BoxRec

Rate these Middleweights effective punching power. I don’t care whether they generated it from speed or brute force. The key word is ‘effective’… How effective were the guys at hurting, dropping and KOing opponents.

Marks out of 10 please (MW scores only)…

Monzon
Valdez
Briscoe
Griffith
Antuofermo
Minter
Hagler
Duran
Hearns
Roldan
Mugabi
McCallum
Benn
Eubank
Jackson
McClellan
Kalambay
Nunn
Hopkins
Toney
Taylor
Pavlik

Interested to see how far my ratings are from other people's...

Monzon - 7
Valdez - 9
Briscoe - 8
Griffith - 5
Antuofermo - 5
Minter - 6
Hagler - 8
Duran - 4
Hearns - 10
Roldan - 7
Mugabi - 10
McCallum - 6
Benn - 9
Eubank - 6
Jackson - 10
McClellan - 10
Kalambay - 5
Nunn - 7
Hopkins - 7
Toney - 8
Taylor - 6
Pavlik - 8

Monzon-7
Valdez-9
Briscoe-9
Griffith-4
Antuofermo- 4
Minter-5
Hagler-9
Duran-6
Hearns-10
Roldan-8
Mugabi-10
McCallum-7
Benn-10
Eubank-7
Jackson-9
McClellan-10
Kalambay-4
Nunn-6
Hopkins-6
Toney-7
Taylor-6
Pavlik-7

Monzon-7 1/2
Valdez-8
Briscoe-9
Griffith-4
Antuofermo- 4
Minter-5
Hagler-9
Duran-3
Hearns-4
Roldan-8
Mugabi-10
McCallum-7
Benn-10
Eubank-7
Jackson-10
McClellan-10
Kalambay-4
Nunn-8
Hopkins-5
Toney-5
Taylor-5
Pavlik-7

I tried to rank based on middleweight fights. For instance, Duran had plenty of power at 135, but he did not carry that power up to 160.

Ezzard wrote:Interested to see how far my ratings are from other people's...
Hagler - 8
Hearns - 10
8

Hagler overpowered Hearns when they fought, if anythign I would assume that Hagler punches harder.

Crease wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Interested to see how far my ratings are from other people's...
Hagler - 8
Hearns - 10
8

Hagler overpowered Hearns when they fought, if anythign I would assume that Hagler punches harder.

Huh? So Ali punched harder than Foreman?

Idisagree wrote:Monzon-7 1/2
Valdez-8
Briscoe-9
Griffith-4
Antuofermo- 4
Minter-5
Hagler-9
Duran-3
Hearns-4
Roldan-8
Mugabi-10
McCallum-7
Benn-10
Eubank-7
Jackson-10
McClellan-10
Kalambay-4
Nunn-8
Hopkins-5
Toney-5
Taylor-5
Pavlik-7

I tried to rank based on middleweight fights. For instance, Duran had plenty of power at 135, but he did not carry that power up to 160.

Hearns a 4? Please elaborate and keep in mind he was one shot destroying guys like Marcos Geraldo that went the distance with Hagler long before he moved up to 60.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Idisagree wrote:Monzon-7 1/2
Valdez-8
Briscoe-9
Griffith-4
Antuofermo- 4
Minter-5
Hagler-9
Duran-3
Hearns-4
Roldan-8
Mugabi-10
McCallum-7
Benn-10
Eubank-7
Jackson-10
McClellan-10
Kalambay-4
Nunn-8
Hopkins-5
Toney-5
Taylor-5
Pavlik-7

I tried to rank based on middleweight fights. For instance, Duran had plenty of power at 135, but he did not carry that power up to 160.

Hearns a 4? Please elaborate and keep in mind he was one shot destroying guys like Marcos Geraldo that went the distance with Hagler long before he moved up to 60.

How many times was Geraldo KO in the first round during his career? Many times and yes he went the distance against Hagler, but yet was KO in 1 by a bunch of pardon the expression “bums”. He was stop 21 times during his career.

At middleweight Hearns went 8W (4KO’s), 2L, and 1 Draw. 4 KO’s/TKO’s in 11 fights. That is around 36% KO ratio. That is why I gave him such a low score.

Also, I take into consideration who did he KO.
McCracken and Shuler were way too inexperience.
Geraldo was KO many times before.
Roldan was his best KO.

Other than that, what else did he do at middleweight?

Idisagree wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Idisagree wrote:Monzon-7 1/2
Valdez-8
Briscoe-9
Griffith-4
Antuofermo- 4
Minter-5
Hagler-9
Duran-3
Hearns-4
Roldan-8
Mugabi-10
McCallum-7
Benn-10
Eubank-7
Jackson-10
McClellan-10
Kalambay-4
Nunn-8
Hopkins-5
Toney-5
Taylor-5
Pavlik-7

I tried to rank based on middleweight fights. For instance, Duran had plenty of power at 135, but he did not carry that power up to 160.

