BoxRec

Driffield light-welterweight Curtis Woodhouse takes on 'Isle of Wight Assassin' Jay Morris at Rotherham's Magna Centre on Sunday Feb 28th, looking to avenge his only career defeat to date. The vacant International Masters title up for grabs.

I like Woodhouse - is regularly in good scraps and seems a nice fella too, very enthusiastic.

But when is he going to step up the opposition? I'm not keen on sportsmen who played at a good level in other sports, then take up boxing and take forever and a day to get serious with their matchmaking.

its good to see woodhouse trying to avenge his loss

THEBUTCH wrote:But when is he going to step up the opposition? I'm not keen on sportsmen who played at a good level in other sports, then take up boxing and take forever and a day to get serious with their matchmaking.

Understand what you're saying, but he didn't have any amateurs. So its been steady as he learns. The tv situation held things up a little but he came back with a decent win last time out and we're looking to reverse the defeat then push on towards English title level.
I think for his level of experience etc, that is realistic and decent progression for this year.
Don't forget he hasn't ever professed to being a superstar in the making, his dream is to fight for the british. 2010 will see that step up you're looking for, but step up in relation to HIS level, not a 'can't miss' prospects level if you get me.

Butch,
Can you give me another example, other than Curtis ?
I can't think of anyone else to compare him to.
Your post implies that this is regular thing.
At the end of the day I think it's a bit poor to have a go when the kid is prepared to face the kid in a rematch who was responsible for his only defeat.
He does not have a Promotor at the moment, therefore does not benefit from TV money, and generates income from ticket sales.
I think that is to be applauded, not scorned upon, and let's not forget giving Dave credit for putting the show on.

Jay Morris is the only pro we have on the Isle of Wight , i hope he does the double over Woodhouse.

He'd been on a bad run until upsetting Woodhouse, with a deserved victory.

'Isle of Wight Assassin' to do the double

THEBUTCH wrote:But when is he going to step up the opposition? I'm not keen on sportsmen who played at a good level in other sports, then take up boxing and take forever and a day to get serious with their matchmaking.

i cant see where you are coming from, curtis is a work in progress, hoping to reach top domestic level in a tough division. i think he is on target and i have been pleased with his progression so far. he is not some accoladed olympic star being fed a diet of latvian dustmen !!!! (not a dig at you frank !) ..... Maloney !!!!

twenty six wrote:Butch,
Can you give me another example, other than Curtis ?
I can't think of anyone else to compare him to.
Your post implies that this is regular thing.
At the end of the day I think it's a bit poor to have a go when the kid is prepared to face the kid in a rematch who was responsible for his only defeat.
He does not have a Promotor at the moment, therefore does not benefit from TV money, and generates income from ticket sales.
I think that is to be applauded, not scorned upon, and let's not forget giving Dave credit for putting the show on.

Couldn't agree more. Woodhouse has turned his back on the fortunes to be had in football and followed his heart instead. During his boxing career he's done things the hard way, shown humility throughout and is now trying to get revenge for his only defeat to date.
I have full respect for the man and hope he goes on to bigger and better things.

would have a lot more respect for him if he didnt blatantly duck karl chiverton , he gave it all the talk , saying he would knock chiverton out but then wouldnt agree terms for a fight , a fight that chiverton would have taken for free as he was so riled by woodhouse , of course i dont know what contract were on the table but i know that locally there was a lot of talk of this fight and chiverton was so focused on this fight that i think hes lost faith a bit since it didnt come off , i dont think hes fought now in just over a year , and the fight just made so much sense to make with chiverton being a mansfield lad and woodhouse was playing for mansfield at the time , it was planned for mansfield football clubs field mill stadium , both had a distinct dislike for each other and both had very similar records , it would have been a big fight in these parts for local bragging rights and the winner would certainly have benefited from local support in future making them bigger ticket sellers etc , but woodhouse ducked and fought jay morris , which we know what happened there , and then when woodhouse was due to fight a tba last time out again woodhouse said he wanted chiverton , chiverton said he was up for it but again it didnt happen , i know some of you guys probably wont be aware of all the hype this fight was getting but locally it was being treated like a world title fight , shame it didnt happen .

Off course Mundine had his father, so I am sure he knew somethings - but did he have any amateur pedigree?

Mundine = arsehole of a bloke, but a truly remarkable athlete. Not many double up to such a degree of sucesss.

