BoxRec

tuesday january 5th's sun newspaper, page 53, article entitled 'Haye: I'm Chinfalliable'

you put your name to an article you have penned, you claim to be a boxing fan but you are an idiot, your article is far from accurate.

you called Carl Thompson a 'journeyman' ...

you claim that haye said he had only been on the canvas for longer than 8 seconds against thompson ... ... i seem to recall the fight being stopped with haye still on his feet.

for someone who is supposed to be a 'name' in boxing journalism, why is your article such crap, i hope you find the time to respond to this post, what on earth do you do when you are sat with your 'girlfriend' in the ringside press seats. you are a tool !!

T
his article had me somewhat confussed to.

I didn't read it - but I take it that it was generally negative towards Haye?

I stopped reading his stuff years ago...

Mistake, after mistake, after mistake....... Colin Hart was 50 times better. Sheehan should never have gotten the job, and shouldn't keep it. Sory, felt it from day one.

best wishes,

"T.M.K"

rhino222 wrote:tuesday january 5th's sun newspaper, page 53, article entitled 'Haye: I'm Chinfalliable'

you put your name to an article you have penned, you claim to be a boxing fan but you are an idiot, your article is far from accurate.

you called Carl Thompson a 'journeyman' ...

you claim that haye said he had only been on the canvas for longer than 8 seconds against thompson ... ... i seem to recall the fight being stopped with haye still on his feet.

for someone who is supposed to be a 'name' in boxing journalism, why is your article such crap, i hope you find the time to respond to this post, what on earth do you do when you are sat with your 'girlfriend' in the ringside press seats. you are a tool !!

I remember Mr Sheehan getting upset at the last time he was slated on these forums concerning his and another seat given to him at Woods v Johnson 1!!!!

Elliott Worsell, Carey, Gav and a few others slated him big time!!! - Elliott was particularly damming!!!

Sheehan is simply awful....dreadful....EVERY article I read I find some factual inaccuracy.

Spud wrote:

rhino222 wrote:tuesday january 5th's sun newspaper, page 53, article entitled 'Haye: I'm Chinfalliable'

you put your name to an article you have penned, you claim to be a boxing fan but you are an idiot, your article is far from accurate.

you called Carl Thompson a 'journeyman' ...

you claim that haye said he had only been on the canvas for longer than 8 seconds against thompson ... ... i seem to recall the fight being stopped with haye still on his feet.

for someone who is supposed to be a 'name' in boxing journalism, why is your article such crap, i hope you find the time to respond to this post, what on earth do you do when you are sat with your 'girlfriend' in the ringside press seats. you are a tool !!

I remember Mr Sheehan getting upset at the last time he was slated on these forums concerning his and another seat given to him at Woods v Johnson 1!!!!

Elliott Worsell, Carey, Gav and a few others slated him big time!!! - Elliott was particularly damming!!!

the sad thing mate is that the fukka gets bloody well paid for being totally uninformative and innacurate, how any boxing journo can call carl thompson a journeyman is absolutely unbelievable, the cat is one of the most entertaining, bravest and finest warriors this country has produced in the post war era !!!

rhino222 wrote:tuesday january 5th's sun newspaper, page 53, article entitled 'Haye: I'm Chinfalliable'

you put your name to an article you have penned, you claim to be a boxing fan but you are an idiot, your article is far from accurate.

you called Carl Thompson a 'journeyman' ...

you claim that haye said he had only been on the canvas for longer than 8 seconds against thompson ... ... i seem to recall the fight being stopped with haye still on his feet.

for someone who is supposed to be a 'name' in boxing journalism, why is your article such crap, i hope you find the time to respond to this post, what on earth do you do when you are sat with your 'girlfriend' in the ringside press seats. you are a tool !!

Thompson did knock Haye down early in the fifth and was stopped on his feet at the end of the round.

Are you only upset because Thompson gets called a journeyman? The Haye fight was five years after he was a world champion.
Journeyman used to be all sorts of opponents. In George Kimball's book Four Kings he called Kirkland Laing a journeyman.
It's only in Britain that journeyman now means serial loser, which isn't what it meant originally.

A "journeyman" is a boxer who has little or no expectation of winning his fights, thus he is said to be "along for the journey". They are generally competent boxers who possess solid boxing skills and/or the ability to absorb punishment. Often they were aspiring novices or even prospects, but were defeated and found to have limitations which relegated them to the role of journeyman.
Notable Successful Journeymen

There have been boxers who were considered journeyman, who have gone to have professional success in boxing, and captured world championships. Notable examples include:
Jim Braddock - A former #1 ranked Light Heavyweight conteder, he had been relegated to journeyman status shortly before propelling himself to winning the Heavyweight title from Max Baer.
Freddie Pendleton - overcame a .500 record early in his career to become a Lightweight title holder in the early 1990s.
Teddy (Redtop) Davis - a former sparring partner for Willie Pep, he emerged as a top contender during the mid-1950s, and earned a title shot against Featherweight champion Sandy Saddler in 1955. At the time of the bout, he entered with a record of 62-50-5, which is the worst record in terms of losses of any challenger for a major world title.
Emanuel Augustus.

