BoxRec

Let’s analyze both of them records:

Duran
Best wins for me was Davey Moore and Iran Barkley. Extraordinary wins in my opinion because Duran really show that he was an all-time great p4p.
Best win against a quality opponent – of course, Sugar Ray Leonard
Other quality opponents: Esteban De Jesus (2x), Carlos Palomino, Ken Buchanan, and Pipino Cuevas.
Notable Loses: Esteban De Jesus, Sugar Ray Leonard (2x), Wilfredo Benitez, Tomas Hearns, and Marvin Hagler.

Now Pac:
Best wins in my opinion are Miguel Cotto and Joshua Clottey. Same as Duran.
Best win against a quality opponent: Marco A. Barrera (2x)
Other quality wins: Juan M. Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya, Erik Morales (2x), and Ricky Hatton.
Notable Loses: Erik Morales.

Also, let’s analyze this based on what weight class did they started and what weight class did they finish. Of course, that is assuming that Pac last weight class is 147.

Duran first fight was at 118 according to Boxrec. Went up to 174 but was not really good above 160.
Pac first fight was at 107 according to Boxrec. Highest 147 but solid at that weight class.
I’m going to use the cutoff point at 160 for Duran because he really had no business above that weight.
So for Duran that is a difference of 42 (160 – 118) pounds and for Pac 40 (147-107) pounds. So it is conceivable to assume that if Pac started at 118 he too could have fought as a high as 160.

In my honest opinion Pac has done enough to be ranked along-side Duran. How about you guys, do you rank Pac ahead of Duran or below?

I definitely disagree about your choices for best opponents . . .I think beating a skilled ATG opponent is much more impressive than simply beating rated guys who are bigger than you. Barkely isn't even in the class of a peak Leonard or Buchanan.

That said, let's go to the comparison

Above 135, Duran has victories over Leonard, Palomino, Cuevas, Moore and Barkely.

Pacquao has Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, and Clottey. When all is said and done Pac may definitely have more top quality victories above lightweight but only a victory over Floyd could move him past that big big win over Leonard. Pac also hasn't lost at welter but of course Duran in the early 80s not only fought some ATG junior middles and middles (Hagler, Hearns, Benitez) but his infamous lack of discipline caught up to him for some major upset losses (Laing, Sims)


Now at below the bigger men, Pacquao has wins over Sasakul (underated IMO), Barrera 2X, Marquez (D and W), Morales (2X) and Larios (well above his peak weight). Lone loss at his feather and superfeather peak is to Morales

Duran has Buchanan, Marcel, Kobayashi, DeJesus, and Mamby. Lone loss is to DeJesus. Looking this over I'm surprised it's so close. Morales IMO is a better fighter than DeJesus but Buchanan and possibly Marcel I would rank over Barrera and Marquez.

IMO Duran has the better resume but it's closer than I would've initially thought.

Good run-down, Dempsey. I agree that Pacquiao is great, but has not done anything to equal the Leonard victory. In my opinion if Pacquiao beats Mayweather, he is just about level with Duran, which for me, puts him in the all-time top 10 P4P.

Interesting comparison, and good rundowns, I think Pac has earned a place alongside Duran, I don't think Mayweather deserves to be compared to the great Sugar Ray Leonard however.

dempseyfire wrote:I definitely disagree about your choices for best opponents . . .I think beating a skilled ATG opponent is much more impressive than simply beating rated guys who are bigger than you. Barkely isn't even in the class of a peak Leonard or Buchanan.

Duran was in his late 30's against Barkley, and far from his optimal weight. While it doesn't make Barkley any better, the win in such circumstances is much more impresive IMHO.

Love PAC and I think he beats Mayweather, which will be a great win. But Mayweather is 33 and I am not sure he's either at his prime as a fighter or at his prime weight. PAC at 31 may be in his prime because he seems most dominant at 140-147. That's one of the things that makes his run so remarkable, that he has been fighting one big-time fight after another for six or seven years now, from 126 to 147.

