BoxRec

I know, I know another matchup but think on this one. Pernell Whitaker an all time great and Meldrick Taylor I know faded fast but in his prime he was one of the fastest fighters I've ever seen and threw tons of punches as well.

How do you see the defensive master against some of the fastest hands of all time?

Whitaker, and that's not a knock on Taylor, who I hold in pretty high esteem. Taylor's stirring performance against Chavez is about the complete opposite of how I would expect this fight to go. Whitaker frustrates the speedy Taylor with defensive wizardry and stamps out a solid UD.

Their differing success against Chavez and longevity aside, I see Taylor beating Whitaker. I think that PW's usual speed advantages on the evasive end would be all but negated by Taylor's own blistering hand speed. Whitaker had a very negative defensive style and he likely wouldn't open up as muc against Taylor because Meldrick would simply let loose with hyperspeed combos. Taylor outworks Whitaker over 12 for a close decision.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Their differing success against Chavez and longevity aside, I see Taylor beating Whitaker. I think that PW's usual speed advantages on the evasive end would be all but negated by Taylor's own blistering hand speed. Whitaker had a very negative defensive style and he likely wouldn't open up as muc against Taylor because Meldrick would simply let loose with hyperspeed combos. Taylor outworks Whitaker over 12 for a close decision.

Totally agree

Let me even the betting so far, then, by making it 2-&-2 in predictions by casting a vote for Whitaker. The reasons Weapon outlined, essentially, is why Taylor wins about four rounds on my card. Whitaker is not going to much care for Taylor's speed & punches in bunches --- two of the best assets to have against great defensive fighters. Let's be honest, though. Whitaker was no slouch in the speed department, had greater accuracy & variety to his punches, & he was more than just a defensive master --- Floyd Mayweather, for instance, is a true defensive master. Whitaker is much the same, but in an unconventional manner, making him that much harder to hit. He also doesn't need to seriously worry about Taylor hurting him, & this fight is probably at Jr. Welter, right? That's only a few pounds north of Whitaker's peak division --- a division in which I have him ranked as the greatest of all-time in.

Whitaker befuddles & perplexes Taylor for eight rounds. Taylor disrupts & out-punches Whitaker for four. In all honesty, one man in this fight was good. The other was great.

Taylor speed means little to a guy like Whitaker. He'll be trowing so many punches in the air and Whitaker will counter punch him all night long. You must take into consideration the defense (ring generalship) too when judging a fight. At the beginning Taylor would win a few rounds with the speed. However, as the fight goes on he will be running out of stamina trying to punch Whitaker and that is when Whitaker will take over the fight. Whitaker wins a convincingly decision imo.

I see 3 ways to beat Whittaker...

1) Be Tommy Hearns

2) Swarm him

3) Be as defensively sound as he is

Taylor has the speed to stand there and punch with Whittaker. Doesn't matter if he hits shoulders and gloves and elbows... The more he throws the more Whittaker closes down. I believe Taylor had all of the assets to be a great fighter (I think he was). He lost to Chavez in an amazing effort and then was put in with Norris in a ridiculous match up.

In this fight Pernell is more likely to get hurt than taylor.

Taylor has the greater handspeed and, as said, fires punches in punches. However he was more hittable than 'The Pea'.

Whittaker, as GI, said was no slouch when it came to speed. Taylor would do well, but the skills Whittaker displayed, the feints, the spins etc....would, in my opinion, result in a close UD win for 'The Pea'.

One for the purists, most definately. Loved watching both these great fighters

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Let me even the betting so far, then, by making it 2-&-2 in predictions by casting a vote for Whitaker. The reasons Weapon outlined, essentially, is why Taylor wins about four rounds on my card. Whitaker is not going to much care for Taylor's speed & punches in bunches --- two of the best assets to have against great defensive fighters. Let's be honest, though. Whitaker was no slouch in the speed department, had greater accuracy & variety to his punches, & he was more than just a defensive master --- Floyd Mayweather, for instance, is a true defensive master. Whitaker is much the same, but in an unconventional manner, making him that much harder to hit. He also doesn't need to seriously worry about Taylor hurting him, & this fight is probably at Jr. Welter, right? That's only a few pounds north of Whitaker's peak division --- a division in which I have him ranked as the greatest of all-time in.

Whitaker befuddles & perplexes Taylor for eight rounds. Taylor disrupts & out-punches Whitaker for four. In all honesty, one man in this fight was good. The other was great.

yup, solid take mate. the one thing i would add, to the excellent points already made (and although I disagree I find the posts in favour of Taylor to have quite convincing logic), is that Pernell was much, MUCH better with feints than Taylor was.

as someone mentioned above the intangible factor of ring generalship would definitely be in Pernell's favour, here, IMO. feinting, plus the southpaw angle, would mean that Pernell would too often be able to keep Taylor off balance, and would mean that Taylor wasn't getting offf first often enough to really get to Pea.

Ezzard wrote:I see 3 ways to beat Whittaker...