How was Thompson any better than that group?

And Spud, why was it wrong for him to complain about his seat? How is it you resent national journalists, take the piss when they get a seat where they can't see (and do their job), then you go on here and complain about the lack of boxing in national papers?

Pat Sheehan is a football writer.

He only covers boxing because the Sun don't give the sport enough courage to warrent employing someone full time for it. His lack of knowledge is shines through in almost all his articles. This isn't a knock by the way.

gobbles wrote:

rhino222 wrote:tuesday january 5th's sun newspaper, page 53, article entitled 'Haye: I'm Chinfalliable'

you put your name to an article you have penned, you claim to be a boxing fan but you are an idiot, your article is far from accurate.

you called Carl Thompson a 'journeyman' ...

you claim that haye said he had only been on the canvas for longer than 8 seconds against thompson ... ... i seem to recall the fight being stopped with haye still on his feet.

for someone who is supposed to be a 'name' in boxing journalism, why is your article such crap, i hope you find the time to respond to this post, what on earth do you do when you are sat with your 'girlfriend' in the ringside press seats. you are a tool !!

Thompson did knock Haye down early in the fifth and was stopped on his feet at the end of the round.

Are you only upset because Thompson gets called a journeyman? The Haye fight was five years after he was a world champion.
Journeyman used to be all sorts of opponents. In George Kimball's book Four Kings he called Kirkland Laing a journeyman.
It's only in Britain that journeyman now means serial loser, which isn't what it meant originally.

A "journeyman" is a boxer who has little or no expectation of winning his fights, thus he is said to be "along for the journey". They are generally competent boxers who possess solid boxing skills and/or the ability to absorb punishment. Often they were aspiring novices or even prospects, but were defeated and found to have limitations which relegated them to the role of journeyman.
Notable Successful Journeymen

There have been boxers who were considered journeyman, who have gone to have professional success in boxing, and captured world championships. Notable examples include:
Jim Braddock - A former #1 ranked Light Heavyweight conteder, he had been relegated to journeyman status shortly before propelling himself to winning the Heavyweight title from Max Baer.
Freddie Pendleton - overcame a .500 record early in his career to become a Lightweight title holder in the early 1990s.
Teddy (Redtop) Davis - a former sparring partner for Willie Pep, he emerged as a top contender during the mid-1950s, and earned a title shot against Featherweight champion Sandy Saddler in 1955. At the time of the bout, he entered with a record of 62-50-5, which is the worst record in terms of losses of any challenger for a major world title.
Emanuel Augustus.

How was Thompson any better than that group?

And Spud, why was it wrong for him to complain about his seat? How is it you resent national journalists, take the piss when they get a seat where they can't see (and do their job), then you go on here and complain about the lack of boxing in national papers?

'A "journeyman" is a boxer who has little or no expectation of winning his fights'

if you think that this line sums up thompson at anytime in his career they you are a fool !!

[quote="gobbles"]

Thompson did knock Haye down early in the fifth and was stopped on his feet at the end of the round.
[quote]

i was ringside that night, i know haye was knocked down, and im also aware of the fact that the count did not go past 8.

sheenob incinuates that haye got knocked out by thompson when he was knocked down and the count went past 8.

and hey gobbles (and i bet you do !!).... 7 months before the haye fight thompson had laid out sebastian rothmann, big style for the IBO world cruiser crown. the haye fight was for the same crown. thompson, although aged, was still a very dangerous warrior who always played to win, i spoke to him before the fight and he told me ....... 'well, everyone is expecting haye to knock me out, for me to turn up and lay down, but im sorry, that is not in my script, lets just see what happens' .....

In no sense could Thompson have been considered a journeyman at the time he fought Haye. Pure unadulterated nonsense.

rhino222 wrote:

gobbles wrote:
Thompson did knock Haye down early in the fifth and was stopped on his feet at the end of the round.

i was ringside that night, i know haye was knocked down, and im also aware of the fact that the count did not go past 8.

sheenob incinuates that haye got knocked out by thompson when he was knocked down and the count went past 8.

Reading the article, it is actually a Haye quote talking about the count, it is also taken from an interview in GQ.
Yes he had flattened Rothmann, having been battered to the brink of defeat, which is why Haye took the fight. Also, the IBO title then was even more pathetic than it is now.

I don't think Thompson was a journeyman, but that doesn't mean anyone who described him as one should be slaughtered in such a way.

Shame you can't post without such an insulting tone, towards me let alone him

I've read a few of his articles, but the man doesnt have the required boxing knowledge.