I like Woodhouse, haven't seen his recent fights - looked like he was improving with each outing before. Has he completely packed in the football?

damianhucker1 wrote:would have a lot more respect for him if he didnt blatantly duck karl chiverton , he gave it all the talk , saying he would knock chiverton out but then wouldnt agree terms for a fight , a fight that chiverton would have taken for free as he was so riled by woodhouse , of course i dont know what contract were on the table but i know that locally there was a lot of talk of this fight and chiverton was so focused on this fight that i think hes lost faith a bit since it didnt come off , i dont think hes fought now in just over a year , and the fight just made so much sense to make with chiverton being a mansfield lad and woodhouse was playing for mansfield at the time , it was planned for mansfield football clubs field mill stadium , both had a distinct dislike for each other and both had very similar records , it would have been a big fight in these parts for local bragging rights and the winner would certainly have benefited from local support in future making them bigger ticket sellers etc , but woodhouse ducked and fought jay morris , which we know what happened there , and then when woodhouse was due to fight a tba last time out again woodhouse said he wanted chiverton , chiverton said he was up for it but again it didnt happen , i know some of you guys probably wont be aware of all the hype this fight was getting but locally it was being treated like a world title fight , shame it didnt happen .

Sorry, but i don't know who said the fight was offered, but i was never contacted by ANYONE regarding a fight with Karl.
In fact, Chiverton hasn't boxed since 2008 so why on earth would i make that match anyway? When Curtis told me about the banter that has gone on with him, i told him once Chiverton has actually had a fight, and has become active again, i'll make the match.
If you type his name in boxrec, he isn't in amongst the 'active' boxers on their records.
I've been told he HAS been matched a couple of times, but has not fought, so why would i build a show around a fight that at the moment, features a fighter that doesn't fight?

Curtis would love the fight, i haven't a problem making the fight, but only when Chiverton becomes an active professional boxer again, no malice towards the post at all, just stating facts.

[quote="THEBUTCH"]But when is he going to step up the opposition? I'm not keen on sportsmen who played at a good level in other sports, then take up boxing and take forever and a day to get serious with their matchmaking. [/quote]

curtis is going at a good pace as far as stepping up opposition.lets not forget he was a completely raw novice only a few years ago and he's not an old man and always been in good shape from football so he's fresh and in no rush.u gotta give him full credit for wanting the morris fight again as in his last fight(a good step up in dean hickman) he comfortably made light welter and with morris being a tough welter,most would have just put the first fight down to experience.seeing his debut i thought he was useless but with his willingness to learn,dedication and the incredible job dave coldwells doing with him i dont see any reason why he couldn't fight for and even win the british title at L-welter in the future.

d wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:would have a lot more respect for him if he didnt blatantly duck karl chiverton , he gave it all the talk , saying he would knock chiverton out but then wouldnt agree terms for a fight , a fight that chiverton would have taken for free as he was so riled by woodhouse , of course i dont know what contract were on the table but i know that locally there was a lot of talk of this fight and chiverton was so focused on this fight that i think hes lost faith a bit since it didnt come off , i dont think hes fought now in just over a year , and the fight just made so much sense to make with chiverton being a mansfield lad and woodhouse was playing for mansfield at the time , it was planned for mansfield football clubs field mill stadium , both had a distinct dislike for each other and both had very similar records , it would have been a big fight in these parts for local bragging rights and the winner would certainly have benefited from local support in future making them bigger ticket sellers etc , but woodhouse ducked and fought jay morris , which we know what happened there , and then when woodhouse was due to fight a tba last time out again woodhouse said he wanted chiverton , chiverton said he was up for it but again it didnt happen , i know some of you guys probably wont be aware of all the hype this fight was getting but locally it was being treated like a world title fight , shame it didnt happen .

Sorry, but i don't know who said the fight was offered, but i was never contacted by ANYONE regarding a fight with Karl.
In fact, Chiverton hasn't boxed since 2008 so why on earth would i make that match anyway? When Curtis told me about the banter that has gone on with him, i told him once Chiverton has actually had a fight, and has become active again, i'll make the match.
If you type his name in boxrec, he isn't in amongst the 'active' boxers on their records.
I've been told he HAS been matched a couple of times, but has not fought, so why would i build a show around a fight that at the moment, features a fighter that doesn't fight?

