BoxRec

I recently did a bit of research on this and it made me poses a few questions. I found an explanation on a website for a semi pro promotional company. On it they explained that semi pro fills the gap between pro and amateur allowing pro's/amateurs that dont get enough fights/enough money to compete more regularly and to earn more and for older fighters often 35-50 sometimes older to compete competitively.

Fighters on such shows can stand to make anywhere from 20-50% of the amount of tickets they sell. I am told this is possible as semi pro shwos have "less expenses" than a proffesional promotion. At first i wondered how can their cost be any less? Venue, ring seating etc must be the same though sanctioning fees obviously dont need to be paid. This leads me to believe that the costs that are cut are those of doctors, pro refs security and other more crucial and necessary things needed to ensure the safest possible fight.

Despite this reservation there seems to be a fairly big market for these shows and are able to attract crowds that rival many pro shows. They supposedly fill a void between ams and pros with many pro fighters/ former pros becoming involved in such fights. Surely these shows should be stopped altogether as they are a medical liability as they involve older fighters or pro boxing should move to fill the void to allow for safer promotions and to recapture the audiences these shows are attracting

Anybody have any opinions/ attended one of these shows. What is the difference between these EBF shows and white collar boxing?

EBF and white collar are highly frowned upon by the BBBC, the shows are entertaining and usually feature local muscle heads beating ten bells out of each other. They are highly attended and the organisers generate huge profit. Paying participants only a percentage of ticket sales. It is without a shadow of a doubt dangerous and though doctors and paramedics attend, the weight ins and medical leave a lot to be desired. Matchmaking too is often ridculous with some of the worst 'boxers' known to man facing off against giant meatheads.

That said there is some good boxers hidden in there both am and pro. There is a lad called Ryan Davies from Blackpool who has only had 4 fights and already holds his own with some of the finest amateurs in the country. His vids are on youtube and he has a nice classy style, almost in complete contrast to the 'fighters' generally on the circuit. They are certainly rising in popularity and on the plus side give talented 30 somethings and ex-pro's who still love to compete the chance to put their hard work on show.

I advise all fighters good enough not to go down this route. Eventually someone will be badly hurt I feel- I think that amateur boxing with a good coach is the only way a fighter should progress. However I do feel that the board and the ABA are missing out by crimilising these alternative bodies. The board should make a senior circuit. And also somewhere for ex-pro's and ams over 35 to carry on competing.

i can answer those for you as a white collar promotor myself , lets be honest for starters , some promotors say it fills a gap between amateur and pro but in all fairness the top level of amateur is far better than the top level of semi pro / white collar , all these shows are white collar , including the ebf , but the ebf down south , the one called the english boxing federation termed their shows semi-pro and several have since copied , i suppose it sounds better , but i stick to it being called white collar as im not intending to fool anyone , people like the shows as there usually far more competitive that some of the pro shows we see on sky , as the pros more often than not we know whos going to win wheras in white collar its more 50-50 , well it at least should be , but i suppose there are some dodgy guys out there and of course its still a business so the promotors will always want their fighter to win etc .
as far as medical sides , almost all promotors now acknowledge the fact that safety is paramount and that paramedics etc should be provided , but of course there not going to be as high a standard medical facilities etc as the pros are using .
the shows are a good chance for fighters who would never have been good enough for the pros to do something they enjoy and earn some descent money from it , which theres definately good money to be earned , along with people too old for amateur (some start at 29 or so and are too old to feel they can ever make any impact in amateurs , some older , theres a 51 year old that travels the length and width of the country fighting week in week out as an opponent , or ex pros on their way down who have the need to still be earning through boxing.
as far as the ticket percentages , id say that sounds about right as far as the bigger promotions go , but in all fairness the better fights are usually at smaller ones who havent started getting greedy yet , and those promotors will usually give better than 25% , at least i do anyway , as a means to attract the better fighters , so that i can put on better shows , at the end of the day i enjoy all the arranging and match making etc , so to make money is a bonus .

Jeff Thomas wrote: The board should make a senior circuit. And also somewhere for ex-pro's and ams over 35 to carry on competing.

i agree with your concerns, Jeff, but if promoters struggle mightily to break even on small hall shows (with non-aged talent/ area titles etc at stake) how are they supposed to make money on a seniors' tour?

Jeff Thomas wrote:EBF and white collar are highly frowned upon by the BBBC, the shows are entertaining and usually feature local muscle heads beating ten bells out of each other. They are highly attended and the organisers generate huge profit. Paying participants only a percentage of ticket sales. It is without a shadow of a doubt dangerous and though doctors and paramedics attend, the weight ins and medical leave a lot to be desired. Matchmaking too is often ridculous with some of the worst 'boxers' known to man facing off against giant meatheads.

That said there is some good boxers hidden in there both am and pro. There is a lad called Ryan Davies from Blackpool who has only had 4 fights and already holds his own with some of the finest amateurs in the country. His vids are on youtube and he has a nice classy style, almost in complete contrast to the 'fighters' generally on the circuit. They are certainly rising in popularity and on the plus side give talented 30 somethings and ex-pro's who still love to compete the chance to put their hard work on show.

