BoxRec

Interesting to read Maloney’s take on 2009 in the News of the World yesterday. Unsurprisingly Frank is glad to see the back of 2009 after the Sutherland shock, a heart attack during the Fury Mcdermott fight, his heart stopping whilst on the operating table for 30 seconds following being admitted to hospital, Jason Rushton suffering a brain injury on one of Franks shows and the Moore Rhodes fight coming within a whisker of bankrupting Frank (or I’d guess his promotional company).

Granted, the Sutherland tragedy (and claim the family refused a benefit night from Frank), Franks heart attack and subsequent “death” on the operating table both make the (almost) bankrupt story pale into insignificance, but it’s this that interested me from the article, and probably warrants a discussion on here.

Moore Rhodes was on this forum, and many others like it, one of the most anticipated domestic fights of 2009. Following the hype on the forums, and throughout boxing circles, the bout was arranged for the Bolton Arena, as it was deemed too big for a leisure centre spot. Frank stacked the card with 4 title fights, and another 5 fights to entice the boxing fraternity aswel as the general public. Seemingly the boxing fraternity (that’s us) and the general public didn’t respond with their wallets, I’d guess some of us got press tickets, a few of us went, and the rest sat down with a beer and watched it on sky sports (or the tinterweb). Subsequently Maloney nearly went bankrupt, and to make his evening worse his promoted fighter went from perspective world title challenger, to rebuilding at British level*.

Now, here’s the thing. Outside of “the anoraks”, as we’ve previously been referred to, very few people are aware of the headliners that night, Jamie Moore & Ryan Rhodes. Even less so would be aware of Napia and Davies, and even I’m at a loss with Shinny Bahir and Chris Edwards (no offence lads). So what the hell is wrong with the sport when one of the most eagerly anticipated domestic showdowns of the year results in the promotional company nearly going bankrupt?

Are fights overpriced – quite probably / possibly? A ringside seat for Moore Rhodes was, I believe, around £175-£200 (someone correct me on that as my memory isn’t all it was). Moore Piccirillo was around £85 – that’s more than a seat at Stamford Bridge. Every other promotional outfit are charging similar prices to ensure the figures match expenditure, this isn’t a post to berate any single outfit, but £350+ for two seats. That’s a lot of money.

Is the sport so fragmented that people have lost interest – maybe, although the British scene hardly has a fragmented title, and interest here has seemingly gone. Jamie Moore is without doubt the most exciting British level fighter we’ve had in the past ten years, yet no man on the street would know him from Jamie Lee Curtis. Why?

Could it be the sport is poorly promoted both internally and externally? Internally being promotional outfits refusing to work together (Thaxton/Murray Khan etc…), and externally being the lack of any newspaper having a good, concise, weekly boxing round up. Sure, we see allegedly having an article in one paper and Mcguigan used to have one. But they’re not free thinking articles, they’re marketing tools for the promotional outfit of choice, and a good opportunity to bash other boxers with a rolled up paper on the nose whilst saying “bad boy, you don’t pee on my carpet then leave the house”. And with this point were moving into vicious circle territory. Why should a paper provide articles when no bugger goes to boxing or cares anyway?

Lads (and the odd lady), seriously, what the hell is going to become of our sport because without some form of overhaul its going to get worse. Is there scope for a Darts type overhaul of some sort? Could the BBBOC do something? Or are we resigned to being a minority sport with magazines that receive lower readership than Fishing Weekly, and viewing figures Scunthorpe would be ashamed of?



*Jason Rushston also suffered a brain injury on the card. I hear Jason is recovering well – best wishes to him and his family.

what was the gate for moore - rhodes then?? didn't look great on telly

according to maloney in BM it was 2,200 in a 3,500 capacity venue.

i must take you up on the Boxing Mags selling less than Fishing Weekly. I've heard fishing is the most popular "participant" sport (well, past-time) in the UK. Or certainly up there (I can't see the odd bloke sat on the river bank with his flask on a Sunday morning outnumbering the Sunday League footballers.

