BoxRec

I think that the Mike Tyson when he was trained by Kevin Rooney was a well disciplined fighter and I think that when Tyson broke away from him he went from being a great fighter to a good fighter boxing is mental to a certain degree providing you have the ability and I think a fighter has to be put in check so to speak and Rooney did that and he was the boss but when Tyson became the boss with his new ''yes men'' trainers that led to his demise.

I think you can make a clear distinction between the D'Amato/Rooney led Tyson, and everything after. The difference is pretty evident.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I think that the Mike Tyson when he was trained by Kevin Rooney was a well disciplined fighter and I think that when Tyson broke away from him he went from being a great fighter to a good fighter boxing is mental to a certain degree providing you have the ability and I think a fighter has to be put in check so to speak and Rooney did that and he was the boss but when Tyson became the boss with his new ''yes men'' trainers that led to his demise.

IT'S CALLED A COMMA!!!

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I think that the Mike Tyson when he was trained by Kevin Rooney was a well disciplined fighter and I think that when Tyson broke away from him he went from being a great fighter to a good fighter boxing is mental to a certain degree providing you have the ability and I think a fighter has to be put in check so to speak and Rooney did that and he was the boss but when Tyson became the boss with his new ''yes men'' trainers that led to his demise.

Trainers are important. Some boxers had the good fortune of having one trainer their entire career and some had several. However ultimately the responsibility for success and failure lies with the man in the center of the ring. IMHO, too much emphasis is placed on those who trained or managed Tyson and not on Tyson himself. They say prosperity conceals character and adversity reveals it. Mike Tyson never responded particularly well to adversity inside or outside the ring. But that's a flaw that is not unique to just him.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I think that the Mike Tyson when he was trained by Kevin Rooney was a well disciplined fighter and I think that when Tyson broke away from him he went from being a great fighter to a good fighter boxing is mental to a certain degree providing you have the ability and I think a fighter has to be put in check so to speak and Rooney did that and he was the boss but when Tyson became the boss with his new ''yes men'' trainers that led to his demise.

IT'S CALLED A COMMA!!!

It is called get lost and fast is this an English grammar class or a boxing forum

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I think that the Mike Tyson when he was trained by Kevin Rooney was a well disciplined fighter and I think that when Tyson broke away from him he went from being a great fighter to a good fighter boxing is mental to a certain degree providing you have the ability and I think a fighter has to be put in check so to speak and Rooney did that and he was the boss but when Tyson became the boss with his new ''yes men'' trainers that led to his demise.

IT'S CALLED A COMMA!!!

It is called get lost and fast is this an English grammar class or a boxing forum

It's called posting without embarassing yourself by making yourself look like an illiterate teenager. You obviously fail in this area.

hitman09 wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote: IT'S CALLED A COMMA!!!

It is called get lost and fast is this an English grammar class or a boxing forum

It's called posting without embarassing yourself by making yourself look like an illiterate teenager. You obviously fail in this area.

I don't want to add to the acrimomy in this thread but you spelled "embarrassing" wrong. It is a comon mistake though.

ThatOne wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote: It is called get lost and fast is this an English grammar class or a boxing forum

It's called posting without embarassing yourself by making yourself look like an illiterate teenager. You obviously fail in this area.

I don't want to add to the acrimomy in this thread but you spelled "embarrassing" wrong. It is a comon mistake though.

Fvck, I did. That makes two illiterate teenagers in this thread.

.....there is no rule on proper punctuation or spelling.....carry on gentlemen....no points deducted.

I think that Tyson would have lost to the guys that beat him with Rooney, Cus or the lord in his corner.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I think that the Mike Tyson when he was trained by Kevin Rooney was a well disciplined fighter and I think that when Tyson broke away from him he went from being a great fighter to a good fighter boxing is mental to a certain degree providing you have the ability and I think a fighter has to be put in check so to speak and Rooney did that and he was the boss but when Tyson became the boss with his new ''yes men'' trainers that led to his demise.

IT'S CALLED A COMMA!!!

It is called get lost and fast is this an English grammar class or a boxing forum

Of course, the stock-standard response. It is gammar nazi behaviour to notice a complete paragraph lacking commas --- because there is no such thing as a middle-ground, where basic English should be respected, right? Making that point, you may as well write in phonetics, & then complain people are being, "picky."

Well, let's get back on-topic. More excuses &, "But if," points for Tyson.

It's really quite astonishing to think of how young he was when he was at the height of his reign, especially when one considers that most heavyweights peak during their mid-to-late twenties (for me his best performance came in knocking out Larry Holmes, an underrated result and a feat that was never replicated despite Holmes boxing on well into his fifties).

Maybe that truncated period of greatness was all that was ever going to be squeezed out of someone with Tyson's emotional foibles. Both Teddy Atlas and Jose Torres have stated that even during his years as an up-and-comer, Tyson's behavioral traits were a fairly major cause for concern. Of course in those days his exploits never became the subject of public account but perhaps it was always just a matter of time before the self destruction button was pushed.

It is tempting to imagine what could have evolved from all of the raw potential that Tyson displayed in his early twenties but if he had been more naturally level headed and less combustable, it could be argued that he wouldn't have ever cultivated the savage style that made him such a massive attraction.

