BoxRec

Who were they? And was their any indication at all during preperation that Ali was in any way out of his element?

I'm sure we can get that list going from folks who know. But even if you were the sparring partner or witnessing it, who could have possibly told the emperor he had no clothes? Impossible task at the time I'm sure.

One was Tim Witherspoon who looked like he weighed 190 pounds.

BoxBuzz wrote:I'm sure we can get that list going from folks who know. But even if you were the sparring partner or witnessing it, who could have possibly told the emperor he had no clothes? Impossible task at the time I'm sure.

What's amazing to me is how Ali managed to work himself down to around 215 pounds for the Holmes fight. He looked almost like he did the night he fought Liston back in 1964; unfortunately all he still had was the look, not the talent, the speed, the reflexes, it was all gone.

Dundee claims the thyroid pills had quite a bit to do with that, but no pill replaces hard toiling in the gym. Ali obviously worked for it, especially given his advanced age at the time. He looked no softer against Holmes than he had against Foreman, a very significant six years previous.

If you watch him come into the ring in the Shavers fight he almost had the look of a ghost to me anyway.

ESPN did a documentary on the Ali/Holmes fight. Cant find nothing more than a few short clips of it on YouTube though. Anyone know where a full link is?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Dundee claims the thyroid pills had quite a bit to do with that, but no pill replaces hard toiling in the gym. Ali obviously worked for it, especially given his advanced age at the time. He looked no softer against Holmes than he had against Foreman, a very significant six years previous.

WHOA! I read somewhere that Karen Carpenter used thyroid pills during her bout with anorexia. I am not sure if such medication for the thyroid back then were as safe (or controlled) as they are now, but back then they could be used to increase metabolism. So, weight loss with thyroid pills in the early 80's could have been caused without the typical training he was used to.

Does Ali have Hypothyroidism?

zojo, wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Dundee claims the thyroid pills had quite a bit to do with that, but no pill replaces hard toiling in the gym. Ali obviously worked for it, especially given his advanced age at the time. He looked no softer against Holmes than he had against Foreman, a very significant six years previous.

WHOA! I read somewhere that Karen Carpenter used thyroid pills during her bout with anorexia. I am not sure if such medication for the thyroid back then were as safe (or controlled) as they are now, but back then they could be used to increase metabolism. So, weight loss with thyroid pills in the early 80's could have been caused without the typical training he was used to.

Does Ali have Hypothyroidism?

Was a misdiagnosis supposedly. Ali wasnt on thyroid medication for the Berbick bout, and looked much better in the ring than he did against Holmes.

Berbick wasn't half the opponent Holmes was, though.

Yeah but Larry carried Ali those ten rounds, it was practically done with kid gloves 98% of the time. I'm sure as hell, if Holmes came in there with a killer instinct from the start the fight would have been over with inside five rounds. Thats how bad Ali was that night. Larry just didnt want to hurt his idol any more than he had to.

HomicideHenry wrote:Yeah but Larry carried Ali those ten rounds, it was practically done with kid gloves 98% of the time. I'm sure as hell, if Holmes came in there with a killer instinct from the start the fight would have been over with inside five rounds. Thats how bad Ali was that night. Larry just didnt want to hurt his idol any more than he had to.

I've occasionally thought about this scenario --- Foreman & Holmes, despite their primes (& debuts) being years apart, were actually the same age. What if, by a quirk of fate, Holmes had had the early start, & taken the crown before falling from grace against the Ali of '74, & Foreman had been the one to start late & finish strong? That would mean a peaking Foreman, not Holmes, would've faced off with the 1980 version of Ali, & likely without the sentiment Holmes had for his man.

How bad do you suppose it might have been? Would you seriously worry for Ali in such a fight? I mean, really worry?

I would. Ali would have no defense against Foreman in that scenario.

HomicideHenry wrote:I would. Ali would have no defense against Foreman in that scenario.

Well, it's obvious Ali wouldn't prevail, but, with all the taunting & shouting he was sure to throw Foreman's way, how serious do you think this fight could've gone down? Would you consider it a potential Drago-Creed scenario, or just a case of Ali's present condition being hastened as Foreman does what no other man did --- lays him out (ala Tyson-Holmes, though probably worse & more graphic)?

The way I look at it is this....had the Tate/Weaver bouts come off instead of the Holmes fight, its in my honest opinion, those two strongmen would have chased the kayo against Ali and probably would have butchered him worse than what Holmes did since they would be looking to make names for themselves, they had no real emotional/personal history with Ali like Holmes did.

If Weaver and Tate, least in my mind, would hurt Ali bad, then imagine what Foreman could have done. Foreman would have wasted no time, and I dont believe Ali would have made it passed two whole rounds---he simply wouldnt have been able to take the shots like he did in Zaire, he would have just been a walking, talking, human punching bag that Foreman would have devoured.