Curtis would love the fight, i haven't a problem making the fight, but only when Chiverton becomes an active professional boxer again, no malice towards the post at all, just stating facts.

that all sounds fair enough , but one thing i would say is that surely then from a matchmaking point of view , wouldnt it have made sense to get curtis this fight , due to chiverton being so inactive (which i agree is the case , when i last spoke to him he blamed it on work commitments) , surely an inactive fighter with a record of 10-1-1 , would look better on woodhouses record and also the attention surrounding the possible fight would have got curtis a bit of exposure that he could have capitalised (and yourself too id imagine) , dont get me wrong im not a freind as such of karls , i just know him through me promoting my white collar shows , like i said i dont know what the contracts would have said , or even like you say , if there even was any offer , but surely youd agree the fight would have made sense and would likely have been a nice little earner compared to putting him in with guys who , with no disrespect intended , hes expecting to beat . both guys thought they could win and both gave it "the big un " thats what made it intriguing , im talking as a boxing fan , and at the end of the day putting on what the fans want to see is surely the best way to make money , of course pick the right opponents , no one would expect different , but from your point of view surely in inactive fighter would be there for the taking to further enhance woodhouses rep , also on your other point , i dont personally know of any other fights that karl hasnt ended up not doing after agreeing during his time of inactivity , he was pulled from a show in mansfield in august vs alex spitko when he got in trouble on a night out and had some explaining to do to the board but thats all i know of .

dont think any of my post is at all a dig at you personally in any way , just stating that its a fight that i feel should really have happenned.

damianhucker1 wrote:

d wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:would have a lot more respect for him if he didnt blatantly duck karl chiverton , he gave it all the talk , saying he would knock chiverton out but then wouldnt agree terms for a fight , a fight that chiverton would have taken for free as he was so riled by woodhouse , of course i dont know what contract were on the table but i know that locally there was a lot of talk of this fight and chiverton was so focused on this fight that i think hes lost faith a bit since it didnt come off , i dont think hes fought now in just over a year , and the fight just made so much sense to make with chiverton being a mansfield lad and woodhouse was playing for mansfield at the time , it was planned for mansfield football clubs field mill stadium , both had a distinct dislike for each other and both had very similar records , it would have been a big fight in these parts for local bragging rights and the winner would certainly have benefited from local support in future making them bigger ticket sellers etc , but woodhouse ducked and fought jay morris , which we know what happened there , and then when woodhouse was due to fight a tba last time out again woodhouse said he wanted chiverton , chiverton said he was up for it but again it didnt happen , i know some of you guys probably wont be aware of all the hype this fight was getting but locally it was being treated like a world title fight , shame it didnt happen .

Sorry, but i don't know who said the fight was offered, but i was never contacted by ANYONE regarding a fight with Karl.
In fact, Chiverton hasn't boxed since 2008 so why on earth would i make that match anyway? When Curtis told me about the banter that has gone on with him, i told him once Chiverton has actually had a fight, and has become active again, i'll make the match.
If you type his name in boxrec, he isn't in amongst the 'active' boxers on their records.
I've been told he HAS been matched a couple of times, but has not fought, so why would i build a show around a fight that at the moment, features a fighter that doesn't fight?

Curtis would love the fight, i haven't a problem making the fight, but only when Chiverton becomes an active professional boxer again, no malice towards the post at all, just stating facts.

that all sounds fair enough , but one thing i would say is that surely then from a matchmaking point of view , wouldnt it have made sense to get curtis this fight , due to chiverton being so inactive (which i agree is the case , when i last spoke to him he blamed it on work commitments) , surely an inactive fighter with a record of 10-1-1 , would look better on woodhouses record and also the attention surrounding the possible fight would have got curtis a bit of exposure that he could have capitalised (and yourself too id imagine) , dont get me wrong im not a freind as such of karls , i just know him through me promoting my white collar shows , like i said i dont know what the contracts would have said , or even like you say , if there even was any offer , but surely youd agree the fight would have made sense and would likely have been a nice little earner compared to putting him in with guys who , with no disrespect intended , hes expecting to beat . both guys thought they could win and both gave it "the big un " thats what made it intriguing , im talking as a boxing fan , and at the end of the day putting on what the fans want to see is surely the best way to make money , of course pick the right opponents , no one would expect different , but from your point of view surely in inactive fighter would be there for the taking to further enhance woodhouses rep , also on your other point , i dont personally know of any other fights that karl hasnt ended up not doing after agreeing during his time of inactivity , he was pulled from a show in mansfield in august vs alex spitko when he got in trouble on a night out and had some explaining to do to the board but thats all i know of .

dont think any of my post is at all a dig at you personally in any way , just stating that its a fight that i feel should really have happenned.

No problem with your post at all mate.