Hearns a 4? Please elaborate and keep in mind he was one shot destroying guys like Marcos Geraldo that went the distance with Hagler long before he moved up to 60.

How many times was Geraldo KO in the first round during his career? Many times and yes he went the distance against Hagler, but yet was KO in 1 by a bunch of pardon the expression “bums”. He was stop 21 times during his career.

At middleweight Hearns went 8W (4KO’s), 2L, and 1 Draw. 4 KO’s/TKO’s in 11 fights. That is around 36% KO ratio. That is why I gave him such a low score.

Also, I take into consideration who did he KO.
McCracken and Shuler were way too inexperience.
Geraldo was KO many times before.
Roldan was his best KO.

Other than that, what else did he do at middleweight?

Fair enough, he was feather fisted. Still odd that the "china chinned' Geraldo went the distance with what you consider a 9.

Hearns certainly doesn't rank with the alltime Middleweight greats by any stretch of the imagination. But you will be hard pressed to find any in agreement that he had below average power at 160 or any other weight.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Hearns a 4? Please elaborate and keep in mind he was one shot destroying guys like Marcos Geraldo that went the distance with Hagler long before he moved up to 60.


How many times was Geraldo KO in the first round during his career? Many times and yes he went the distance against Hagler, but yet was KO in 1 by a bunch of pardon the expression “bums”. He was stop 21 times during his career.

At middleweight Hearns went 8W (4KO’s), 2L, and 1 Draw. 4 KO’s/TKO’s in 11 fights. That is around 36% KO ratio. That is why I gave him such a low score.

Also, I take into consideration who did he KO.
McCracken and Shuler were way too inexperience.
Geraldo was KO many times before.
Roldan was his best KO.

Other than that, what else did he do at middleweight?

Fair enough, he was feather fisted. Still odd that the "china chinned' Geraldo went the distance with what you consider a 9.

Hearns certainly doesn't rank with the alltime Middleweight greats by any stretch of the imagination. But you will be hard pressed to find any in agreement that he had below average power at 160 or any other weight.

I do rank Hearns easily in the top 20 best punchers P4p of all-time. However, at middleweight he simply does not have the credentials to be ranked as a great puncher. At middleweight Hagler was a better puncher than Hearns in my honest opinion, but not p4p. Is hard to rank Hagler p4p because he only stayed at middleweight. That is why I would rank Hearns as an overall better puncher p4p.

You rank Hearns below average at Middleweight, it's ridiculous. But it's your ranking, I'm not going to go on and on about it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I would be completely shocked if anyone in the world agreed with you.

Just say it out loud. Jermain Taylor punched harder than Thomas Hearns.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You rank Hearns below average at Middleweight, it's ridiculous. But it's your ranking, I'm not going to go on and on about it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I would be completely shocked if anyone in the world agreed with you.

Just say it out loud. Jermain Taylor punched harder than Thomas Hearns.

That is where you are wrong. I did not say that Taylor punch harder. I rank Taylor as a slightly better puncher than Hearns at middleweight because he has a better KO ratio. Taylor was at middleweight 22W (17 KO’s), 1L, and 1D. 17 KO’s in 22 fights is around 77% KO ratio. This is strictly at middleweight, not overall p4p. Hearns was probably the harder puncher, but he did not prove it in the ring, that is all I’m saying. At middleweight Taylor has a better KO ratio than Hearns.

Idisagree wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You rank Hearns below average at Middleweight, it's ridiculous. But it's your ranking, I'm not going to go on and on about it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I would be completely shocked if anyone in the world agreed with you.

Just say it out loud. Jermain Taylor punched harder than Thomas Hearns.

That is where you are wrong. I did not say that Taylor punch harder. I rank Taylor as a slightly better puncher than Hearns at middleweight because he has a better KO ratio. Taylor was at middleweight 22W (17 KO’s), 1L, and 1D. 17 KO’s in 22 fights is around 77% KO ratio. This is strictly at middleweight, not overall p4p. Hearns was probably the harder puncher, but he did not prove it in the ring, that is all I’m saying. At middleweight Taylor has a better KO ratio than Hearns.

You're saying if Hearns and Taylor both hit a Middleweight with their best right hand, taylor's would do more damage. To quote your user name, I Disagree.

I hate to break it to you, but substance matters more than ratios. Taylor never knocked out a Middleweight near the toughness or skill of Roldan or Shuler. he mainly knocked out blown up Jr Middles or Welters. Not one KO worth mentioning in his career.

Guys like Sutherland, DeWitt & Colbert were not easy to get rid of. God knows Taylor wouldn't have stopped any of them.