As regards your post...I wouldn't have paid anywhere near that to sit Ringside for Rhodes Moore. That's bad marketing, if indeed they were the actual ringside prices (imo).

As regards Boxing's popularity (or struggle for it)...Boxing basically is a minority sport. The general public only get interested when big names, or big personalities are involved. Most blokes aren't interested your typical Friday Night Fights on Sky and probably couldn't name a single fighter. It's just the way it is and the way it will continue.

Personally I can live with this. It doesn't stop me from following the sport does it. The only way to make Boxing more popular again is to get it on terrestrial TV and get some good lads having good matches with each other. But it's very doubtful that it will happen.

Amir Khan got something like 15 million viewers in the Olympics and he was unheard of by everybody in the country bar those that knew him. So that kind of supports my point. Do I wish it was different - yes.

Perhaps UK boxing websites are not enough to generate the interest, in what was a highly anticipated fight that delivered too. Typically everyone who goes online is a fan anyway and needs know telling that the fight is made.

Apart from the odd advert on Sky plus forums discussions on boxrec, saddo, livefight, boxing banter etc - there is only the boxing press to assist.

The main problem is that The Sun and The Daily Mirror don't get behind boxing more.

You'd be surprised how many working class 'white van man' types sit and read a rag, word for word in a lunch hour, in particular the sport section. Then they will pass it their colleagues to read. These people can probably tell you what the latest AC Milan striker's girlfriend looks like, but wouldn't know a British champion if they came up and whacked them.

I only ever see the odd piece in the papers and usually it's Warren's fighters in the NOTW prior or after a PPV.

Perhaps we need to drape boxers in topless ladies and put them in The Sport ?

i was doing my bit by shelling out to see Rhodes - Moore.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
As regards Boxing's popularity (or struggle for it)...Boxing basically is a minority sport. The general public only get interested when big names, or big personalities are involved. Most blokes aren't interested your typical Friday Night Fights on Sky and probably couldn't name a single fighter. It's just the way it is and the way it will continue.

Personally I can live with this. It doesn't stop me from following the sport does it. The only way to make Boxing more popular again is to get it on terrestrial TV and get some good lads having good matches with each other. But it's very doubtful that it will happen.

Amir Khan got something like 15 million viewers in the Olympics and he was unheard of by everybody in the country bar those that knew him. So that kind of supports my point. Do I wish it was different - yes.

This is how it is and the way it will continue. - Surely thats what people at the PDC said.
How on earth will the UFC, a cage fighting tournament get big accross the globe, it'll never happen - UFC circa.. .errm.. well pre Dana White

So it wont happen, but by your own admittance the answer to move a competitive combat sport forward is to make fights that are competitive! See this is the problem, too many people happy for things as they are, as they ironically used to say on Soccer Am before it changed for the worse - "change is NOT good".

Doesnt what you say about Khan in the Olympics support my point. When marketed or pushed properly the british public are intrigued by boxing? 15 million (??) viewers watching a virtual unknown because newspapers got behind him.

G0mez wrote:Perhaps UK boxing websites are not enough to generate the interest, in what was a highly anticipated fight that delivered too. Typically everyone who goes online is a fan anyway and needs know telling that the fight is made.

Apart from the odd advert on Sky plus forums discussions on boxrec, saddo, livefight, boxing banter etc - there is only the boxing press to assist.

The main problem is that The Sun and The Daily Mirror don't get behind boxing more.

You'd be surprised how many working class 'white van man' types sit and read a rag, word for word in a lunch hour, in particular the sport section. Then they will pass it their colleagues to read. These people can probably tell you what the latest AC Milan striker's girlfriend looks like, but wouldn't know a British champion if they came up and whacked them.

I only ever see the odd piece in the papers and usually it's Warren's fighters in the NOTW prior or after a PPV.

Perhaps we need to drape boxers in topless ladies and put them in The Sport ?

You make some good points there.

Another problem is I know a fella who used to be a big boxing fan but nowadays he doesn't even bother and I asked him why, he replied "Nobody knows who the champions are anymore with all these WBC/WBO/WBF/IBF/IBO belts, it's confusing enough for the hardcore boxing fans so the casuals have no chance"

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
As regards your post...I wouldn't have paid anywhere near that to sit Ringside for Rhodes Moore. That's bad marketing, if indeed they were the actual ringside prices (imo).

