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Might not have been as successful , the reason he was so powerful was because of the way he threw his punches from low hands stance etc

We will never know

He was Pretty good as it was though so i wouldnt have changed anything
apart from maybe his Training that he put in nearer the end

pacmans19 wrote:He has the reflexes, power, speed, accuracy etc. Natural talents. He lacked the fundamentals. If he had walked into a different gym and been taught to fight as a conventional fighter from the start... could he have been even better than he was??

The reason why he was successful was because of how he was.....something different....and gazmac81 is spot on about his training towards the end

The very fact that he was unconventional was the reason for his success.
To suggest he could have been better by being trained "conventionally" is a major sleight on Wincobank - one of the best.
Do you seriously think that the Wincobank Gym doesn't work on the basics ?
Naz was unique.

SOUTHPAW wrote:The reason why he was successful was because of how he was.....something different....and gazmac81 is spot on about his training towards the end

X2

twenty six wrote: Naz was unique.

Yep that what made him so good...

Naz with Freddie Roach

pacmans19 wrote:He has the reflexes, power, speed, accuracy etc. Natural talents. He lacked the fundamentals. If he had walked into a different gym and been taught to fight as a conventional fighter from the start... could he have been even better than he was??

He could have been better than he was if he had been more disciplined after he got it all. Nothing to do with the training, etc.

Ah with Nas, I'll always wonder what if he had stayed disciplined. I'm convinced the Nas that outclassed Robinson would have beaten Barrera. But all "if and buts."

black panther wrote:Ah with Nas, I'll always wonder what if he had stayed disciplined. I'm convinced the Nas that outclassed Robinson would have beaten Barrera.

I'm with you there.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

black panther wrote:Ah with Nas, I'll always wonder what if he had stayed disciplined. I'm convinced the Nas that outclassed Robinson would have beaten Barrera.

I'm with you there.

Me too but MAB improved a lot after the Jones defeats

naz's greatness came from his speed, his power and his ability to throw power shots from unorthodox and unusual angles. he punched like a middleweight, ha had very thick legs, this helped.

with a conventional training regime, he would have not gone as far as he did. i can say that with relative confidence.

To be fair to Naz,he was a world class fighter.He would fight anyone,anytime,anywhere.....

mickey1975 wrote:To be fair to Naz,he was a world class fighter.He would fight anyone,anytime,anywhere.....

apart from his wbo mandatory marquez.

oh yeah and erik morales. :>

who won the 1st barrera fight remember.

Big mistake not fighting Morales. He would have beat him in my opinion.I'm sorry but the amount of target he would hav offerd I think Naz would have laid him out

If he fought like a conventional fighter he would have more strings to his bow. Nothing wrong with being a conventional puncher, didn't do Arguello & Hearns any harm but I guess they had physical advantages

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

pacmans19 wrote:He has the reflexes, power, speed, accuracy etc. Natural talents. He lacked the fundamentals. If he had walked into a different gym and been taught to fight as a conventional fighter from the start... could he have been even better than he was??

He could have been better than he was if he had been more disciplined after he got it all. Nothing to do with the training, etc.

Naz was his own worse enemy in the end.

He isn't the first fighter to lack discipline and he certainly won't be the last.

Shame, but he provided us with some pretty special moments and still achieved a hell of a lot. Just goes to show how talented some think he was, claiming he actually underachieved.

Just thinking of what could have been burns me up with resentment and discomfort.

Thinking of Naz in 1997 taking on morales, barrera,Mayweather,Coralles,Collins,Marquez, Chris John,Freitas,Tapia, Ayala.........he ripped my heart out...ripped my fornicating heart out


Please do not post any more threads of this nature I find them deeply disturbing.

Its's difficult to say wheather he would of been any better. My feeling is that Brendan did a great job and Naz achieved more than most boxers could dream of. Despite All of his of this Naz is often seen as an underachiever. However, from what I can gather this is more to do with his lack of discipline rather than his trainer.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:To be fair to Naz,he was a world class fighter.He would fight anyone,anytime,anywhere.....

apart from his wbo mandatory marquez.

oh yeah and erik morales. :>

who won the 1st barrera fight remember.

