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I've just been wondering recently........

In the eyes of the boxing community would Jeff Fenech be held in higher regard if he had officially won the first fight with Azumah Nelson.

He was clearly robbed in that fight, but i cant help but feel if he did become a four division champ and his name was right there beside Duran, Hearns and even Leonard....he may have been held in higher esteem.

Thoughts?

Tinnie wrote:I've just been wondering recently........

In the eyes of the boxing community would Jeff Fenech be held in higher regard if he had officially won the first fight with Azumah Nelson.

He was clearly robbed in that fight, but i cant help but feel if he did become a four division champ and his name was right there beside Duran, Hearns and even Leonard....he may have been held in higher esteem.

Thoughts?

He won the fight, & knowledgeable fight fans will tick the box against his name for it, & mark him accordingly.

People whose opinions shouldn't matter will continue learning through BoxRec career records. If you're smart, you'll cut off any debate with someone the minute they say, "Fenech couldn't beat Nelson in two fights," no?

Had he officially beaten Nelson I don't think any knowledgable fan would ever have placed Fenech close to Duran, Hearns or Leonard. If he'd unified at least a couple of divisions and defended the unified titles numerous times then he would have been a bit closer, but that's about it

All up from memory he defended 10? times over 3 weighs and only foughts greats in Zarate who was coming off a 7 year retirement and Nelson who was a bit past his prime in 1991. And the only fight I can remember where he came back well from adversity was when Steve McCrory had him wobbled at bantamweight

I think Fenech would have a better legacy if he had retired before the rematch with Azumah Nelson. But even then, it's not on the same level as Leonard, Hearns and Duran.

Fenech beat some guys considered decent at the time in Zaragoza, McCroy, Payakaroon, Greg Richardson, an old Zarate, Callejas, Villasana and Mario Martinez. While I enjoyed watching him work, he never held a title for long or dominated a division. Had he received the decision against Nelson and won another alphabet belt, he would have gotten props, but in no way would anyone consider him equal to legends like Duran, Leonard and Hearns. And remember, he got starched by Nelson in the rematch less than a year later in Oz and was never the same.
The better question might be, how good would Fenech have been if he hadn't had so many problems with his hands?

giacomino wrote:Fenech beat some guys considered decent at the time in Zaragoza, McCroy, Payakaroon, Greg Richardson, an old Zarate, Callejas, Villasana and Mario Martinez. While I enjoyed watching him work, he never held a title for long or dominated a division. Had he received the decision against Nelson and won another alphabet belt, he would have gotten props, but in no way would anyone consider him equal to legends like Duran, Leonard and Hearns. And remember, he got starched by Nelson in the rematch less than a year later in Oz and was never the same.
The better question might be, how good would Fenech have been if he hadn't had so many problems with his hands?

Which would you say was his best division, & how would you rate him amongst the all-timers there, accordingly?

Fenech was a buzzsaw. He was definitely robbed in his first match with Azumah......but to Azumah's credit he won their rematch. Fenech's hand problems along with never seeming to get over that first blemish (draw Vs Azumah) kept us from seeing what could have been a great trilogy between these two ATGs. (Well that and Calvin Grove's right hand!.....but than again, that was not the same Jeff Fenech in the ring that night.....he had been hit with much bigger shots before and walked through them). His mental state after both that draw and then TKO Vs Azumah along with his hand problems and lifestyle all caught up with him by the time of the Grove fight....

As for his best weight. I would contend it would have been at FW.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

giacomino wrote:Fenech beat some guys considered decent at the time in Zaragoza, McCroy, Payakaroon, Greg Richardson, an old Zarate, Callejas, Villasana and Mario Martinez. While I enjoyed watching him work, he never held a title for long or dominated a division. Had he received the decision against Nelson and won another alphabet belt, he would have gotten props, but in no way would anyone consider him equal to legends like Duran, Leonard and Hearns. And remember, he got starched by Nelson in the rematch less than a year later in Oz and was never the same.
The better question might be, how good would Fenech have been if he hadn't had so many problems with his hands?

Which would you say was his best division, & how would you rate him amongst the all-timers there, accordingly?

I thought he was most dominating as a junior featherweight. Most people forget that Payakaroon was an undefeated, up and coming hotshot when Fenech fought him, coming off KO wins over Lupe Pinter and former champion Juan Kid Mesa. Fenech ruined Payakaroon. He was far too strong for Greg Richardson in his first defense, and Richardson went on to win a share of the bantamweight belt. Zarate was old but on a hot streak before Fenech KO'd him, and Fenech's decision over multiple champion Zaragoza came at junior featherweight as well. While he beat some good fighters at featherweight, he didn't seem to carry all of his power to 126. If he had stayed at junior featherweight for another year or so, he probably would have wound up in my top 5 in that weight division all-time. Because he spent so little time at any one weight, he's hard to judge against the division's best. But I think he would have given anyone at 122 a tough fight

One of the best fighters of the 1980s. I can't really remember a fighter from 126 down who he missed.

giacomino wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

giacomino wrote:Fenech beat some guys considered decent at the time in Zaragoza, McCroy, Payakaroon, Greg Richardson, an old Zarate, Callejas, Villasana and Mario Martinez. While I enjoyed watching him work, he never held a title for long or dominated a division. Had he received the decision against Nelson and won another alphabet belt, he would have gotten props, but in no way would anyone consider him equal to legends like Duran, Leonard and Hearns. And remember, he got starched by Nelson in the rematch less than a year later in Oz and was never the same.
The better question might be, how good would Fenech have been if he hadn't had so many problems with his hands?