I disagree with you in the fact where u think it makes sense for me to put Curtis in with Karl as he's inactive.
Firstly, as a promoter, i have no intention of putting him in with someone who isn't seen as reliable.
Also, Dean Hickman in an 8 round fight for Curtis, coming off his first loss, wasn't an easy fight. Hickman has fought at a much higher level than Curtis, Jay Morris has beaten Curtis so i think this proves he isn't fighting people who he's expected to beat anymore.
Add into the fact that curtis has moved down to light-welterweight, so Chiverton has to show even more dedication if he wants the fight. 1. Actually have a fight. 2. come down to light-welter.
Chiverton called out Curtis' name in order to get his own name known, getting an article in his local paper challenging Curtis. Fair enough and i think its great pr to do so.. but he hasn't fought since the article and all the calling out!!!
It's not very reasonable to claim Curtis is ducking Chiverton, because what is there to duck? a guy that doesn't fight?! He 'ducks' a fighter who has never ko'd a boxer, despite only boxing at journeyman level, to go on to box a known puncher who has boxed at a much higher level than the pair of them. Then box a guy over ten rounds who has beaten him previously? I don't think you can really believe there's any 'ducking' going on.

I didn't want to mention his out of the ring problems as its none of my business, but, the fact is he's not involved in any other promotions. Not had a fight, nothing lined up.
I told curtis to tell chiverton to go and get a fight, show you're serious about boxing, and then we can talk. But still no fight lined up for Chiverton.

d wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:

d wrote: Sorry, but i don't know who said the fight was offered, but i was never contacted by ANYONE regarding a fight with Karl.
In fact, Chiverton hasn't boxed since 2008 so why on earth would i make that match anyway? When Curtis told me about the banter that has gone on with him, i told him once Chiverton has actually had a fight, and has become active again, i'll make the match.
If you type his name in boxrec, he isn't in amongst the 'active' boxers on their records.
I've been told he HAS been matched a couple of times, but has not fought, so why would i build a show around a fight that at the moment, features a fighter that doesn't fight?

Curtis would love the fight, i haven't a problem making the fight, but only when Chiverton becomes an active professional boxer again, no malice towards the post at all, just stating facts.

that all sounds fair enough , but one thing i would say is that surely then from a matchmaking point of view , wouldnt it have made sense to get curtis this fight , due to chiverton being so inactive (which i agree is the case , when i last spoke to him he blamed it on work commitments) , surely an inactive fighter with a record of 10-1-1 , would look better on woodhouses record and also the attention surrounding the possible fight would have got curtis a bit of exposure that he could have capitalised (and yourself too id imagine) , dont get me wrong im not a freind as such of karls , i just know him through me promoting my white collar shows , like i said i dont know what the contracts would have said , or even like you say , if there even was any offer , but surely youd agree the fight would have made sense and would likely have been a nice little earner compared to putting him in with guys who , with no disrespect intended , hes expecting to beat . both guys thought they could win and both gave it "the big un " thats what made it intriguing , im talking as a boxing fan , and at the end of the day putting on what the fans want to see is surely the best way to make money , of course pick the right opponents , no one would expect different , but from your point of view surely in inactive fighter would be there for the taking to further enhance woodhouses rep , also on your other point , i dont personally know of any other fights that karl hasnt ended up not doing after agreeing during his time of inactivity , he was pulled from a show in mansfield in august vs alex spitko when he got in trouble on a night out and had some explaining to do to the board but thats all i know of .

dont think any of my post is at all a dig at you personally in any way , just stating that its a fight that i feel should really have happenned.

No problem with your post at all mate.

I disagree with you in the fact where u think it makes sense for me to put Curtis in with Karl as he's inactive.
Firstly, as a promoter, i have no intention of putting him in with someone who isn't seen as reliable.
Also, Dean Hickman in an 8 round fight for Curtis, coming off his first loss, wasn't an easy fight. Hickman has fought at a much higher level than Curtis, Jay Morris has beaten Curtis so i think this proves he isn't fighting people who he's expected to beat anymore.
Add into the fact that curtis has moved down to light-welterweight, so Chiverton has to show even more dedication if he wants the fight. 1. Actually have a fight. 2. come down to light-welter.
Chiverton called out Curtis' name in order to get his own name known, getting an article in his local paper challenging Curtis. Fair enough and i think its great pr to do so.. but he hasn't fought since the article and all the calling out!!!
It's not very reasonable to claim Curtis is ducking Chiverton, because what is there to duck? a guy that doesn't fight?! He 'ducks' a fighter who has never ko'd a boxer, despite only boxing at journeyman level, to go on to box a known puncher who has boxed at a much higher level than the pair of them. Then box a guy over ten rounds who has beaten him previously? I don't think you can really believe there's any 'ducking' going on.