I advise all fighters good enough not to go down this route. Eventually someone will be badly hurt I feel- I think that amateur boxing with a good coach is the only way a fighter should progress. However I do feel that the board and the ABA are missing out by crimilising these alternative bodies. The board should make a senior circuit. And also somewhere for ex-pro's and ams over 35 to carry on competing.

some points i agree with , but some i dont , for example terrible fighters fighting meat heads lol , would never happen on my shows i guarantee you that , sometimes it can seem like that though , on my last show one of my lads dropped his unbeaten opponent after 9 seconds with a big body blow , to someone who didnt know they could have thought the guy was a nobody but he was unbeaten and definately a dangerous opponent , i like to think it was good match making by myself on behalf of my fighter , but in all honesty id have liked it to go on longer to entertain the crowd , and im sure most promotors feel the same .

to me theres no reason to "criminalise" it as you stated , its a legitimate way to earn money , the guy who won in 9 seconds who i just mentioned above isnt a great ticket seller at all but still earned £700 for his short nights work , where else could he earn that sort of money in such a short space of time ?

as far as your seniors tour idea , thats the thing the promotors and matchmakers etc should be controlling , put there guys in with appropriate opponents , so theres no need for a seniors tour , as theres already a platform for them to do so as a pro , on undercards etc , it when they delusionally think they can be a world champion etc and try to step up there opposition that it becomes a problem .

Jeff Thomas wrote:EBF and white collar are highly frowned upon by the BBBC, the shows are entertaining and usually feature local muscle heads beating ten bells out of each other.

. It is without a shadow of a doubt dangerous and though doctors and paramedics attend, the weight ins and medical leave a lot to be desired.

Matchmaking too is often ridculous with some of the worst 'boxers' known to man facing off against giant meatheads.

.

come down to my next show and ill attempt to make you see things from behind the scenes etc , maybe youll have a slightly different opinion .

how come white collar shows coin it when 'proper' shows struggle?

i really don't get that.....

How are these boxers able to make so much money on such a show then it sounds like a profitable business all round imo. Many small hall pro shows are break even or lose money how do these shows make the money what costs are decreased? Seems to me that the level of these fighters is also crucially important good ams/ just shy of pro seem fair enough but people with little real boxing skill/experience is questionable it jsut turns into a legal ruck in a ring somewhere that your mates can watch.

Counter-puncher wrote:how come white collar shows coin it when 'proper' shows struggle?

i really don't get that.....

i suppose one problem is the away fighter on a pro show will always have to be paid , wheras on white collar shows its eay enough to put people against each other who can bth sell tickets , as promotors dont generally bother going all over the country , and just stick to there own area as theres promotors all over the place now , i only rally need to pay for opponents for my top fighters , to ensure their of a descent calibre , the lower level lads can fight other lower level lads so not got the need to seach out opponents . i think that makes sense how i wrote it .

thanks damian, it makes more sense if not total sense to me, when put like that.

Damian may i ask what sort of boxing experience you have and how you got into the promotion of semi pro shows?

example here : this bout was from my first ever show , both having their first bout , so not a great standard , more of a brawl , but ian (the guy who enters the ring second ) made £1200 on ticket sales , the venue was upto capacity with its 300 spectators . so you can see if a fighter this standard can make so much , that a good fighter can make loads .

ill state again its by no means a classic , and the mc was quite bad (he was a guy that worked for me , doing for the first time so ill forgive him a bit lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmdvRNVyKgE

wrimc wrote:Damian may i ask what sort of boxing experience you have and how you got into the promotion of semi pro shows?

i boxed amateur as a junior , had around a 50% record , wasnt great , i ended up working in football as a coach and a scout , but of course boxing was my main love so i used the organisational skills etc id learned in football to make a go of it in boxing .

Would you ever consider moving into pro boxing promotion if you had the opportunity? Is the crowd completely comprimised of friends of fighters family etc then or do you get a fair few walk ins as well do you do a lot of advertisment? sorry a lot of questions just curious thats all thanks for any help you can give.

wrimc wrote:Would you ever consider moving into pro boxing promotion if you had the opportunity? Is the crowd completely comprimised of friends of fighters family etc then or do you get a fair few walk ins as well do you do a lot of advertisment? sorry a lot of questions just curious thats all thanks for any help you can give.

problem with doing it pro is you need finances to start with , as for example , if i have this right , you have to be able to guarantee the pay of fighters in case of a show collapsing , maybe by paying it to the board first .
id say usually 60-70 % are tickets purchased directly from fighters but when you build up a reputation in your area local people ring directly for tickets and also purchase them on the door , my last show didnt have a big ticket seller from the town it was in so more people came on the doors etc as they had come to watch their mate previously and enjoyed it .

when you think £20 for a ticket , for a good night out , nice women to look at (ring girls ) and boxing to watch , its seen as a descent night out , somewhere different for a group of mates to go rather than the same old nightclubs or whatever .

people arent expecting real quality fights , if they was they would go to a pro show , although obviously the better the fights the more chance there is of people coming back

as far as advertising , i used to offer it to local companies but i now use a charity as the main sponser and let them come collecting or donate some money to them as well as raising awareness of them , ive agreed to do this for an animal sanctuary for the rest of the year .

