BoxRec

Sorru guys was a bit confused on sat, the second knockdown when david head ruiz back of head it was counted a knockdown then a point was taken off is that right? and if thats the case it shudnt have been a knockdown as it was a foul? and if ruiz wanted to do a direll and stay down he would have won by dq yeah?

Thats a good question...

Haye was very lucky he wasn't DQ'd as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th knockdowns were shots to the back of the head which are violations in professional boxing.

you can see that here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPFWJct7JlU

The Ref was terrible and as you point out gave Ruiz the 10 count but then deducted a point from Haye too.

Had the ref not counted for KD's 2,3 and 4 and counted them as Fouls which they were, would Ruiz have stayed down and tried to win by DQ...i think that could have been a possibility.

In a way the ref being poor in terms of him not calling fouls stopped the fight from ending in a farce by Ruiz staying down from a rabbit punch.

It was crazy, how can you count someone then take a point away from the other guy. If the ref saw it as a foul he should not have counted and given Ruiz time to recover.

jonny wrote:It was crazy, how can you count someone then take a point away from the other guy. If the ref saw it as a foul he should not have counted and given Ruiz time to recover.

exactly and if ruiz wanted to he could have stayed down and got the win and the belt yeah? but unlike direll he got on with it, they rabbit punches are dangerous shots and can cause long term damage,

The ref botched the second knock down in the first round. If it was a foul (which it clearly was), obviously there should have been no count and Ruiz should have been given five minutes to recover. If the ref had properly done that Ruiz could have played it up and gotten Haye disqualified, but given that the ref administered a count for some reason he would have been counted out if he tried that.

What if the ref had counted him out he couldn't then go and disqualify haye.
And again if he had reached the count of 10 then Haye would have won on a foul

jonny wrote:What if the ref had counted him out he couldn't then go and disqualify haye.
And again if he had reached the count of 10 then Haye would have won on a foul

Am sure the ref will be reviewd was a bad display, fair play to ruiz he soaked a lot up and got on with it,

jonny wrote:It was crazy, how can you count someone then take a point away from the other guy. If the ref saw it as a foul he should not have counted and given Ruiz time to recover.

i think the ref counted because it was not the back of the head shot that knocked ruiz down...the cheap shot landed afterwards. therefore he was right to call the knockdown, and right to deduct the point(s) for a foul that occured after the knockdown punch landed.

Tell you what, though, whatever you think about the rabbit punches, that first knockdown was sweet as sugar. Using head movement to sway away from five punches from in a row, each from a new angle, circling away and knocking down the opponent with a fast, smooth as silk one two is something special. Is there another fighter above 168 able to do that at the top level?

(OK, heavyweights, relative to other weights are awful, but at heavyweight, Ruiz is top class)

rhino222 wrote:

jonny wrote:It was crazy, how can you count someone then take a point away from the other guy. If the ref saw it as a foul he should not have counted and given Ruiz time to recover.

i think the ref counted because it was not the back of the head shot that knocked ruiz down...the cheap shot landed afterwards. therefore he was right to call the knockdown, and right to deduct the point(s) for a foul that occured after the knockdown punch landed.

Good shout

Haye got the point deducted for hitting him on the back of the head when he was hung over the ropes - but it counted as a knockdown because if the ropes hadnt been there Ruiz would have been flat on his face before haye even threw the illegal punch.

jBacca wrote:

rhino222 wrote:

jonny wrote:It was crazy, how can you count someone then take a point away from the other guy. If the ref saw it as a foul he should not have counted and given Ruiz time to recover.

i think the ref counted because it was not the back of the head shot that knocked ruiz down...the cheap shot landed afterwards. therefore he was right to call the knockdown, and right to deduct the point(s) for a foul that occured after the knockdown punch landed.

Good shout

Exactly what I thought, the only thing is though what if Ruiz hadn't beat the count? Not because of the first shot that caused the knock down but the rabbit punch that landed just as Ruiz was going down. I don't think he should have counted really.

demolitiondaley wrote:

jBacca wrote:

rhino222 wrote: i think the ref counted because it was not the back of the head shot that knocked ruiz down...the cheap shot landed afterwards. therefore he was right to call the knockdown, and right to deduct the point(s) for a foul that occured after the knockdown punch landed.

Good shout

Exactly what I thought, the only thing is though what if Ruiz hadn't beat the count? Not because of the first shot that caused the knock down but the rabbit punch that landed just as Ruiz was going down. I don't think he should have counted really.

Maybe the point deduction was an after thought to even the score fairly so the 10-8 round became effectively a 9-8 round because he realised after he started counting that it was unfair and it might actually have been the rabbit punch that caused the KD?

rhino222 wrote:

jonny wrote:It was crazy, how can you count someone then take a point away from the other guy. If the ref saw it as a foul he should not have counted and given Ruiz time to recover.

i think the ref counted because it was not the back of the head shot that knocked ruiz down...the cheap shot landed afterwards. therefore he was right to call the knockdown, and right to deduct the point(s) for a foul that occured after the knockdown punch landed.

Yes, but Ruiz should have been given time to recover from the illegal blow. It was very unfair to Ruiz as he was forced to just fight on after taking a massive whack to the back of the head. I felt Ruiz got a very raw deal from the Ref throughout the fight. I'm not saying the result would have been any different, but when you are being hit very hard anyway, rabbit punches are going to make the fight a real uphill struggle.