BoxRec

Since i been accused of taking a dive (which i can assure you i havent) i got to thinking of famous dives and suspect ones. tex cobb vs dee collier, lamotta vs fox, munn vs anderson, are just a few.

Always been talk that Dempsey took a dive against Flynn and of course rumours about Clay and Liston

HomicideHenry wrote:Since i been accused of taking a dive (which i can assure you i havent) i got to thinking of famous dives and suspect ones. tex cobb vs dee collier, lamotta vs fox, munn vs anderson, are just a few.

Tubbs vs Tyson was a funny 1.

Who are u BTW?

Rufus "homicide henry" defibaugh. i made my debut in february against j'leon love. was matched tough, lost on a tko in the 1st. some haters accused me of laying down taking a dive, but tell me if having no am or pro experience going against an am champ with over 115 wins and being in the olympics means i took a dive? nah that was just a mismatch.

HomicideHenry wrote:Rufus "homicide henry" defibaugh. i made my debut in february against j'leon love. was matched tough, lost on a tko in the 1st. some haters accused me of laying down taking a dive, but tell me if having no am or pro experience going against an am champ with over 115 wins and being in the olympics means i took a dive? nah that was just a mismatch.

Y wood any1 take a dive on their debut? Can't see da thinking there... Any way son u get back in that ring a stronger fighter next time.

Bonecrusher/Witherspoon, iffy on the terminology since he got up a few times. But Tim entered the ring with no intention of winning.

Tyson/Seldon always comes to mind, although it's possible Bruce fell over from pure fright as much as any punch.

HomicideHenry wrote:Rufus "homicide henry" defibaugh. i made my debut in february against j'leon love. was matched tough, lost on a tko in the 1st. some haters accused me of laying down taking a dive, but tell me if having no am or pro experience going against an am champ with over 115 wins and being in the olympics means i took a dive? nah that was just a mismatch.

tzyuforever wrote:Tyson/Seldon always comes to mind, although it's possible Bruce fell over from pure fright as much as any punch.

Tyson/Stewart was another without a punch worth noting.

Not a "dive" as in a fixed fight but Herbie Hide was fond of going down without being hit by a punch.

Hasim Rahman vs Mario Cawley (comical, you can view it on youtube)
Herbie Hide vs the appropriately named Mircea Telecan
One of Tommy Morrison's recent "fights"
Emmanuel Augustus vs Allan Vester

TheGreatA wrote:Hasim Rahman vs Mario Cawley (comical, you can view it on youtube)
Herbie Hide vs the appropriately named Mircea Telecan
One of Tommy Morrison's recent "fights"
Emmanuel Augustus vs Allan Vester

Just watched Rahman-Cawley. Rahman even found time in round two for a Mayweather impression with the low left, LOL. Cawley was laughably pathetic.

05:07 of the video is hysterical! Rahman swings a right hand clear over Cawley's head, missing totally, & Cawley ducks & just crumples to the canvas! LOL! The commentator starts to say, "Good right hand...errr..." as he realises it missed by a half a foot

Cant say I know much about this one : Lulu Perez v Willie Pep. The shots that took Pep out, specifically the last knockdown, looked very dubious. Just seemed Willie was looking for a way out.

Kind of, 'Ok, I got hit.....now I think that punch is supposed to drop me'.

Still a fantastic fighter, though

Kermit Cintron (of sorts)...ahem, apparently. Sorry, I could not resist

bengulnaci1 wrote:Kermit Cintron (of sorts)...ahem, apparently. Sorry, I could not resist

He literally dove out of the ring, so I'd say you're right.

well done guys, i've never seen anything like that. I know people aren't exactly lining up to fight paul, but that is taking avoided to another level.

willie pep was so great at tanking it that he could take punch on the jaw...instead of going down from punches that missed by inches (hell....by feet in the early aaron pryor tankos) that you had to admire his skill at it. in the perez fight he seemed pleased with himself as he sat there and was counted out. the new york boxing commission was not amused and banned him for a while...maybe life but they always changed their mind about the length of those things. willie was so good practicing his art against tommy collins in boston that collins thought he had actually done it for real.

willie was always in hock to the kind of people who are the last ones you want to be in hock to.

he blamed his bad fortune on slow horses and fast women.

