.

ESPN Classic: Nothing But The Same Old Same Old

Very interesting read if you have time I recommend taking a look at it.

Larry writes:
"I've tried calling ESPN and complaining about seeing the same fights over and over. They have responded in one of two ways, depending on who you get when you call. The first lie I've been told is that they will be showing some fights never seen before later this year or early next year. The second lie I've been told is that they are giving the public what they want to see. Another words, according to ESPN Classic Boxing, all the fans want to see are Ali and Tyson. Somehow I don't belive this."

I know many of you if not all of you are like me and would love to see this classic footage. I have read that ESPN was working on restoring the never seen before Dick Tiger vs Frankie De Paula fight which was awarded 1968's fight of the year. My uncle Larry who just passed this July almost fell out of the seat when I told him this bit of news back last February too bad he never got to see it.

There are other fights as well that the public would like to see or at least hear if there is even footage existing on it. I remember my holy grail fight to acquire was Joey Archer vs Hurricane Carter I use to dream of finding that one. I offered one collector $1,000 for it if they could find it. I know that 1k is sort of chump change compared to some of the money that has been offered for film in the past but to me it was close to a pay check. I recently found out that the network that did the weekly fights opted to air a Ms. America spinoff that night entitled "women of the world" The only material I could salvage for myself to satisfy my desire to see the fight somewhat were a few pictures and printout's from microfilm of every New York Newspaper that was covering the fight.

Why ESPN? Why are you sitting on this goldmine of fights torturing and tormenting us? lol

Yeah, Ive often wondered why Espn wont show some of the great fights from Jacobs collection.
Unfortunately it seems they are hell bent,or at least were hell bent on showing Tyson knock out David Jaco or Steve Zouski a couple times a month.
Ridiculous really.
Its up the older fans to keep interest in the classic fights alive as nowadays the immediate gratification generation isnt interested.

A few years ago, ESPN were showing a lot of old fights. McClarnin-Canzoneri was probably the best really old one. Other interesting fights like Schmeling-Walker, Louis-Buddy Baer,Basilio-DeMarco, Robinson-Basilio,Basilio-Fullmer, Fullmer-Robinson, were broadcast.

Then it just stopped. Hard to say why. It's too bad.

I would have loved to have seen a little of Schmeling-Walker. Walker's got to be one of the most incredible ring figures, partly for his weight-defying antics.

A few years back ESPN Classic had a series 'Big Fights' with Al Bernstein that was pretty good and showed good HL clips of many great old fights, particularly some classics from the 1930s and 40s. However, that has stopped. While I have enjoyed them playing fights from the Showtime vaults on Tuesdays, I think overall they will be showing very few fights pre-1970s from now-on as their demographic gets younger and the number of hardcore fans such as ourselves simply isn't enough to get them to show the fights . . .that said, I would think enough people would tune in to watch stuff like Quarry-Mathis as opposed to a lot of the crap ESPN Classic shows for hours on end, like the 1998 Poker championships . . who the hell watches that garbage??

dempseyfire wrote:A few years back ESPN Classic had a series 'Big Fights' with Al Bernstein that was pretty good and showed good HL clips of many great old fights, particularly some classics from the 1930s and 40s. However, that has stopped. While I have enjoyed them playing fights from the Showtime vaults on Tuesdays, I think overall they will be showing very few fights pre-1970s from now-on as their demographic gets younger and the number of hardcore fans such as ourselves simply isn't enough to get them to show the fights . . .that said, I would think enough people would tune in to watch stuff like Quarry-Mathis as opposed to a lot of the crap ESPN Classic shows for hours on end, like the 1998 Poker championships . . who the hell watches that garbage??

I don't get HBO here (Free-To-Air Australian TV), but I have some of the Bernstein-presented Big Fights series on DVD...enjoyable viewing

ESPN could release them on DVD and a lot of people the world over would pay
good $ to have copies of them.

I recall reading some where, perhaps here that ESPN wont show anything that
has inferior sound or picture quality as many of the fights would have. BUT...
if they showed these ones and added a disclaimer or something most sports fans
would not mind.

I know plenty of bogans that are happy to watch old timers fight if its on the TV.
The trouble is they think Ali is the only old timer that ever fought...because that
is all they know !

My theory is that ESPN is waiting until there's some sort of internet streaming technology that they can make decent money from. Some sort of subscription based service or pay per stream sort of thing with copy protection. Then they'll let out their rare fights and other sporting events.

This is merely speculation...

My 2 cents. I tuned in one night & saw Nate Miller vs Orlin Norris. When the actual crowd is booing then the fight should not be on Classic!! I gave up on ESPN & watch fights on YouTube.

Ray mercer vs Dino Homsey??????? Please.

I think ESPN bought the rights to previosly seen Showtime fights and so they have to show them somewhere.
Some of the fights were so boring to watch ,I remember channel surfing when they were live on showtime during rounds!

Can you just picture a young Tyson watching so many fights in the attic of Cus D'Amato's house! What a luxury that must have been - to be sble to watch so many figthers, so many different styles, etc, etc.