1) Be Tommy Hearns

2) Swarm him

3) Be as defensively sound as he is

Taylor has the speed to stand there and punch with Whittaker. Doesn't matter if he hits shoulders and gloves and elbows... The more he throws the more Whittaker closes down. I believe Taylor had all of the assets to be a great fighter (I think he was). He lost to Chavez in an amazing effort and then was put in with Norris in a ridiculous match up.

In this fight Pernell is more likely to get hurt than taylor.

Hello Ezzard,

This is my disagreement with your post. Whitaker had the type of defense in which he makes you missed completely. For instance, Mayweather’s defense is to roll with the punches and all you hit is the shoulders, gloves, and elbows. On the other hand, Whitaker make you missed completely, which I think is a little different. Taylor speeds was awesome, and I think he will steal some rounds, but as I see it he will run out of gas a lot sooner than Whitaker and that will lead to him losing the fight. Whitaker could go on 12 rounds easily because of his style. Taylor on the other hand, will have problems in later rounds as a result of Whitaker defense (making him miss a lot punches) and that will be his undoing. Whitaker was just too smart in the ring for Taylor.

Whitaker by EASY decision.

Taylor sure was fast but often fought sloppy and he'd be WIDE open for Pea's counters.

Whitaker technically was on another level to Taylor.

Yes, Whitaker is very different to Mayweather, but to say he made guys miss completely while Mayweather gets hit on the shoulders and stuff is complete bullshit. Whitaker's speech is so slurred you could probably make a slushie out of his voicebox, and that's largely due to the accumulated damaged he suffered over the years. He'd twist and spin and turn to make an opponent's misses or grazing shots look more dramatically missed than they were, but he took plenty of punishment over his career. Mayweather makes guys miss a lot more, and it's shown in his compubox numbers relative to Whitaker's, the difference is Mayweather doesn't bounce around the ring like Tigger to accentuate his opponent missing, he's content standing in the pocket and potshotting after a miss.

Whitaker was infinitely more intelligent as a fighter. That means a lot in this match up. As fast as taylor was, I can't see him making constant adjustments to what Whitaker is doing on the fly. Pernell was the stronger man and probably the stronger puncher. If the situation arose that Meldrick manages to build an early lead, Whitaker would press him, sit down on his shots and murder the kids body. Pea was a tremendous body puncher and a very strong man. His record is quite deceiving and a lot of folks that haven't seen all of his fights compare him to a Mayweather type that is cautious in his output. Pernell routinely threw over 1,000 punches in fights. Whitaker 8-4 or 9-3 and Taylor's face is a mess after an ugly second half.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Yes, Whitaker is very different to Mayweather, but to say he made guys miss completely while Mayweather gets hit on the shoulders and stuff is complete bullshit. Whitaker's speech is so slurred you could probably make a slushie out of his voicebox, and that's largely due to the accumulated damaged he suffered over the years. He'd twist and spin and turn to make an opponent's misses or grazing shots look more dramatically missed than they were, but he took plenty of punishment over his career. Mayweather makes guys miss a lot more, and it's shown in his compubox numbers relative to Whitaker's, the difference is Mayweather doesn't bounce around the ring like Tigger to accentuate his opponent missing, he's content standing in the pocket and potshotting after a miss.

Drug addiction had a lot to do with that and he took more punishment over his last couple of fights than he did in the rest of his fights combined.

Prime whitaker didn't take much of anything from anyone.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Yes, Whitaker is very different to Mayweather, but to say he made guys miss completely while Mayweather gets hit on the shoulders and stuff is complete bullshit. Whitaker's speech is so slurred you could probably make a slushie out of his voicebox, and that's largely due to the accumulated damaged he suffered over the years. He'd twist and spin and turn to make an opponent's misses or grazing shots look more dramatically missed than they were, but he took plenty of punishment over his career. Mayweather makes guys miss a lot more, and it's shown in his compubox numbers relative to Whitaker's, the difference is Mayweather doesn't bounce around the ring like Tigger to accentuate his opponent missing, he's content standing in the pocket and potshotting after a miss.

Drug addiction had a lot to do with that and he took more punishment over his last couple of fights than he did in the rest of his fights combined.

Prime whitaker didn't take much of anything from anyone.

I'm not sure if Diamond ever saw enough of Whitaker because like SaadOffTheDeck just said "Prime whitaker didn't take much of anything from anyone"
Nobody and and I mean nobody ever dominated Whitaker, with the lone exception of Trinidad. And that was when Whitaker was not even 10% of his real self. His speech problems is due to the drugs not boxing.

"Drug addiction had a lot to do with that and he took more punishment over his last couple of fights than he did in the rest of his fights combined.

Prime whitaker didn't take much of anything from anyone." - Saad



It's not punches, Weapon, but rampant drug use, which has impacted on Whitaker's speech pattern. Also, Compubox can't tell you that, across their careers, Whitaker faced significantly stronger opposition, & fought until he was completely shot. Of course those numbers are going to favour Mayweather.