Mike had a very low in ring IQ. That was just who he was. His plan A was more than enough for most, but when it didn't work he didn't have an answer. Ironic that he and Oscar were arguably the most popular fighters of the last couple decades and neither of them really knew how to box or implement a fight plan.

Mike Tyson may have been one of most talented heavyweights in boxing history, but I think that he didn't have the burning desire to be the best, unlike Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes or Evander Holyfield. Yes, Holyfield's fighting style may not have pleased boxing fans, but he was willing to pay the price to prepare for his bouts.

If Tyson was hiring "yes-men" as his trainers, that shows conclusively that he wasn't willing to pay the price to be fully prepared when he stepped into the ring. That is one reason why he lost twice to Holyfield, a far less talented fighter.

I always thought that the turning point in Tyson's boxing career was when Jim Jacobs died. It is my belief that Jacobs insisted that Tyson have a demanding trainer.. It may be that Kevin Rooney wasn't the best trainer in the world, but Tyson was fully prepared for his bouts when being trained by him.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:Mike Tyson may have been one of most talented heavyweights in boxing history, but I think that he didn't have the burning desire to be the best, unlike Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes or Evander Holyfield. Yes, Holyfield's fighting style may not have pleased boxing fans, but he was willing to pay the price to prepare for his bouts.

If Tyson was hiring "yes-men" as his trainers, that shows conclusively that he wasn't willing to pay the price to be fully prepared when he stepped into the ring. That is one reason why he lost twice to Holyfield, a far less talented fighter.

I always thought that the turning point in Tyson's boxing career was when Jim Jacobs died. It is my belief that Jacobs insisted that Tyson have a demanding trainer.. It may be that Kevin Rooney wasn't the best trainer in the world, but Tyson was fully prepared for his bouts when being trained by him.

- Chuck Johnston

Holyfield's style eventually came to thrill audiences. Thrill them, positively.

I was confused by that statement as well. Evander is still entertaining if somebody stands and trades with him. While he shouldn't be fighting and it's an indictment of the Heavyweight division more than rousing praise of the fight...but Holyfield/Savarese was one of the better Heavyweight fights in recent memory.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I was confused by that statement as well. Evander is still entertaining if somebody stands and trades with him. While he shouldn't be fighting and it's an indictment of the Heavyweight division more than rousing praise of the fight...but Holyfield/Savarese was one of the better Heavyweight fights in recent memory.

My presumption is he is speaking of Tyson's heyday, in the immediate aftermath of which, it's true people shunned Holyfield.

In the end, though, I would consider Holyfield at least as exciting to watch (obviously, for entirely different reasons) as Tyson ever was. At least as exciting.

People thought he couldn't beat tyson, but Holyfield/Dokes and Holyfield/Qawi were more exciting and compelling than anything Mike ever took part in.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:People thought he couldn't beat tyson, but Holyfield/Dokes and Holyfield/Qawi were more exciting and compelling than anything Mike ever took part in.

& yet, the knockout punch will always draw them in.

True enough, they learned later that balls mean more sometimes. I just don't recall anyone complaining about Evander's style in his younger days.

Chuck1052 wrote:Mike Tyson may have been one of most talented heavyweights in boxing history, but I think that he didn't have the burning desire to be the best, unlike Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes or Evander Holyfield. Yes, Holyfield's fighting style may not have pleased boxing fans, but he was willing to pay the price to prepare for his bouts.

If Tyson was hiring "yes-men" as his trainers, that shows conclusively that he wasn't willing to pay the price to be fully prepared when he stepped into the ring. That is one reason why he lost twice to Holyfield, a far less talented fighter.

I always thought that the turning point in Tyson's boxing career was when Jim Jacobs died. It is my belief that Jacobs insisted that Tyson have a demanding trainer.. It may be that Kevin Rooney wasn't the best trainer in the world, but Tyson was fully prepared for his bouts when being trained by him.

- Chuck Johnston

Excellent post. Can you imagine the heights Tyson might have reached if Jim Jacobs hadn't died?

While Evander Holyfield could be an exciting fighter, I don't think that he enthralled the crowds with his fighting style like Mike Tyson did in his prime. Moreover, there were times when Holyfield did what he had to do to win bouts, even if it meant alienating fans.

I want to add that I do not think that Tyson was a coward. No individual who has had success in the ring could be one. I will also point out that Tyson took quite a bit of punishment in his bout with Buster Douglas. But it was evident that Tyson was ill-prepared for that bout, getting hit with many punches which he usually blocked or slipped during his prime years.

- Chuck Johnston

Tyson didn't fight anyone during his prime year who threw punches at him like Douglas did that night, except perhaps Tillis, who wasn't as large or mobile as Douglas that night.

I guess Tysons prime years were age 21-22?

The Great John L wrote:Tyson didn't fight anyone during his prime year who threw punches at him like Douglas did that night, except perhaps Tillis, who wasn't as large or mobile as Douglas that night.

I guess Tysons prime years were age 21-22?

Pretty convenient for Tyson's fans. I never bought it.