BoxRec

Boxing Scene listed boxing's '10 greatest chins' in their May 1991 issue. Here they are:

1. Jake LaMotta
2. Rocky Marciano
3. George Chuvalo
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Vito Antuofermo
6. Randall 'Tex' Cobb
7. Marvin Hagler
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
9. Joe Grim
10. Tom Sharkey

I quite like this list. Perhaps, Marvin should be higher. Only one man ever officially floored him, Juan Domingo Roldan in 1984 - and that was a blatant slip.



Bert Randolph Sugar's 10 most devastating knockouts of all time compiled in 1992, read:

1. Rocky Marciano over Jersey Joe Walcott KO 13
2. Mike Weaver over John Tate KO 15
3. Bob Foster over Dick Tiger KO 4
4. Gerry Cooney over Ken Norton KO 1
5. Joe Louis over Max Schmeling KO 1
6. Jack Johnson over Stanly Ketchel KO 12
7. Sugar Ray Robinson over Gene Fullmer KO 5
8. Ray Mercer over Tommy Morrison KO 5
9. Jake LaMotta over Laurent Dauthuille KO 15
10. Jack Dempsy over Jack Sharkey KO 7

Apart from the Cooney knockout over a totally shot Ken Norton, I would say that's a pretty fair list.

Not one of the greatest, but Don Curry's KO of Milton McCrory was pretty devastating.

As was Henry Coopers KO of Joe Erskine.

Kenny Vice's KO of Jim McDonnell in 1991 at the Royal Albert Hall was one of the most devastating KO I have ever seen live, in person.

knockout artist wrote:Not one of the greatest, but Don Curry's KO of Milton McCrory was pretty devastating.

As was Henry Coopers KO of Joe Erskine.

Kenny Vice's KO of Jim McDonnell in 1991 at the Royal Albert Hall was one of the most devastating KO I have ever seen live, in person.

Yes, Vice-McDonnell was not nice. Kenny had already seen an opponent die in the ring at his hands (Brian Baronet) and was in tears afterwards. But Jim made a full recovery, and had one more fight in Europe to prove something to himself. He was banned from fighting in this country.

boxrec has it as a TKO

what else can it be?

terap wrote:what else can it be?

A FAKE.

Liston got up and was fighting on when Nat Fleischer shouted to Jersey Joe that Sonny had been down longer than 10 seconds (but Ali had refused to go to a neutral corner so the count should have been delayed, as in Tunney-Dempsey II). Only then did Jersey Joe stop the fight. But the fact remains: the fight was continuing and Fleischer (who hated Liston) should have kept his big, biased mouth shut. How can it be a fake when both fighters are swapping punches at the finish! If Liston had stayed down, yes. Swapping punches, no.

I quite agree Bennie.

Nat Fleischer should have kept his mouth shut.

Could you imagine Claude Abrams doing something similar?

It wouldnt be tolerated.

Liston was on his feet and fighting back, he didnt even look hurt. Hell, the way he was rolling around, he should have been given an oscar.

bennie wrote:

terap wrote:what else can it be?

A FAKE.

Liston got up and was fighting on when Nat Fleischer shouted to Jersey Joe that Sonny had been down longer than 10 seconds (but Ali had refused to go to a neutral corner so the count should have been delayed, as in Tunney-Dempsey II). Only then did Jersey Joe stop the fight. But the fact remains: the fight was continuing and Fleischer (who hated Liston) should have kept his big, biased mouth shut. How can it be a fake when both fighters were swapping punches at the finish! If Liston had stayed down, yes. Swapping punches, no.

I am no blatant Ali basher like Terap, Bennie, but their second fight doesn't ring true. Aside from Walcott's inept refereeing and Fleischer's intervention from ringside, the "knockdown" looks like a poorly choreographed dive. Trading pulled punches is the easy part. Making a dive look realistic is not so easy.

The crowd agreed. Shouting "Fake, fake, fake" after the ludicrous conclusion to this most blatant of fixes. My theory is that Liston and his mob, for reasons we can only speculate at, were behind the pre-arranged outcome. Ali, I believe, was not a party to it.

Yes, both fights were fakes.

Liston made the mob a lot of money by diving in the second fight.

knockout artist wrote:I quite agree Bennie.

Nat Fleischer should have kept his mouth shut.

Could you imagine Claude Abrams doing something similar?

It wouldnt be tolerated.

Liston was on his feet and fighting back, he didnt even look hurt. Hell, the way he was rolling around, he should have been given an oscar.

If only the fight had been allowed to continue then there would be no controversey now. Ali, who was in fantastic shape, was opening up on Liston when the fight was stopped and should have been given the chance to finish the job. There's no doubt that in 1965, Ali was going to beat Liston. But the orginal rematch, slated for Boston in late 1964, would have been a different story. Liston was the one who whipped himself into tremendous shape for that one and would have given Ali a great fight. But Ali suffered a hernia a few days before the fight.
By the time the two did meet, Liston had grown old.

Stanley Ketchel scored a devastating knockout of Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, but O'Brien was saved by the bell and won the decision.

I seem to recall that O'Brien was out cold.

Ketchel also KO'd Jim Smith in what was his last fight, Ketchel administered a savage beating and a devastating KO.