Or Freddie Norwood or Luis Espinso (largely thought of as the #1 featherweight at the time of Hamed vs Robinson).

To his credit he did say regarding Morales "I want to fight the guy people thought won the fight" (Barrera vs Morales 1). So I credit him there.

Think Marco would have always been too good for him.

Well with the athleticism and natural physical ability he already had, i don't think it would have done him any harm had he been trying to emulate other superior reflexive fighters, rather than a flawed ali influenced style like Herol Graham.

someone should have said fornicate that guy, and got him watching Duran, napoles, early Wilfredo Gomez, Benitez, Conteh etc...superbly athletic fighters that were all well schooled and could be learned from in a far more beneficial way than some guy dancing around with his hands at his hips pulling his head straight back from punches.

Maybe Naz would have been as successful if he was trained to be a conventional fighter, but the fact he was so awkward was a big asset of his game!

In terms of MAB, people have said the Naz who beat Robinson would have beaten Barrera. I'm not so sure! No disrespect to Robinson, but MAB was above that level. Naz thought he was going KO Barrera & he did not have any other game plan or thoughts. Meanwhile, MAB trained for the biggest fight of his career & he not only schooled Naz, but he roughed him up aswell!

Hamed had no answer, did not know how to adjust or make changes!

stujones wrote:
Or Freddie Norwood or Luis Espinso (largely thought of as the #1 featherweight at the time of Hamed vs Robinson).

My memory won't be as good as yours Stu but I can't remember that. Anyway, regardless, do you think either of those would have beaten Hamed at that time?

Luis Espinosa was ranked #1 by BM the month before Hamed vs Robinson - Steve ranked 6th. Then Hamed leap frogs everyone to get ranked #1. Understandable given the manner of the performance - but Espinosa was considered better than Boom Boom Johnson at the time.

I think Hamed would have out done Espinosa no problems. Probably Norwood also, but he was a very talented and underated... . you don't beat JMM if you aint any good.

I'm not going to start debating Hamed's legacy, there a far far more fighters whose records we could critique than Hamed's who did, in his all to short prime, fight some of the best 9 stoners out there. However, no one could deny beating Espinosa or Norwood would have been above any of of the fighters who he did beat.

black panther wrote:Ah with Nas, I'll always wonder what if he had stayed disciplined. I'm convinced the Nas that outclassed Robinson would have beaten Barrera. But all "if and buts."

VERY TRUE - GREAT SHAME BUT THE MONEY ETC TOOK AWAY HIS DESIRE.

Oscar Suarez:
To be honest, I don't know what it was." Asked if he thought Hamed still wanted to fight, Suarez was blunt."Honestly, no," he said."Naz has a big ego. The Naz I trained for [Paul] Ingle and Bungu would've fought Barrera again by now.

If I ever see that fire in his eyes again, I know he'll destroy Barrera."

Interesting article...Oscar reckons Naz hit harder than Freitas

http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/0305/three.htm

stujones wrote:Luis Espinosa was ranked #1 by BM the month before Hamed vs Robinson - Steve ranked 6th. Then Hamed leap frogs everyone to get ranked #1. Understandable given the manner of the performance - but Espinosa was considered better than Boom Boom Johnson at the time.

I think Hamed would have out done Espinosa no problems. Probably Norwood also, but he was a very talented and underated... . you don't beat JMM if you aint any good.

I'm not going to start debating Hamed's legacy, there a far far more fighters whose records we could critique than Hamed's who did, in his all to short prime, fight some of the best 9 stoners out there. However, no one could deny beating Espinosa or Norwood would have been above any of of the fighters who he did beat.

good post, i think stylewise Norwood would pose interesting problems for even the 'best' Naz.