IMO, Duran was at his best as a lightweight in the 1970s. That's when he was most dominant. He beat a SRL who was 24, coming off a KO win over the great Wilfredo Benitez and a year away from, IMO, his biggest year (KOs of the underrated Kalue and HOFer Hearns in a classic).

In the end. PAC will join Duran in the HOF and likely be thought of, rightfully, as the fighter of his era

I wasn't trying to say a victory over Floyd equals to Duran's victory over Leonard. Really there isn't anyone Pac could fight right now to equal that win. But after Leonard and Palomino Duran's victory ledger at 147 and above gets rather thin . . I mean really Barkely was a dangerous but very crude guy and Moore was just a hyped prospect who turned out to be a bust. If Pac gets a 147 and above ledger with Mayweather Jr, past-prime Oscar, Cotto, Hatton and Clottey I'd say that's equal overall to wins over Leonard, Palomino, Barkely and a way past-it Cuevas.

I still have Duran over Pacquiao, but if Pac Man ever takes a clear victory vs Mayweather he may surge ahead. On the other hand if Floyd wins clear victories over Mosley and Pacquiao, I'd say he becomes the best of the 3.

dempseyfire wrote:I wasn't trying to say a victory over Floyd equals to Duran's victory over Leonard. Really there isn't anyone Pac could fight right now to equal that win. But after Leonard and Palomino Duran's victory ledger at 147 and above gets rather thin . . I mean really Barkely was a dangerous but very crude guy and Moore was just a hyped prospect who turned out to be a bust. If Pac gets a 147 and above ledger with Mayweather Jr, past-prime Oscar, Cotto, Hatton and Clottey I'd say that's equal overall to wins over Leonard, Palomino, Barkely and a way past-it Cuevas.

I do agree that there isn’t anyone that Pac could fight now that could equal Leonard win. However, Duran win against Leonard was very close, and let’s not forget that he was really embarrased on the second one. Pac has gotten better and better over the years and it’s dominating true welters in atonishing fashion. He is not simply winning, he is totally dominating these naturally bigger than him fighters. Now I’m going to wait for the result of Mosley/Mayweather because at this point I’m not totally sure that Mayweather is going to defeat Mosley. I guess it depends on which Mosley is going to show up (a rusty one or in good shape). Then Pac should fight the winner and if he wins then I’ll rank him ahead of Duran. At this point for me head to head Duran and Pac is pick’em fight. Before I always thought that there was no way that Pac could’ve defeated Duran, but after watching Pac demolishing Hatton, Cotto, De La Hoya, and Clottey I change my mind.

I rank Duran win over Barkley one of the best for me for the following reasons:
1. Duran was past his best and in his late 30’s reaching 40.
2. Barkley was prime coming off a huge win over Hearns in which he really show his heart.
3. I remember watching this fight and thinking damn Duran looks like a midge agiant Barkley (Barkley was around 6’1’ and Duran 5’7”).
4. To me this was more than just beating a bigger man, this was a huge upset in my opinion. All odds were against Duran, but despite the odds he came on top.

Seamus wrote:I still have Duran over Pacquiao, but if Pac Man ever takes a clear victory vs Mayweather he may surge ahead. On the other hand if Floyd wins clear victories over Mosley and Pacquiao, I'd say he becomes the best of the 3.

How does that happen? Floyd's current resume is not in the same league as Duran's or Manny's. What, 3 wins over future HOFers in Castillo, Marquez (way out of his normal weight) and Oscar (and Castillo is a maybe), and the latter I thought he lost. Even beating Mosley and Pac doesn't push him above those two.
Mosley at this point IMO is getting vastly over-rated in his current incarnation b/c of a great style matchup for him in Margarito. He's still 39 years old and left his prime around 2003.

Pac already has a far superior resume to Floyd . . . deserved HOFers Sasakul, Barrera, Marquez (at his peak), Morales, and Oscar. And his welter resume not only has far better opponents but is much more impressive considering Pac is a natural super feather force-feeding himself to fight the big guys whereas Floyd in his 30s has grown into a natural, albeit small, welterweight.