Apologies, they were £125.

It was Haye Barrett that we're £175 for one section behind ringside in nov 2008.

Boxing has lost the newspapers, there is hardly any coverage and it certainly does not make the back page anymore, Moore v Rhodes a few years ago would have got a page at least, in The Times it was a paragraph.

boxing is too fractionalised for it's own good, so when you lose the support of newpapers the average joe just isn't going to know anything about a decent domestic match up.

I think it's the telegraph online that have Boxing & MMA combined under one tab.

i paid for a balcony seat and ended up sat virtually ringside

An interesting topic.

Boxing forums are not the dipstick for the significance of a bout. Though there are plenty frequenting them.

Surely, the real trick is to mobilise local audiences as the SKY money will be largely constant, the bums on seats ratio is key isn't it?

The trouble is, the audience that makes events larger scale is not the boxing hardcore, and therefore need a hook to follow an individual fighter and while we cherish the winnable/loseable fights like Moore v Rhodes (as boxing anoracks) they make planning a fighter's career preciously hard to do, and a multiple loss fighter needs a different type of promotion to a protected zero loss fighter, i.e. Prizefighter.

British boxing superstars of late have been bandwagons. People clamber on to follow a journey, a goal, a horizon. They do not climb on a roller-coaster. They don't want to pay £50-150 to see their guy lose. They want pulsating victories.

Hatton was the definitive career in this regard.

Many will argue the contrary, but the reason Haye v Valuev had crossover appeal was the Goliath hook, the under-dog status and Haye's projected attempt to do the impossible. Valuev's easy defeat to the soft, but similarly proportioned Chagaev (which lost Valuev the belt lest we forget) was glossed over.

I do sometimes wonder whether a larger event with tickets at £10-£50 would create more turnover than smaller arenas with £150 ringside seats.

But then, to revert to marketing pyschology, is it an event worth attending if tis only a tenner to get in?

diggler wrote:i paid for a balcony seat and ended up sat virtually ringside

They were offering 2-1 on the tickets we got a couple of days before the fight. Despite contacting Hayemaker, and the O2 we got nothing back, and nothing in response beyonf "tuff". I know Im only one person, but it's put me off going to a Hayemaker promoted show again, and if I did I'd without doubt be buying a ticket on the day.

Interesting thread

It possibly explains why we don't often get 4 title fights on 1 card

Terry D wrote:I thought that the Moore fight had drawn a decent crowd. Then again that was a naked eye type of guestimate. Why was Frank M in the NOTW? Does he have a column in that paper?

it was the same article that was in boxing monthly

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/6 ... BILIS.html

Not greatest title, especially as if there was a type (or a work experience guy working there) it could've said "maloney reveals his horrible anus"

So Maloney has a show which nearly bankrupts him, and 1 month later he's talking about Rendall Munroe fighting Bernard Dunne(a fight that could potentially lose him even more money if it were to come off).

Hmm.....

I do feel sorry for Frank as regards the whole Sutherland incident and his heart problems.

How would Dunne Munroe lose him Money?

Also, anyone know what the comment "Maloney unfairly came in for criticism from Sutherland's family, who even blocked a tribute show the promoter wanted to stage" is all about?

Terry D wrote:Murray versus Mitchell will never happen in my humble opinion.

And on that bombshell, I'm off for Chrimbo. Always think there is something a bit gay/sinister about posting when at home, so I try not to (apologies to the 99% of people that do post from home, I'm not saying that you are gay, or that gays are sinister...apart from Christian from Eastenders, he is very sinister, wouldn't let him near my kids, if I had any...however, I digress). So I'll only post from home during emergency times, IE if someone is criticising Lennox Lewis, and as a result (I am getting to the point, I assure you) I won't be able to say Happy Chuffing Christmas on the day itself. May you get a full sack, unleash that sack on Christmas day and then settle in a post-sack relieving stupor on the bed, or couch, depending on how adventurous you are, or if you've got kids, or a dog, or flimsy curtains.