Ketchel would be my No1 Middleweight of all time.

He was killed before he reached his prime.

Could you imagine him squealing over purses like Bernard Hopkins?

Ketchel would just sign the papers and knock the guy out.

A true fighter and a true hard man.

He was a bouncer in illegal drinking dens and brothels when he was 16 years old.

He sure did fit a lot of living into those 24 years.

Does anyone know where I can get a book on him?

knockout artist wrote:Stanley Ketchel scored a devastating knockout of Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, but O'Brien was saved by the bell and won the decision.

I seem to recall that O'Brien was out cold.

Ketchel also KO'd Jim Smith in what was his last fight, Ketchel administered a savage beating and a devastating KO.

Ketchel would be my No1 Middleweight of all time.

He was killed before he reached his prime.

Could you imagine him squealing over purses like Bernard Hopkins?

Ketchel would just sign the papers and knock the guy out.

A true fighter and a true hard man.

He was a bouncer in illegal drinking dens and brothels when he was 16 years old.

He sure did fit a lot of living into those 24 years.

Does anyone know where I can get a book on him?

I find that the best source for boxing books in this country is boxingstuff.com

Another reliable site is "Prizefighting Books" at:
http://hometown.aol.com/cmoyle/myhomepage/business.html

terap wrote:
No books I know of on Ketchel--which is sad.

That's because you're a clueless twat.

"The Michigan Assassin" by Nat Fleischer

terap wrote: Try getting a copy of that book.

I bought a copy years ago.

They appear on Ebay regularly.

Stop spreading these untruths. You're lack of knowledge is an embarrasment.

You're presence reeks of raw sewage in a humid septic tank.

How the f*** is 1960's "Modern Media" ???

Maybe terap is a 95 year old with alzheimer's.

Thanks, Terap and Bennie, for your help

it still hurts me to see it, but the left hook kayo by walcott over my hero ezzard charles is one of the most devastating ever. turned ezzard's head around almost as much as that kid in The Exorcist".

ezzard's right hand is so low as walcott just walks away from the ropes and throws that hook that it puzzles some observers. what isn't seen is the hard body punch walcott landed earlier....punches to his body...when he was a heavyweight.... were one of charles's few weaknesses and that's why he had his elbow down around his waistline.

next hardest blow...hearing the decision announced for walcott in the next fight...which ezzard won so clearly.....the widest margin of their three 15 round fights.

I actually have a copy of 'The Michigan Assassin' biog on Stanley Ketchel by Nat Fleischer..... it's regarded as Fleischer's greatest book and is legendary among collectors and very hard to get.
I picked up mine for just £14 in a second-hand book shop some months back. Somebody up there liked me that day.

Muhammad Ali was knocked down three times in his entire career. Jack Dempsey was floored NINE times in his 1915 drawn fight with Johnny Sudenberg alone.

Johnny Dundee who won Featherweight and Junior lightweight titles had great durability and stanima. He was koed just twice in 330 bouts... and fought all the top fighters from Bantam to lightweight for over 20 years. He held Johnney Kilbane to a draw over 20 rounds in 1913 for the Feather title but had to wait another 10 years before he got another shot at the Feather title. He often fought over 20 times a year and due to being a light puncher had to go the distance in the vast majority of his many fights.

silkov wrote: Johnny Dundee who won Featherweight and Junior lightweight titles had great durability and stanima. He was koed just twice in 330 bouts... and fought all the top fighters from Bantam to lightweight for over 20 years.

As you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Jack Dempsey facing black fighters:

How many black fighters did Dundee face in this 330 bout 20 year career against all the top fighters from Bantam to Lightweight?

Uh oh!! I think Terap has brought on one of buddies to back him up!....beware beware the self proclaimed ALI SHILL!..... WILL WE NEVER BE SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

silkov wrote:Uh oh!! I think Terap has brought on one of buddies to back him up!....beware beware the self proclaimed ALI SHILL!..... WILL WE NEVER BE SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

See how the shills react when they are exposed.

They lap up the modern media fairy-tales perpetuated by their messiah Steve Farhood.

The low mentalities that lurk on this board know no better.

Leo Johnson and Leo Patterson were the two premier black fighters of Dundee's era, he didn't fight either. Benny Leonard and Willie Jackson did fight Johnson.

right after the first louis/walcott fight, in an interview about his unorthodox way of stepping around the ring, walcott said he got some of his moves from studying johnny dundee (or taught to him by his..walcott's trainer..forget exactly)...and he specifically mentioned his move where he'd drop his hands and do a half step to his left and move away...and after doing this a couple of times instead of going away, he'd shift back and throw a left hook or a right hand over his opponent coming in after him. it was the right hand that was so effective against joe louis...because louis would reach out with his jab and walcott threw the right over it.

i have never seen any films of dundee, but sometimes sports writer westbrook pegler pointed out the same thing.

ALISHRILL I was obviously wrong when I mistook you for a Terap fan as I have just seen you insult Terap out of all proportion on another post.
It is evident you are just intent on picking meaningless arguments and have no real interest (or knowledge for that matter) regarding boxing or boxers. Hence I shall cease treating you seriously.
By the way I ve renamed you as I think the new one fits you rather well!!!..
Have a nice day!