BoxRec

Would be up for this!

Me too if it's the summer and not too pricey.

MachoMan09 wrote:Other than an easy pay day, what will Vitali achieve by fighting Valuev? Vitali would take him apart and some may argue that that would put Haye's laborious victory into context. Why should Vitali be making an effort to send messages to Haye? It should be the other way around, surely.

Not as though there is much else out there though is it?

This would be awful on so many levels. Vitali would wreck him for a start.

this would of been alot bigger if it happend before haye v valuev, hayes show you can hurt valuev think vitali will win valuevs corner will pull him out

Strangely enough i think Valuev has a chance in this fight, maybe not much of one but i think he'll be alot more competitive then people think for at least the first half of the fight as he may have the size and reach to trouble Klitschko and stop him from dominating like he does his much smaller opponents.

It Will be interesting how he looks against a 6ft 8in Boxer rather then facing a 6ft fighter pecking at him and then running for all 12 rounds like Haye, Holyfield and Donald all pretty much did.

Also based on the Haye fight especially the first 11 rds, i certainly don't think he deserved to lose his title although he shouldn't have been the champion in the first place.

Will probably be an awful fight to watch but i'd still give it a watch as its the one's you least expect anything from that can be the good one's.

I'd take a fight between two top 5 fighters in any devision..... this is a good match.

stujones wrote:I'd take a fight between two top 5 fighters in any devision..... this is a good match.

Totally agree - it makes sense and there is a ton of local interest. The German promoters are canny enough to know that
homecrowd rivalries sell tickets and get TV exposure - our promoters have lost that art so it seems.

The only HW fighter that can trouble each other (or so it seems) are Haye, Vitali, Wladamir and Valuev. Two of them wont fight each other, so it doesnt leave much else does it.


EDIT: Povetkin too, maybe

MachoMan09 wrote:Come on, guys. Valuev is dire. He has no redeeming features, as a fighter. The sooner the lumbering oaf retires the better. People hark on about how he is quite mobile for a seven footer etc... He is not mobile at all. Check out the NBA to see mobile seven footers. He doesn't punch his weight, doesn't get involved in wars and has zero charisma. Heavyweight boxing is dead!

Tell you what though - there is an island full of Cubans who are going to revolutionise boxing real soon - think about the number of heavyweights of all colours who will tear a new one out of the current status quo once they are allowed to go the 30 or so miles to Miami - In fact Miami may become the new boxing epicentre as scores of 6ft plus, 220lbs heavyweights punch and salsa away around the ring.

When the wall came down and we had these Eastern Euros punching for pay - I was excited about the prospect - but they are as boring as fornicate - I think the Cubans will be a different proposition - lets hope so eh?

Same cubans who havent won olympic super heavyweight gold since 1992??

Personally I think they're viewed in the same sense as we view fighters of yesteryear. We rave about them, and think they're better than what they are / were.

Wales wrote:Same cubans who havent won olympic super heavyweight gold since 1992??

Personally I think they're viewed in the same sense as we view fighters of yesteryear. We rave about them, and think they're better than what they are / were.

Come on Wales - you know better than that.

When was it the last time an American won olympic super heavyweight gold?

1984!

Because a country doesn't go onto win an olympic gold in a paticular weight division - they must all be useless right?

The Cubans have natural fighting ability, they have flair, they have skill and in their amateur system - they will have tons of fighters suited to the pros - or do you really not think that is the case?

I believe their amateur system far surpasses that of other countries becuase instead of turning pro they carry on winning titles at the top level. Also, due to the countries political stance its easier for fighters to pursue the amateur dream as a way of stardom, wasnt kindelan a national hero? With the devolution of their current political system will some fighters fall away due to the need to put food on the table, and a more western trait of luxuries in their homes (i.e concentrate on a "proper job")? Will some turn pro too soon and waste fame and fortune (look at how solis turned out)?

Had Wladamir Klitchko not turned pro wouldnt he be far and away the best amateur super heavyweight on the planet? Of course he would.

Now dont get me wrong, anyone who does not respect the depth in cuban amateur boxing is a fool, but superior fighters they do not churn out. theyre skin, bone and attributes just like the rest of us. if they all turned pro world boxing will not be dominated by cuban world champions, just as it is not by any other nationality... however, we do live in hope as far as the heavies go.

Oh, and when was the last American (true) heavyweight champion? Unless we make a poor case for rahman.

Wales wrote:I believe their amateur system far surpasses that of other countries becuase instead of turning pro they carry on winning titles at the top level. Also, due to the countries political stance its easier for fighters to pursue the amateur dream as a way of stardom, wasnt kindelan a national hero? With the devolution of their current political system will some fighters fall away due to the need to put food on the table, and a more western trait of luxuries in their homes (i.e concentrate on a "proper job")? Will some turn pro too soon and waste fame and fortune (look at how solis turned out)?