As someone said in another post, its not knocking him, he just doesn't have a real understanding about boxing or the fighters themselves. Thats what you get when you get someone who covers football, covering boxing.

Colin Hart, regardless of what some people might think of him, is a true boxing man and knows his stuff.

Pat Sheehan doesnt, but it is The Sun, were talking about

The misuse of the word "journeyman" is one of my big bugbears in boxing journalism.

Literally, of course, the term refers to someone who travels to get work, and applied to boxing that means the guy in the "other" corner. But of course words evolve and their meanings change with this evolution. The word "decimate" literally means to remove one-tenth, but it is now commonly used to describe widespread destrcution/damage.

So, in contemporary usage, we all know the journeyman is the "opponent". He may or may not have a losing record, he may or may not try to win, but the widespread expectation is that he won't. He's there to provide rounds and/or pad a record and/or teach the other guy a thing or two, etc.

There are, of course, levels of journeymen. They can be anything from Peter Buckley and Sid Razak up to Emanuel Augustus and Demetrice King. But what they are not is title holders or realistic title aspirants. They are not (usually) former world or European champions. They are not top 10 world-ranked. They do not have vastly more wins than losses. They do not have their names on the left of the bill, defending titles, on the BBC.

In other words, describing Carl Thompson as a journeyman is not only inaccurate and lazy, it's insulting. Just as it was when journalists scrabbling to ramp up the sensationalism described Hasim Rahman and Danny Williams as "journeymen" when they beat Lewis and Tyson, respectively.

Underdogs, yes, but journeymen? Ridiculous.

oliverfennell wrote:
In other words, describing Carl Thompson as a journeyman is not only inaccurate and lazy, it's insulting. Just as it was when journalists scrabbling to ramp up the sensationalism described Hasim Rahman and Danny Williams as "journeymen" when they beat Lewis and Tyson, respectively.

Underdogs, yes, but journeymen? Ridiculous.

Spot on.

im pretty sure wazza pays pat sheehan and colin hart to slate haye every chance they get wazza's last article he brought up valuev being the worst champ in history and ruiz the 2nd.which is bs. he has said that about 10 times now and it's getting boring. utter disgrace

Wasn't Sheehan the F1 writer for a while too?

I remember him from the C4 programme 'Faking It' where they got a nobody trained them in something and got 'experts' to see who was the faker and who were the pros. Well Mr Sheehan the F1 writer for the Sun was the only 'expert' not to pick the faker and made himself look a tool in the process. Take his articles with a pinch of salt.

MrBoxingUK2 wrote:im pretty sure wazza pays pat sheehan and colin hart to slate haye every chance they get wazza's last article he brought up valuev being the worst champ in history and ruiz the 2nd.which is bs. he has said that about 10 times now and it's getting boring. utter disgrace

i went to a press conference where the nepotism betwen hart and SN was cringeworthy.

asking the right questiosn at the right times...they are obviously old friends.

regardless of different definitions in america and england, many yank writers cosidered thompson a top 10 world class cruiser, incl michal katz. in spite of thompson's loss to sellers, and because of his win over rothmann i would think.

boxing is chaos, it is hard to keep up with what's what. but sheehan simply doesn't know his stuff.

Wake up call wrote:Pat Sheehan is a football writer.

He only covers boxing because the Sun don't give the sport enough courage to warrent employing someone full time for it. His lack of knowledge is shines through in almost all his articles. This isn't a knock by the way.

C'mon Andy. The news group have a writer with boxing knowledge at their disposal.

They clearly can't be arsed to use him.

I think the term journeyman has changed over the years..... I remember it being described for the "have gloves will travel" type of fighter.... but people with this attidude would still be classed as a journeyman - even if they went to win.

HOWEVER, even this didn't fit Thompson... Thompson was a top ten fighter at the time of the Haye fight and, the fact that after the fight he looked to secure a world title fight, turning down other offers signifies he didn't have any type of journeyman mentality.

Although, his performance after Haye was that of a shot fighter - but the was no sign of that before the Haye fight. Well, I don't think he was the fighter he was - but he just was coming off, IMO, a career best win.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

Wake up call wrote:Pat Sheehan is a football writer.

He only covers boxing because the Sun don't give the sport enough courage to warrent employing someone full time for it. His lack of knowledge is shines through in almost all his articles. This isn't a knock by the way.

C'mon Andy. The news group have a writer with boxing knowledge at their disposal.

They clearly can't be arsed to use him.

As far as I'm aware Colin Hart isn't employed by the sun on an actual contract. He's freelance with the agreement to do one article per week. This keeps their costs down as they can get the in house guy (Sheehan) to do the rest of the work.

apparently thompson was paid a lot for the haye fight - a "king's ransom", someone once said. that would also contradict that he was not a journeyman.