Which would you say was his best division, & how would you rate him amongst the all-timers there, accordingly?

I thought he was most dominating as a junior featherweight. Most people forget that Payakaroon was an undefeated, up and coming hotshot when Fenech fought him, coming off KO wins over Lupe Pinter and former champion Juan Kid Mesa. Fenech ruined Payakaroon. He was far too strong for Greg Richardson in his first defense, and Richardson went on to win a share of the bantamweight belt. Zarate was old but on a hot streak before Fenech KO'd him, and Fenech's decision over multiple champion Zaragoza came at junior featherweight as well. While he beat some good fighters at featherweight, he didn't seem to carry all of his power to 126. If he had stayed at junior featherweight for another year or so, he probably would have wound up in my top 5 in that weight division all-time. Because he spent so little time at any one weight, he's hard to judge against the division's best. But I think he would have given anyone at 122 a tough fight

Spot on with this post. At 122 he was at his most devastating. The Payakarun KO still makes me wince when I see it

And I would have liked to have seen him in against Antonio Esparagosa at 126

Fenech was an absolute warrior who rampaged his way through 3 divisions and always gave his all. His win over Pankayroon (spelling) probably was the fight where he was at his peak. Although despite most people (including myself) agreeing Fenech did win the first encounter with Nelson, I personally didnt think that Fenech dominated the fight. Nelson was fighting off the ropes well countering Fenech's charges and though Fenech walked right through them, its still points going to Nelson. I saw it as a comfortable but not dominant performace by Fenech.

Tinnie wrote:I've just been wondering recently........

In the eyes of the boxing community would Jeff Fenech be held in higher regard if he had officially won the first fight with Azumah Nelson.

He was clearly robbed in that fight, but i cant help but feel if he did become a four division champ and his name was right there beside Duran, Hearns and even Leonard....he may have been held in higher esteem.

Thoughts?

He is pure class and a true great. Not on the level of Duran though.

The End

Tinnie wrote:I've just been wondering recently........

In the eyes of the boxing community would Jeff Fenech be held in higher regard if he had officially won the first fight with Azumah Nelson.

He was clearly robbed in that fight, but i cant help but feel if he did become a four division champ and his name was right there beside Duran, Hearns and even Leonard....he may have been held in higher esteem.

Thoughts?

Fenech beat Nelson.

He was fighting a strong, top level fighter BIGGER than he was

and he was the aggressor and took the fight right to Nelson.

That was a horrendous robbery (the decision).

What about the rumours surrounding Nelson's health?

What was the alleged condition again? It was something from the dark continent...claims of him suffering from typhoid, or malaria?

Thanks guys for the great responses, i just wanted to clear up that in no way was i trying to compare Fenech's resume to the likes of Duran,ect. Only that at the time (i think) Leonard, Duran & Hearns were the only ones ever to win titles in more than 3 weight divisions and had he officially won he would have shared that achievement (not status necessarly) with those fighters.

What actually got me thinking about this subject, was that a few weeks ago i saw a recent interview with Fenech in which he was talking breif about how he was robbed in that fight. He then went on to say that he had to accept these things happen and move on with life. It did seem to me though that even as he was saying these things he was trying to convince himself that he'd moved on. It certainly seemed liked its still a wound thats cutting him deep.


But that said he's certainly not the only boxer in history to recieve a "dubious" decision

Tinnie,

The fight took place at the Mirage Hotel & Casino, in Las Vegas.

Fenech was the outsider, with no connections.

It was his FIRST fight in the US.

Meanwhile this was Nelson's 15th fight in the US.

That tells me everything.

Nelson claimed he was suffering from malaria but I doubt any doctor would have passed him fit to fight had malaria been affecting his system

And yes there was a lot of talk about Don King mysteriously arranging a draw but as he said himself, if he was going to rig it then surely it would have been in Fenech's favour since he was promoting Fenech at the time

Re Nelson...his wife passed away not long before the Whitaker fight. Whitaker would have beaten Nelson no matter what, but Nelson said after the fight "it's really only a game and it just doesn't matter. there are more important things in life". Very true, considering the context he was speaking in

"Nelson claimed he was suffering from malaria"

Nelson was suffering from an opponent who fought like a wolverine.