Had Wladamir Klitchko not turned pro wouldnt he be far and away the best amateur super heavyweight on the planet? Of course he would.

Now dont get me wrong, anyone who does not respect the depth in cuban amateur boxing is a fool, but superior fighters they do not churn out. theyre skin, bone and attributes just like the rest of us. if they all turned pro world boxing will not be dominated by cuban world champions, just as it is not by any other nationality... however, we do live in hope as far as the heavies go.

But is like everywhere else, the Cubans are hamstrung by the way the AIBA score fights which favour the Eastern European system of boxing rather than the natural Cuban style of boxing which has been around on the islands for over a 100 years - despite this - the Cubans still excel at amateur boxing - the fact that they haven't won an olympic gold at super heavyweight is a strawman argument - if we go back to the United States - only two of their olympic gold medal winners in the heaviest division went on to win a world title as a pro - despite this - the Americans have produced the best heavyweights for nearly a century and most of the best American heavyweights fell short as amateurs. (some of them well short!)

The best boxers in Cuba that are suited to the pro game will be fighters we have never heard of - thats not to say Olandier Solis won't be a hit, I think time will tell if the top amateurs in that country will become tops pros - however - I think there are a load of fighters we don't even know about who are going to revolutionize boxing. Just like the Eastern Euros have done in their own crappy way.

Time will tell

All I can think of is the song from the little mermaid "the seaweed is allways greener..."

Wales wrote: Oh, and when was the last American (true) heavyweight champion? Unless we make a poor case for rahman.

Well, it was the last American super heavyweight olympic champion (pre 1984 - heavyweight champion) and it was Tyrell Biggs. The fact that the only two US olympians to win the gold in the heaviest weight division who went on to win a world heavyweight title were Joe Frazier and George Foreman did not mean that American heavyweight boxing suffered in any way between 1896-1983! They sorta dominated it.

Wales wrote:Time will tell

All I can think of is the song from the little mermaid "the seaweed is allways greener..."

I'm confident!

Vitali should win this handily imo to powerful and too good a ring general

how will vitali handle fighting someone bigger than himself?

is vitali looking to cash out into fish face, trout pout retirement?

i'm already bored talking about vitali and his brother, those 2 tedious if effective fencers.

give it another year and we'll have exciting fights involving talented guys like povetkin, haye, adamek, chambers and boytsov, for the titles.

Wales wrote:Same cubans who havent won olympic super heavyweight gold since 1992??

Personally I think they're viewed in the same sense as we view fighters of yesteryear. We rave about them, and think they're better than what they are / were.

There have only been 7 Superheavyweight champions though. No country has won more than 1 (unless Lewis's nationality is looked upon differently). In the same period Cuba have won 4 heavyweight golds. They also won the last 4 golds before the division was split.

Thats 9 out of the last 18 available. With 2 golds and 2 bronze medals out of 6 Olympic competitions since Sydney 2000. The only nation who can match this is Russia with 2 golds and 1 silver since Sydney.

The tide may be turning towards the Russians slightly, but the Cubans are still showing they are very compatent in the amatures.

