BoxRec

Who wins?

Toney for me.

Leonard never really impressed me above 154, although, to be fair to he, he did move up there past his best, after a layoff where he abused drugs etc.

Leonard would not have been able to outpsyche Toney the way he did Hagler.

He would have been tough & competitive, but I think Toney's youth & cuteness would have seen him eek out a points win.

obviously Im using ray leonard 87. For Toney its the 1991 version.

I think Ray outpoints him. Toney had his hands full with nunn for most of that fight and nunn was no SRL, and neither was mike mccallum as good as he was.

Leonard would be too quick on his feet and combos and would clearly and unanimously outpoint toney as he wouldnt sit on the ropes or stand still and allow toney to counter. Toney wouldnt be weight drained and listless like against Jones. But the JOnes fight is a good indicator of what ray leonard would do.

Hard to tell because SRL didn't have a lot fights at 160, but Hagler is a pretty decent scalp.

It's not really fair to say that Nunn wasn't as good as SRL, because while that may be true, the fact that Nunn was a lot taller than JT had a lot to do with the trouble Toney had. Of course having said that, I think SRL was just a little too quick for Toney, so I'd go with SRL by a close competitive decision.

McCallum would have been a very difficult fight for Leonard, or just about anyone for that matter. I don't think Leonard had the power to deter the body snatcher, so I think Mike would have had an excellent chance of beating him. There are valid reasons why the big 3 didn't fight McCallum.

I'll go with SRL. Toney had problems with RJ Jr. because of the speed. SRL was a smart fighter would not fall into Toney's traps. Sugar Ray Leonard in clear boring decision for me.

The Leonard who fought Hagler. Beats Toney at 160lb imo.

Toney wins this fight for me. Sugar Ray Leonard above welterweight was not that good. I mean, after 1982, it was over for him. He was never the same.

All Sugar Ray Leonard did at MW was to defeat the world's number 1 PFP fighter who hadn't lost a bout in over 11 years.

see toney vs jones jnr

leonard better than jones jnr

leonard wide points win

Seamus wrote:All Sugar Ray Leonard did at MW was to defeat the world's number 1 PFP fighter who hadn't lost a bout in over 11 years.

+1

Seamus wrote:All Sugar Ray Leonard did at MW was to defeat the world's number 1 PFP fighter who hadn't lost a bout in over 11 years.

Define "defeat"

I think the idea that Leonard's win over Hagler qualifies him as a certain ATG MW is a bit off.

Yes, he's still a formidable fighter and would only lose to another great fighter on that night in 1987 but nobody ranks Leonard as a top ATG MW - or do they?

Toney walked through and walked down Nunn in his best ever win. And Ray didn't take his iron chin with him once he left welterweight.

Leonard could win but there's not that much evidence at 160 and above.

It could go either way.
But I go for SRL SD.

Ezzard wrote:I think the idea that Leonard's win over Hagler qualifies him as a certain ATG MW is a bit off.

Yes, he's still a formidable fighter and would only lose to another great fighter on that night in 1987 but nobody ranks Leonard as a top ATG MW - or do they?

Toney walked through and walked down Nunn in his best ever win. And Ray didn't take his iron chin with him once he left welterweight.

Leonard could win but there's not that much evidence at 160 and above.

I agree with you Ezzard. Leonard between 1979 thru 1982 was awesome. After that, he did not look that good never again.

Ezzard wrote:I think the idea that Leonard's win over Hagler qualifies him as a certain ATG MW is a bit off.

Yes, he's still a formidable fighter and would only lose to another great fighter on that night in 1987 but nobody ranks Leonard as a top ATG MW - or do they?

Toney walked through and walked down Nunn in his best ever win. And Ray didn't take his iron chin with him once he left welterweight.

Leonard could win but there's not that much evidence at 160 and above.

I dont think anyone is calling Ray Leonard an ATG at middleweight based on just one fight.

I agree the evidence we do have, such as the slim victory over the great Hagler, a controversial draw with Hearns, a victory over a 38 year old Duran, may in some peoples minds not be great and in other peoples mind it might be great........but I think most consensus opinion is.....hey this is Ray Leonard. He was a great Welterweight in his prime. Likely he could have either carried it over to a lengthy and succesfull career as a middleweight if he hadnt retired in 1982 and had those 5 years more or less off or perhaps just as likely Hagler and a resurgent Hearns would have crushed him in those years.