I didn't want to mention his out of the ring problems as its none of my business, but, the fact is he's not involved in any other promotions. Not had a fight, nothing lined up.
I told curtis to tell chiverton to go and get a fight, show you're serious about boxing, and then we can talk. But still no fight lined up for Chiverton.

to be honest im not sure chiv could make light welter anyway , i think welter is a push that hed struggle to do but think hed still make it , just not easy , i reckon light middles where hes done most fights , if i remember correctly ,
as far as karl only fighting journeyman level though , to be fair so far so has curtis , other than hickman , who admittedly is probably better than any of karls previous opponents , but just like karls early career loss , woodhouse lost to a guy who no arguments about it , he was expected to beat , and slipped up . im certain curtis will win with ease this time as he will have learned from it .

all i can say is i hope woodhouse vs chiverton does happen at some point , but i feel that its sort of lost its significance now that curtis isnt at mansfield , and i do , despite what youve said still feel that woodhouse didnt fancy fighting karl for whatever reason , i saw the stuff curtis was writing on facebook , stuff that came from himself , so if he really wanted the fight , it would have been made im sure .
but of course its your job to advise and look after his interests and even if it was the case that curtis ducked id never in a million years expect him or yourself to actually come out and say it , it just wouldnt make sense .

maybe its a credit to him that hes still being talked about now that the ex-footballer novelty tag has slowly gone away , i like all early fighters to do well until they show me other wise and same applies to curtis , id like him to do well and would be getting behind him if that happens .

maybe i was blinkered by hearing what karl was saying who knows .

Dave when the fight was in the local papers for me to fight Curtis it was around the time he fought Matt Scriven which was March which would have made me only 3 Months out of the ring and as you know that is not alot of time to be inactive.....Then again after he fought Matt Curtis said to the mansfield papers he wanted to fight me at field mill in the summer, From what I was told by Matt Scriven he attempted to put the fight on at Field Mill for you to say it would only happen on a Hayemaker show from which there was no offer for me to fight curtis on any bill at all. The fight in my oppinion should have and could have happened and I was more than willing to take it. And yes you are correct I am now inactive due to work commitments so for the forseeable it is not worth looking at.

chiv54 wrote:Dave when the fight was in the local papers for me to fight Curtis it was around the time he fought Matt Scriven which was March which would have made me only 3 Months out of the ring and as you know that is not alot of time to be inactive.....Then again after he fought Matt Curtis said to the mansfield papers he wanted to fight me at field mill in the summer, From what I was told by Matt Scriven he attempted to put the fight on at Field Mill for you to say it would only happen on a Hayemaker show from which there was no offer for me to fight curtis on any bill at all. The fight in my oppinion should have and could have happened and I was more than willing to take it. And yes you are correct I am now inactive due to work commitments so for the forseeable it is not worth looking at.

just shows you browse these forums from time to time karl , nice to have your input.

although there is another interesting point which was made to me a while back..this was when a show featuring curtis woodhouse around last september was cancelled due to him not being able to find suitable opposition Dale Miles who was about 5-0 at the time was offered and turned down. So basically the show was cancelled in favor of boxing dale.

chiv54 wrote:Dave when the fight was in the local papers for me to fight Curtis it was around the time he fought Matt Scriven which was March which would have made me only 3 Months out of the ring and as you know that is not alot of time to be inactive.....Then again after he fought Matt Curtis said to the mansfield papers he wanted to fight me at field mill in the summer, From what I was told by Matt Scriven he attempted to put the fight on at Field Mill for you to say it would only happen on a Hayemaker show from which there was no offer for me to fight curtis on any bill at all. The fight in my oppinion should have and could have happened and I was more than willing to take it. And yes you are correct I am now inactive due to work commitments so for the forseeable it is not worth looking at.

Scriv did mention the fight, but it was a brief conversation as he expected to promote the match. it came after he fought Curtis.
Curtis is managed and promoted by myself, Hayemaker at at the time and Curtis was scheduled to box Belfast in April and Liverpool in July. Both tv shows.
The fact that it was announced locally that the fight would take place at mansfield on someone else's show amused us to be honest as there was only ever that ONE brief conversation. That doesn't constitute an offer, as no money was talked about, and when i let it be known that the fight would have to be on our show or Curtis to be paid what he gets on our shows, there was no further 'offer' or conversation.