Six years ago Vitali Klitschko pounded Britain’s Danny Williams in eight rounds in Las Vegas in defence of his WBC heavyweight title. Unbelievably, the 36-year-old Williams is still plodding along, still the British heavyweight champion, while Klitschko still has ‘bad intentions’ for a British heavyweight, the quick, cocky, charismatic, heavy handed David Haye, who guarantees a ‘real’ challenge to the proud Klitschko.
To prove it, Klitschko now seeks to defend against the man Haye trounced in his very last fight: Russia’s Nikolai Valuev. Talk is Klitschko will face the giant Valuev - all seven foot of him – on May 29 in Germany. If the Ukrainian, no midget himself, can finish off the 23-stone Valuev inside 12 rounds, he has put one over ‘the enemy’. Haye could only outscore Valuev over 12 in Germany in November, although he did wobble Valuev in the final frame. Yes, bragging rights still count for something in the 21st century, particularly among the egotistical heavyweights, or the boring old dinosaurs, whichever way you look at the big boys.
The brash, egotistical Haye has clearly ‘got to’ the boring Klitschko brothers, Vitali and Wladimir, since moving up to heavy just recently and winning the WBA title (from Valuev) within two fights. He walks the walk (and talks the talk) better than any of Klitschko’s rivals – in fact he is their only rival, now he holds the major WBA belt. Vitali holds the WBC belt; Wladimir, the IBF & WBO. Confusing, I know, but these are the only four world belts that mean anything in boxing and the Klitschkos and the 29-year-old Haye smell ‘unification’ in a division devoid of an obvious No. 1. Haye, who proved himself the best cruiserweight in the world, plans to do precisely the same at heavyweight and wants everyone to know it.
This has niggled Wladimir, which in turn niggles older brother Vitali, now a creaking 38, his 6ft 7½ins frame bending a little. Vitali still stands over four inches taller than Haye and weighs around 35 pounds heavier (at 250 pounds), but heavyweight boxing has never been about size - think of Valuev or, better still, the emerging Mike Tyson - it is about talent. The quick, smart, hurtful Haye possesses that talent. He virtually ‘played’ with Valuev three months ago, picking him off throughout, although a few more shots, here and there, would not have gone amiss. Nevertheless, his speed offset the lumbering Valuev, and the slow, muscle-bound Klitschkos also fall into the big lumbering variety.
I am being harsh. Vitali has a chin of iron, and Wladimir has improved immeasurably from the man who once regularly and spectacularly ran out of gas. Frankly, Haye’s own chin and stamina remain in question. He went down a few times at cruiserweight (three times, in fact) and ran out of gas at the weight against a 40-year-old Carl Thompson in 2004, after hammering the living daylights out of Thompson for a few rounds, which remains his only loss. Like Wladimir, the Londoner learned from the bitter losing experience, switching to above sea level for training, namely the Kyrenian mountains in northern Cyprus or “Benn’s Mountain” in Tenerife, and the result was soon obvious.
Haye opened up brilliantly in the ninth round to finish Italy’s rugged Giacobbe Fragomeni, blood pouring from a terrible gash over his left eye, climbed off the floor to overwhelm French star Jean-Marc Mormeck in seven thrilling rounds in Paris and floored heavyweight ‘gatekeeper’ Monte Barrett five times on the way to a superb five-round win in London in November 2008, never once threatening to blow up over the same distance he had blown up against Thompson. He went the full championship 12 with Valuev, of course, although, to make the point again, his workrate was low and one hopes he was simply wary of the huge size and weight of Valuev that night, 99 pounds heavier than our man. Haye also hurt his right hand in the early going.
As regards his power, Haye’s 23-1 (21) record speaks for itself, but perhaps his biggest-hitting achievement is that he does it ‘his way’, with trainer Adam Booth. He knew from an early age he had the punch to forsake the big British promoters and their long, dull, undermatched approach to building and moving prospects, so he essentially matched himself, bypassed the British cruiserweight title and needed 45 seconds to win the European title at the weight against Russian southpaw Alexander Gurov.
Barrett and Valuev soon followed.
Next, Haye will almost certainly break down veteran John Ruiz in the first defence of his WBA heavyweight title, a regrettable defence he is forced to make because Ruiz, a stinker of an opponent twice beaten by Valuev, is the mandatory. The Klitschkos won’t go anywhere near Ruiz, by the way.
Then he will hunt down those brothers, one by one.

vitali is far from lumbering, sure, he's a big man and slower than haye, but for his size he throws a lot of shots.

you seem to be rather harsh on vitali, he hardly looked to be creaking last time out, against a very negative opponent with quick hands and feet.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:vitali is far from lumbering, sure, he's a big man and slower than haye, but for his size he throws a lot of shots.

you seem to be rather harsh on vitali, he hardly looked to be creaking last time out, against a very negative opponent with quick hands and feet.

what he said, Vitali is a big man in size only i noticed against Arreola that he likes to drop his hands and lean back to evade punches and counter punch, and to call someone who throws nearly 100 punches around "lumbering" is stupid.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:vitali is far from lumbering, sure, he's a big man and slower than haye, but for his size he throws a lot of shots.

you seem to be rather harsh on vitali, he hardly looked to be creaking last time out, against a very negative opponent with quick hands and feet.

I agree.

No one should mention the Johnson fight if they are trying to strengthen their argument that Vitali is slowing down. I have seen this brought up countless times, not necessarily on this thread but countless others.

Not only did Vitali dominate virtually every second of the fight, but he threw over 1000 punches and hardly broke a sweat. Johnson put up one of the most negative performances in heavyweight championship history. His only goal was to survive. When you have an awkward but defensively talented boxer only "fighting" to go rounds it is next to impossible to look impressive.

Punch stats show that Johnson only landed 5 power punches in the entire fight. According to some sources that is the lowest amount of punches landed in the last 25 years of heavyweight championship boxing.

So Vitali puts on a dominating performance and people slag him off, yet Haye squeaks by Valuev (who is not skilled defensively like Johnson and presented a wide open target) throwing 10 punches a round and now they like his chances more? Makes no sense to me.

People went easy on Froch because of Dirrell's negativity and a very strong case can be made that he lost that fight. Vitali on the other wins every round with ease against a far more negative opponent and now he's starting to show his age. Funny how that works.