I am off to kick off my camp Christmas with the film Victim which has a serious message.

Peace.

Have a good one Tel
Peace

Wales wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
As regards Boxing's popularity (or struggle for it)...Boxing basically is a minority sport. The general public only get interested when big names, or big personalities are involved. Most blokes aren't interested your typical Friday Night Fights on Sky and probably couldn't name a single fighter. It's just the way it is and the way it will continue.

Personally I can live with this. It doesn't stop me from following the sport does it. The only way to make Boxing more popular again is to get it on terrestrial TV and get some good lads having good matches with each other. But it's very doubtful that it will happen.

Amir Khan got something like 15 million viewers in the Olympics and he was unheard of by everybody in the country bar those that knew him. So that kind of supports my point. Do I wish it was different - yes.

Doesnt what you say about Khan in the Olympics support my point. When marketed or pushed properly the british public are intrigued by boxing? 15 million (??) viewers watching a virtual unknown because newspapers got behind him.

possibly. But don't forget that The Olympic competition itself, and ANY British involvement is bound to get big figures - the fact it was Boxing is probably just by the by. Obviously the fact the lad flew the flag single handedly in that sport for us and got a Silver was a huge boost, in an otherwise pretty poor games for GB.

Wales wrote:How would Dunne Munroe lose him Money?

Maloney I assume would be trying to get the fight in the UK and it would take a 6 figure sum(I'd say we'd be talking £150,000-£250,000) just to get Dunne over. Munroe can only draw enough to fill small leisure centres, so Maloney would presumely have to get a much bigger venue to cover the cost and gamble that Irish people traveling over or expatriates would fill up the venue.

If the Irish crowd don't turn up(and with the current economic climate there's no guarantee they would), the cost of the show could potentially lose Maloney a lot of money.

BigEars wrote:So Maloney has a show which nearly bankrupts him, and 1 month later he's talking about Rendall Munroe fighting Bernard Dunne(a fight that could potentially lose him even more money if it were to come off).

Hmm.....

I do feel sorry for Frank as regards the whole Sutherland incident and his heart problems.

a dunne fight would certainly raise the profile of munroe. munroe - an underrated fighter who came up without hype, and achieved a lot in his short career thus far - must be foaming at the mouth to tear the vulnerable irishman apart. but surely it wuld do good business in ireland, in a bigger arena, that dunne could fill up. that said, i don't like the way dunne fell apart v poonsawat, and have to wonder whetehr he'll ever fight at 122 again, if at any weight.

i hope next year is better for Maloney he is 1 of the nice guys in boxing

i think it is all about prices, we are in a credit crunch cheapest ticket £40 up to £125, there i think your answer lies. if the tickets were £20 for example for this moore rhodes i do not think you would have had a 1000 plus seats empty.

i think tickets to watch boxing should start off at about £20/£25 to go and watch boxing. I use to go to loads of fights all over the uk but now the ticket prices are to much £40 for me is a lot of money, with travel,hotel, food and drink.

last time i went to a maloney show at york hall, the security just kept pushing people about, if anyone has been to york hall you know you can stand at the back by the stage but these blokes were like nightclub security just pushing people out the way, i moved round to the side and was followed by one of these dicks he kept telling me sit down and i said when the round finishs i will, people are watching the fight. In the end just f**ked off home and have not gone to a maloney show since, went to the york hall a week later no problem stood at the back all night no problems, and have done ever since.

rant over

happy christmas

I think the past has come back to haunt boxing.

For too long bills were filled with non competitive bouts .. and sadly they still are.

There was a time when you went to a show to watch an evening of competitive fighting. Nowadays you`d be lucky if one of the fights is evenly matched .. wheres the fun in watching what you know is a record filler fight?

Sure the promoter will say he has to build a fighter up. But why waste evrybodies time in giving the kid somebody who they will be expected to blow away in a round or two to make it look good on his record. Surely the `prospects` fans would rather see their guy in a competitive fight where the opponent doesn`t lie down the first time they get hit.