Like you say, it's a pointless conversation now, although if you do make a comeback sometime and get a couple of wins it'd be a good story.

Damian,
It is not for me to teach anyone to suck eggs but I think we've all discovered over the years it's best to establish facts rather than go on hearsay - me more than most in my formative years !
I think what got most people going was your first post - quote - "blatently ducked" and "wouldn't agree terms" both of which are absolute nonsense.
Add to that - quote - "Chiverton would have fought for nothing" again absolute nonsense.
As Dave rightly says water under the bridge and time really to return to the thread itself and talk about the rematch.
Looking forward to it.
Was ringside in Belfast and my first reaction was Curtis had won.
Second viewing when I got home and not so sure.

chiv54 wrote:although there is another interesting point which was made to me a while back..this was when a show featuring curtis woodhouse around last september was cancelled due to him not being able to find suitable opposition Dale Miles who was about 5-0 at the time was offered and turned down. So basically the show was cancelled in favor of boxing dale.

Not at all mate, need to get things right before you talk about shows being called off.
It was three fight show with two pull outs on the last couple of days upto the fight. So that left me with one fight, so even if i did match Curtis, there would have been no show as it would have only had two fights.
But being honest you have a point in truth that yes i was offered Dale Miles, a 5-0 kid at the time, who is now 7-0 with 4ko's and beaten a few fighters with winning records. And weighs in as a big welterweight.. while Curtis was coming down to light-welter?
Curtis was coming off a defeat, not boxed since april and you think as a manager i would put him in at two days notice with someone like that?
Hand up to that one. No i wouldn't.

But like i said, Hickman, a return with Morris over ten rounds and then we look to stepping up.

THEBUTCH wrote:But when is he going to step up the opposition? I'm not keen on sportsmen who played at a good level in other sports, then take up boxing and take forever and a day to get serious with their matchmaking.

He was scheduled to fight Graham Earl at one point, but Earl pulled out. That would suggest that he is willing to step up his opposition level.

twenty six wrote:Damian,
It is not for me to teach anyone to suck eggs but I think we've all discovered over the years it's best to establish facts rather than go on hearsay - me more than most in my formative years !
I think what got most people going was your first post - quote - "blatently ducked" and "wouldn't agree terms" both of which are absolute nonsense.
Add to that - quote - "Chiverton would have fought for nothing" again absolute nonsense.
As Dave rightly says water under the bridge and time really to return to the thread itself and talk about the rematch.
Looking forward to it.
Was ringside in Belfast and my first reaction was Curtis had won.
Second viewing when I got home and not so sure.

as ive said since though in a later post , to dave , i do feel the chiverton fight was one that wasnt fancied , wether it be by curtis himself or his management team , ill point out that karl said he was told the fight would only happen if it was a hayemaker show , dave too said it would be upto him and hayemaker not scriven to promote it , that being said it would be upto curtis woodhouse;s promotional party to make karl an offer , which they didnt , if curtis really wanted the fight , as he had said himself on facebook , then it would have happenned but it didnt , so yes karl was in my opinion ducked , im not saying ducked means he chickened out or was scared , im saying the fight wasnt taken when he had said he wanted it , and your second quote of mine was that i said they didnt agree terms , well they didnt did they , otherwise again the fight would have taken place. and finally about me saying hed have taken the fight for free , ok we all know he isnt literally gonna take it free , its a job , it pays the bills for many fighters , but what i meant was he was hardly gonna try to hold them top ransom , he wanted the fight , even if just to shut woodhouse up , as he was saying he would ko chiv in a round or words to that effect , you of all people im sure know that not everything is read in black and white and doesnt mean everything is literally what is written ,

the only thing i do agree with you on is that your right its all irrellevent now , i personally dont think karl would go down to light welter anyway , even if he was active (correct me though if im wrong karl) , i would like to say though that i hope i havent offended dave or karl in my posts , its a boxing forum , where people discuss there opinions , opinions are not fact and are not attempted to be proven as fact , my opinion just happens to be that woodhouse ducked chiverton .

and earl is quite obviuosly not at the same level anymore .

on a final note though , id love to see chiv and woodhouse enter a welterweight prizefighter , maybe they could get it on there and one of them go on to show they can go onto better things.

to get back to the original topic though , i reckon woodhouse wins comfortably vs morris.