Anyone care to guess what the collection is worth currently?

Attention to all:

Can ESPN at the very least lend their films to the boxing hall of fame or public libraries where private viewing's can bee seen?

In such a setting, they can preserve the value of their collection with little fear of the film being placed on you tube,

I'd fly in to see Greb vs Walker.

even in the 80's there were absolutely great fights on saturday and sundays. not sure if thats part of the collection.
there is no need to replay last year's espn2 fights. and it is very much time to shelve ray robinson, ali, and tyson for a while.

turn2stone wrote:even in the 80's there were absolutely great fights on saturday and sundays. not sure if thats part of the collection.
there is no need to replay last year's espn2 fights. and it is very much time to shelve ray robinson, ali, and tyson for a while.

I wish NBC and CBS would put out a collection of those weekly shows from the early 80's

I have been reading these posts with great interest. There has been a great interest lately of boxing fans wanting to see the fight of my father, Charles Norkus, against Danny Nardico that went off in Jan 1954. Using Ted Sares words "a real pier six brawl" 9 knockdowns.

The fight was not held on live TV in 1954. Rather, as my father stated,a TV production company were in Miami that week to set up cameras for the upcoming LT heavy Title fight with Archie Moore vs Joey Maxim at the Orange Bowl. They asked the Miami Beach Aud. owners along with Chris Dundee if they can film the Norkus/Nardico slate for a few rounds to test the lighting and lens positioning for the Moore fight. It was never meant to be recorded in its entirety. No announcers were present that evening either.

As the fight progressed, the production director saw what he thought was a epic battle ensuing before his eyes. He was right. He ordered more tape be brought in to capture the entire fight. When it was over- the fight results were quickly reported up to New York. Miami reporters wrote about the explosiveness of this fight. The tapes were quickly made into a film reel and overdubbed by announcers. A short hi-lite (7 mins) exist as well as the entire fight exist with no sound. You can see the lighting changes as the fight went on as camera techs adjusted their lenses. Later in 1954, the film was released to be seen. They were in the Jacobs/Cayton collection, that ESPN owns.
In 1971 or so, Jim Jacobs supplied a 16mm copy of both to my father as a friend, and we watched at home on a projector. In 1988 my father cut a deal with a film collector in Chicago to restore the films and supply my family with VHS films, the collector keeps the 16mm.
Since then the fight Norkus/Nardico 1 as well as the national TV rematch 2 months later exists as DVDs on the underground market. I contacted ESPN a few years back to try to obtain copies and try to buy rights to my fathers various fights. Through Bill Cayton Jr, Disney/ESPN refused at that time but acknowledged they do still have them on hand.

A anonymous boxing fan will be trying in the future to post the Norkus/Nardico I hilite film to you tube for those who are interested.

CNorkusJr wrote:I have been reading these posts with great interest. There has been a great interest lately of boxing fans wanting to see the fight of my father, Charles Norkus, against Danny Nardico that went off in Jan 1954. Using Ted Sares words "a real pier six brawl" 9 knockdowns.

The fight was not held on live TV in 1954. Rather, as my father stated,a TV production company were in Miami that week to set up cameras for the upcoming LT heavy Title fight with Archie Moore vs Joey Maxim at the Orange Bowl. They asked the Miami Beach Aud. owners along with Chris Dundee if they can film the Norkus/Nardico slate for a few rounds to test the lighting and lens positioning for the Moore fight. It was never meant to be recorded in its entirety. No announcers were present that evening either.

As the fight progressed, the production director saw what he thought was a epic battle ensuing before his eyes. He was right. He ordered more tape be brought in to capture the entire fight. When it was over- the fight results were quickly reported up to New York. Miami reporters wrote about the explosiveness of this fight. The tapes were quickly made into a film reel and overdubbed by announcers. A short hi-lite (7 mins) exist as well as the entire fight exist with no sound. You can see the lighting changes as the fight went on as camera techs adjusted their lenses. Later in 1954, the film was released to be seen. They were in the Jacobs/Cayton collection, that ESPN owns.
In 1971 or so, Jim Jacobs supplied a 16mm copy of both to my father as a friend, and we watched at home on a projector. In 1988 my father cut a deal with a film collector in Chicago to restore the films and supply my family with VHS films, the collector keeps the 16mm.
Since then the fight Norkus/Nardico 1 as well as the national TV rematch 3 months later exists as DVDs on the underground market. I contacted ESPN a few years back to try to obtain copies and try to by rights to my fathers various fights. Through Bill Cayton Jr, Disney/ESPN refused at that time but acknowledged they do still have them on hand.

A anonymous boxing fan will be trying in the future to post the Norkus/Nardico I hilite film to you tube for those who are interested.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I would have loved to have seen a little of Schmeling-Walker. Walker's got to be one of the most incredible ring figures, partly for his weight-defying antics.

That fight is out there. I own it. I also own Schemling vs. Uzcudun ( about 5 rounds ) and its a much better effort.