I've had access to much of Whitaker's career thanks to youtube and some choice dvds, and honestly, I think his evasiveness is at least a little overrated. He was incredibly evasive and awkward as hell, but many of those shots that he made appear as misses actually connected, just not very cleanly. He rolled with a lot of those shots so not many were especially clean on contact. He accentuated it with his own accuracy as well, so in comparison he was usually landing far more cleanly than his opponent, but his opposition still was landing in some manner. I'm not trying to dis Whitaker outright but I honestly don't buy into the fact that a greater legacy equals an automatic win for one fighter over another, hence my ability to imagine a scenario where the less accomplished Taylor could best the widely-heralded Whitaker, especially because I think Meldrick at least had the physical tools (handspeed particularly) available to get to Whitaker on a constant basis. Pernell was just so much faster than everyone on top of being evasive and awkward that he'd win on his evasive speed alone. Meldrick I think couldve gotten to him enough and outworked him close in my opinion.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:I've had access to much of Whitaker's career thanks to youtube and some choice dvds, and honestly, I think his evasiveness is at least a little overrated. He was incredibly evasive and awkward as hell, but many of those shots that he made appear as misses actually connected, just not very cleanly. He rolled with a lot of those shots so not many were especially clean on contact. He accentuated it with his own accuracy as well, so in comparison he was usually landing far more cleanly than his opponent, but his opposition still was landing in some manner. I'm not trying to dis Whitaker outright but I honestly don't buy into the fact that a greater legacy equals an automatic win for one fighter over another, hence my ability to imagine a scenario where the less accomplished Taylor could best the widely-heralded Whitaker, especially because I think Meldrick at least had the physical tools (handspeed particularly) available to get to Whitaker on a constant basis. Pernell was just so much faster than everyone on top of being evasive and awkward that he'd win on his evasive speed alone. Meldrick I think couldve gotten to him enough and outworked him close in my opinion.

You under-estimate the depth of Whitaker's bag of tricks.

Like the bulk of all truly great, all-time champions, he had more than one or two tools with which to get the job done. If he wasn't faster than his man, he'd find another way. Ring generalship, body-punching, & tie-ups would be but three ways he would close the gap on Taylor, if he lost the speed battle.

Really underestimating his strength. He had Chavez pretty badly hurt. Many fighters that people thought would swarm Whitaker didn't.

I had already assumed you have watched him from your comments. But he wasn't getting hit clean by any of them. Nothing close to overrated about Pea's ability to avoid punches.

You're correct that more accomplished doesn't guarantee victory and I like to see predictions off of styles. Just don't see how the style does Taylor any favors here. A slight speed advantage outweighs a fairly decisive edge in every other category? That's tough to agree with.

How is taylor going to outwork a fighter that throws more punches than he does?

Taylor would get real confused in there. You ever see his fight with Howard davis? Chances are pretty good that Whitaker's speed would bother Taylor more than the other way around. But it's almost a guarantee that Whitaker's mind would figure Mel out inside of ten minutes. it wasn't that complex of a puzzle to stick in front of an absolute genius.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Really underestimating his strength. He had Chavez pretty badly hurt. Many fighters that people thought would swarm Whitaker didn't.

I had already assumed you have watched him from your comments. But he wasn't getting hit clean by any of them. Nothing close to overrated about Pea's ability to avoid punches.

You're correct that more accomplished doesn't guarantee victory and I like to see predictions off of styles. Just don't see how the style does Taylor any favors here. A slight speed advantage outweighs a fairly decisive edge in every other category? That's tough to agree with.

How is taylor going to outwork a fighter that throws more punches than he does?

Taylor would get real confused in there. You ever see his fight with Howard davis? Chances are pretty good that Whitaker's speed would bother Taylor more than the other way around. But it's almost a guarantee that Whitaker's mind would figure Mel out inside of ten minutes. it wasn't that complex of a puzzle to stick in front of an absolute genius.

all good points, and good points made above about pea's bodypunching and strenght too

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Really underestimating his strength. He had Chavez pretty badly hurt. Many fighters that people thought would swarm Whitaker didn't.

I had already assumed you have watched him from your comments. But he wasn't getting hit clean by any of them. Nothing close to overrated about Pea's ability to avoid punches.

You're correct that more accomplished doesn't guarantee victory and I like to see predictions off of styles. Just don't see how the style does Taylor any favors here. A slight speed advantage outweighs a fairly decisive edge in every other category? That's tough to agree with.

How is taylor going to outwork a fighter that throws more punches than he does?

Taylor would get real confused in there. You ever see his fight with Howard davis? Chances are pretty good that Whitaker's speed would bother Taylor more than the other way around. But it's almost a guarantee that Whitaker's mind would figure Mel out inside of ten minutes. it wasn't that complex of a puzzle to stick in front of an absolute genius.

I agree 100% with this post. And for the record, I think Whitaker was robbed big time against Chavez. He put on a boxing clinic and dominated the fight for a clear win. When they declared the fight a draw I was in complete shock. Taylor is a notch below Whitaker in every department, except for the speed. However, Whitaker speed and accuracy is often underrated by many. He was an absolute genius in the ring, and that gives him a clear advantage over Taylor.