With regards to sanctioning or whatever is there a sanctioning body you adhere to or there little or no regualtions? With no disrespect what would stop the police coming in and breaking up the fight if it wasnt a proffesional sanctioned fight?

wrimc wrote:With regards to sanctioning or whatever is there a sanctioning body you adhere to or there little or no regualtions? With no disrespect what would stop the police coming in and breaking up the fight if it wasnt a proffesional sanctioned fight?

the police wouldnt break it up as its not illegal . theres nothing anyone can do to stop a show , its just not sanctioned by the board or aba , its when the pros call it unlicensed that makes it seem something dodgy , its not like on the film snatch lol.

yes there are sanctioning bodies , quite a few , meaning theres rankings and titles etc , some are just theres to make money just like it seems with some of the pro sanctioning bodies , im with one called O.I.B.A , they only charge a small sanctioning fee for titles and that all results are recorded and all their medical formalities are sorted etc , but some charge you for each fighter you register , which can be as much as £150 , some of the fighters will only fight once , just to get the experience etc of doing it , so to pay a fee for them isnt practical . i once paid to register as a promotor with bbf and then never had anything to do with them , they just seemed to want my money and that was it , never heard anything from them again .

Counter-puncher wrote:

Jeff Thomas wrote: The board should make a senior circuit. And also somewhere for ex-pro's and ams over 35 to carry on competing.

i agree with your concerns, Jeff, but if promoters struggle mightily to break even on small hall shows (with non-aged talent/ area titles etc at stake) how are they supposed to make money on a seniors' tour?

Competitive matches with guys that are only boxing out of love for the sport. Not journeyman vs prospect right through the bill like half of these shows we get on a friday.

damianhucker1 wrote:

Jeff Thomas wrote:EBF and white collar are highly frowned upon by the BBBC, the shows are entertaining and usually feature local muscle heads beating ten bells out of each other.

. It is without a shadow of a doubt dangerous and though doctors and paramedics attend, the weight ins and medical leave a lot to be desired.

Matchmaking too is often ridculous with some of the worst 'boxers' known to man facing off against giant meatheads.

.

come down to my next show and ill attempt to make you see things from behind the scenes etc , maybe youll have a slightly different opinion .

Hey Damian, sorry pal not a slight at you, you seem a nice, sensible chap- i'm just commenting on the shows i see here. Where are you baseD?

Jeff Thomas wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:

Jeff Thomas wrote:EBF and white collar are highly frowned upon by the BBBC, the shows are entertaining and usually feature local muscle heads beating ten bells out of each other.

. It is without a shadow of a doubt dangerous and though doctors and paramedics attend, the weight ins and medical leave a lot to be desired.

Matchmaking too is often ridculous with some of the worst 'boxers' known to man facing off against giant meatheads.

.

come down to my next show and ill attempt to make you see things from behind the scenes etc , maybe youll have a slightly different opinion .

Hey Damian, sorry pal not a slight at you, you seem a nice, sensible chap- i'm just commenting on the shows i see here. Where are you baseD?

i do my home shows in north notts in general .

There is a company in Doncaster called Prizefighter uk ltd. These guys put on excellent shows, there is always Paramedic,Doctors and insurance (for boxers and spectators). They put on 50/50 fights all through the card and put most of thr pro promoters to shame with how its all ran. Most of the boxers are proffesional athletes but in MMA, these guys dont duck any1.

I suppose its a bit easier to take a competetive fight when there isnt a pro record involved and that the real exercise of the show is to purely make money for those involved yes people will enjoy a few decent scraps but for the pro's surely its just a glorified sparring session in front of a crowd and they get a few quid at the end not a bad deal in all fairness.

I boxed on an "Exhibition" Show for my 1st fight as the gym i was training at was not ABA.

There was no weigh in or medical but paramdics on site, 14oz gloves and headguards. no cash for the fight either.

I was told the lad i was fighting had a few fights before but no numbers were mentioned. ended up getting stopped on bust nose at the end of the second round.

Spoke to the lad about a month after and told me he was on about 20 fights and had by then won an EBF title.
Even though i held my own in the ring, experience showed against a no bout novice.

I changed to an ABA gym and have been matched evenly in every fight since, winning, losing and getting robbed.

The most tickets i have sold one of my home shows was about 40 so making the club £400, it is now abit more appealing to consider fighting one of these shows again to pocket a bit of money for what i am doing for free now.

I would still recomend going to an ABA gym to gain experience in evenly matched fights as i know of people changing there names to hide records and to hide that they are taking part in these fights on the side.

Just like to say Prizefighter in Doncaster have weigh ins, also full medicals by a doctor. Also seen them cancel a fight due to boxers being over the agreed weight, with 1 of the boxers selling 25 tickets and the other 15 tickets.(dinner show)

Beive me semi pro boxing promoters are not making huge profits, the main reason why the pricing structure is different is that in the pro's the going rate for a 4x3 fight is around £1500.
times that by 4 and add a 6x3 bout and a main event and you are looking at alot of money to put on 6 pro fights.