Agreed. I would also contest that.

dempseyfire wrote:

Seamus wrote:I still have Duran over Pacquiao, but if Pac Man ever takes a clear victory vs Mayweather he may surge ahead. On the other hand if Floyd wins clear victories over Mosley and Pacquiao, I'd say he becomes the best of the 3.

How does that happen? Floyd's current resume is not in the same league as Duran's or Manny's. What, 3 wins over future HOFers in Castillo, Marquez (way out of his normal weight) and Oscar (and Castillo is a maybe), and the latter I thought he lost. Even beating Mosley and Pac doesn't push him above those two.
Mosley at this point IMO is getting vastly over-rated in his current incarnation b/c of a great style matchup for him in Margarito. He's still 39 years old and left his prime around 2003.

Pac already has a far superior resume to Floyd . . . deserved HOFers Sasakul, Barrera, Marquez (at his peak), Morales, and Oscar. And his welter resume not only has far better opponents but is much more impressive considering Pac is a natural super feather force-feeding himself to fight the big guys whereas Floyd in his 30s has grown into a natural, albeit small, welterweight.

And Moseley is nearly 40 and hasn't fought for over a year. And even if Floyd does beat Pac he is the bigger man. IMO it would be like an Arguello-Pryor comparison. Arguello is still rated by most as the greater fighter.

Floyd's a great fighter but I'm not really sure he's good enough to be at the level of Leonard or Hearns and he definitely doesn't have the CV even if he does beat Shane and Pac.

Mosley should be judged by his last performance, not his age and Pacquiao may be the best pfp in the world right now. If Mayweather were to defeat both of them, it would give an incredible boost to his legacy.

Seamus wrote: Mosley should be judged by his last performance, not his age and Pacquiao may be the best pfp in the world right now. If Mayweather were to defeat both of them, it would give an incredible boost to his legacy.

What about the one before that?

Mosley got a great win over a perfect style matchup (Margarito) bereft of his most potent weapon (loaded gloves). He is not even remotely the fighter he once was, and I suspect Mayweather will prove this by beating him comfortably.

hitman09 wrote:

Seamus wrote: Mosley should be judged by his last performance, not his age and Pacquiao may be the best pfp in the world right now. If Mayweather were to defeat both of them, it would give an incredible boost to his legacy.

What about the one before that?

Mosley got a great win over a perfect style matchup (Margarito) bereft of his most potent weapon (loaded gloves). He is not even remotely the fighter he once was, and I suspect Mayweather will prove this by beating him comfortably.

Bingo.

Duran rates higher than Manny, but it isn't out of his reach. Funny thing about Pac is, his best work was done long ago. LOL at Clottey and Cotto being his two best wins. Over Morales, MAB & JMM? That's madness, Clottey didn't even come to fight.

I have Duran in my top 5, Pac probably would be the top 30 or so. Not that far off.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

Seamus wrote: Mosley should be judged by his last performance, not his age and Pacquiao may be the best pfp in the world right now. If Mayweather were to defeat both of them, it would give an incredible boost to his legacy.

What about the one before that?

Mosley got a great win over a perfect style matchup (Margarito) bereft of his most potent weapon (loaded gloves). He is not even remotely the fighter he once was, and I suspect Mayweather will prove this by beating him comfortably.

Bingo.

Yes the one before Margarito, when he KO'd a fighter who fought his fight before that at 164! Sure Mayweather would've done better.

if pac either beats winner of mayweather/mosley and margarito or mayweather/mosley and paul williams, then he would edge roberto duran for me. doubt it because his next fight may be his last.