By "dives" do you mean:


1. Abe Andersonvillesmith and Bob Butterfieldwortherton agree to fight in a boxing match. An agreement is made ahead of time for Bob to lose the fight on purpose, still get paid, and Abe gets the win.


2. Abe and Bob are engaged in the fight. Both men try their hardest to win. However, after a few rounds pass, Bob realizes that Abe is just way more advanced as a boxer than he will ever be. Bob is now concerned about his health and wellbeing. Therefore, Bob decides to find a soft spot to land on after getting hit by a punch and take the 10 count to avoid getting further punishment.

In both fights, Bob made a decision to lose, but I don't really consider #2 a "dive".

Oh and...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nv/home/pre ... 120604.htm

zojo, wrote:By "dives" do you mean:


1. Abe Andersonvillesmith and Bob Butterfieldwortherton agree to fight in a boxing match. An agreement is made ahead of time for Bob to lose the fight on purpose, still get paid, and Abe gets the win.


2. Abe and Bob are engaged in the fight. Both men try their hardest to win. However, after a few rounds pass, Bob realizes that Abe is just way more advanced as a boxer than he will ever be. Bob is now concerned about his health and wellbeing. Therefore, Bob decides to find a soft spot to land on after getting hit by a punch and take the 10 count to avoid getting further punishment.

In both fights, Bob made a decision to lose, but I don't really consider #2 a "dive".

I agree with this. In Tyson-Stewart, for example, Alex decided early he wanted no part of Mike and mentally 'quit' . . .but there was no pre-fight arrangement. I wouldn't consider that a 'dive'.

bengulnaci1 wrote:Kermit Cintron (of sorts)...ahem, apparently. Sorry, I could not resist

Yes

Famous fights oft reputed to have been fixed:

Jim Hall KO4 over Bob Fitzsimmons
Tom Sharkey W-DQ9 over Jim Corbett
Jim Corbett KO5 over Kid McCoy
Terrible Terry McGovern KO2 over Joe Gans
Fireman Jim Flynn KO1 over Jack Dempsey
Tony Fuente KO1 over Fred Fulton (several other fights toward end of FF's career)
Primo Carnera W-DQ4 over Young Stribling
Young Stribling W-DQ7 over Primo Carnera
Primo Carnera W-DQ5 over George Godfrey
Primo Carnera KO6 over Jack Sharkey (many other fights throughout PC's career)
Rex Layne W10 over Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano KO1 over Jersey Joe Walcott
Muhammad Ali TKO1 over Sonny Liston

I dunno Looks like Marciano hit Walcott directly in the melon with a right hand early in their second fight.
Walcott's DNA instinctly remebered the first fight
The report it was fixed probably just sour grapes to take away from his victory.

jaclem2 wrote:willie pep was so great at tanking it that he could take punch on the jaw...instead of going down from punches that missed by inches (hell....by feet in the early aaron pryor tankos) that you had to admire his skill at it. in the perez fight he seemed pleased with himself as he sat there and was counted out. the new york boxing commission was not amused and banned him for a while...maybe life but they always changed their mind about the length of those things. willie was so good practicing his art against tommy collins in boston that collins thought he had actually done it for real.

willie was always in hock to the kind of people who are the last ones you want to be in hock to.

he blamed his bad fortune on slow horses and fast women.

Its Willies tank jobs that in my mind prevent him from being an all time great.
We cant expect our champs to be saints. After all,boxing aint a maypole dance.
However, I think character in the ring should count when we are grading the best.
Doing the old flip flop reflects very poorly on all time great status.
Cant do it. Cant take a dive and thats where its at.