Was Ray Mancini a harder puncher than Ike Williams at Lightweight?

Hearns was 6-1 with 5kO's at Light Heavyweight. So you would say he was a much bigger puncher at 175 than he was at 60? really?

Julian Jackson's KO ratio at Middleweight is right around 50%, what makes him a 10?

Monzon 7
Valdez 8
Briscoe 8
Griffith 6
Antuofermo 5
Minter 6
Hagler 7
Duran 6
Hearns 9
Roldan 7
Mugabi 8
McCallum 6
Benn 8
Eubank 7
Jackson 8
McClellan 9
Kalambay 4
Nunn 4
Hopkins 6
Toney 6
Taylor 6
Pavlik 7

People seem to be getting a wee bit confused, or maybe its me? A good KO ratio doesnt necessarily mean a guy is a great puncher. He could be a wear'em down type or a good combination pucher, for example, I wouldn't class Hagler as a devastating puncher, but he had a great KO ratio.

"...I rank Taylor as a slightly better puncher than Hearns at middleweight because he has a better KO ratio..." - ID

& you don't think that's a slightly limited scope?

“Rate these Middleweights effective punching power. I don’t care whether they generated it from speed or brute force. The key word is ‘effective’… How effective were the guys at hurting, dropping and KOing opponents.

Marks out of 10 please (MW scores only)…”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is how effective were the guys at hurting, dropping, and KOing opponents at (MW scores only). Based on that Hearns does not have the credentials at MW to rank as a great puncher. I’m sure he hit harder than Taylor. However, at MW he did not prove that. For instance, he couldn’t hurt Dewitt, Singletary, or Sutherland. People that were KO before and soon after his fight vs Hearns. Those are not the sings of a huge puncher at MW. Hearns did not prove to me that he was effective at hurting guys at MW.

Hearns was a tremendous puncher, but at MW the only KO imo that stands out is Roldan. Other than that he did not do anything. This is like ranking Hearns over Hopkins at MW. Hearns for me was miles ahead of Hopkins, but he at middleweight I rank Hopkins ahead of Hearns.
At least Taylor was able to KO/TKO 17 out 22 fighters. The most notable wins without a KO were against exceptionally defensive fighters like Hopkins, Wright, and Spinks.

I’ll give you that Roldan was a better KO than anyone Taylor ever was able to stop. However, Taylor was able to KO must bums and Hearns was not.

Maybe Ezzard could correct me if I’m wrong. My understanding is at MW only.

IF on the other hand is who is the better puncher then by far is Hearns. In that case Hearns gets 10 pts from me.

Hearns didn't fight bums at Middleweight, that's all taylor beat. You're incredibly confused.

How come there is no answer about Julian jackson's low Middleweight KO ratio being a 10? I thought that was significant in your line of thinking here?

You can disagree with hearns being a 10, but he wasn't below average. If you go back and actually read our discussion, I don't see how it can escape you. Stop being so stubborn, you're just plain wrong and anybody that reads it will disagree with you.

Crease wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Interested to see how far my ratings are from other people's...
Hagler - 8
Hearns - 10
8

Hagler overpowered Hearns when they fought, if anythign I would assume that Hagler punches harder.

Hearns hits harder but Hagler had one of the best chins in boxing. The same way Tyson couldn't put a dent in Holyfield but was the harder puncher.

Exactly. No, Hagler did not punch harder than Hearns. Not pound-for-pound, & not straight up at Middleweight, either. It's obvious to watch them power wasn't the reason Hagler bested Hearns. Just as it's obvious to see who did more damage with their fists --- including against 160lbers.

people are rating duran low :!:
& toney the guy hit like a mule at middle

Why no Terry Norris if you're rating big punching middle weights? Terrible Terry had one of the hardest punches in boxing at his peak, Jorge Castro, with a 144 fight career spanning from middle weight to cruiser weight, rates him as the hardest puncher that he has ever encountered.

Terry didn't fight at Middleweight, so i have to guess I Disagree would give him a zero.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Terry didn't fight at Middleweight, so i have to guess I Disagree would give him a zero.

No need for that, granted he mainly fought at light middle yet also fought at middle. at least four fights at middle including a tilt at a middle weight title of some description.

If you want to be technical middle weight cut off is 72.574 kg, he fought all of his bouts weighing in under this and light middle cut off is 69.85 kg, he fought more than four bouts weighing in over this. Some of those listed here are from the days of the 'traditional eight' divisions when there was welter weight at 66.679 kg. then middle wieght at 72.574 kg. Under both circumstances he surely qualifies as a middle weight.

You'll never find Terry Norris on a Middleweight list of any kind.

I understand but if you want to make a list of middle weight big punchers, then I think he meets all of the criteria.