I HAVE A VERY HARD TIME COMPARING AN ACTIVE BOXER TO A
TRUE TOP 10 HALL OF FAMER.
i will admit pacman is an exciting fantastic fighter.he has so much
talent that he can compete way above his natural fighting weight.
i will not argue that when his career is over he is a shoe in 1st ballot
hall of famer.
but i would never compare his career while still active to a guy that
dominated the lightweight division and going 72-1 before moving up 2 divisions
to beat sugar ray leonard for the welter title.
i mean come on guys.duran was arguably the greatest lightweight in history

pac has accomplished way more in his career than i ever thought he would of

but then again in his prime fighting years he struggled with marquez and morales
then we have the steroid accusations,i am not trying to convince anyone he
is doing them.i am just saying he is doing nothing to stop the accusations

if pac retired today i would say he would finish in the top 30
if he beats mayweather i would move him to around 15

if he tests positive for drugs i would not bother rating him

They're all on something.

The only crime is getting caught.

Ezzard wrote:They're all on something.

The only crime is getting caught.

win if you can
lose if you must
but always always cheat

i think mayweather and mosley are up to something positive in the sport of boxing with the random testing i hope to see everyone that become a pro boxer exercise these type of testing only because their is so many different types of drugs that boxers (and every other sport) are taking. so i say have pacman and everyone that is stepping in the ring take the drug test. so that no one has and edge and every one are equal. the winner will be the one who train the hardest,focused,sacrifies,ect... but when it comes to the margo handwraps well you better have a good coner to make sure to see the opponents wraps their hands.

MEISINGER wrote:

Ezzard wrote:They're all on something.

The only crime is getting caught.

win if you can
lose if you must
but always always cheat

BEAST21 wrote:i think mayweather and mosley are up to something positive in the sport of boxing with the random testing i hope to see everyone that become a pro boxer exercise these type of testing only because their is so many different types of drugs that boxers (and every other sport) are taking. so i say have pacman and everyone that is stepping in the ring take the drug test. so that no one has and edge and every one are equal. the winner will be the one who train the hardest,focused,sacrifies,ect... but when it comes to the margo handwraps well you better have a good coner to make sure to see the opponents wraps their hands.

Wrong topic?

Pacquiao and Duran on an equal basis? first let me say that duran is levels above pacquiao. pacquiao's opponents like morales, barrera and marquez while hall of famers are also not on the same levels of duran's opponents. too many people make a big deal about pacquiao beating those three but pacquiao fought neither one of them when they were young and on their way up. all three were older and on their way down when he fought them. especially morales, morales was only about 70% of what he was in his prime when he beat pacquiao. what would a 100% prime morales do to pacquiao? and we know marquez beat pacquiao both times and he was much older than pacquiao. the first barrera fight was the only great win for pacquiao against this three.

and let's not even think today's welterweights can even compare to the welter's duran fought. you say "but pacquiao" started at 106? well, so what, duran started at 119 and fought all the way up to 174 and still beat his opponent at 46 years old. and every one of duran's opponents at welterweight and above was much younger than the 5'7" duran. in his prime, duran beat hall of famers, carlos palomino, pipino cuevas, sugar ray leonard and lost to close narrow decision to middleweight marvin hagler. he also lost to the great wilfred benitez and thomas hearns who were much superior to any welterweights of today with the exception of mosley and mayweather jr. which pacquiao has managed to duck.

sure, what pacquiao has done is great, he started out at 106 and has fought as heavy as 145? that's 39 Lbs.. on the other hand, duran started out at 119 and fought as heavy as 174...that's 57 Lbs. and beat his opponent at 46 years old. the heaviest duran fought in his career (while losing) was at 176 and lost to a 20-1 argentine fighter by close decision at 48 yo. oh, and guess what, duran never cherrypicked his opposition like pacquiao has. he never rematched fighters he beat before. he had a trilogy with esteban dejesus to settle their close deadlock. he rematched leonard to settle their deadlock. he never had a rematch with someone he easily beat like pacquiao ha with morales.

i know we are living in the moment but come on, either most of you are too ignorant to realize the superiority of duran or are too drunk with the pacquiao kool-aid.