BoxRec

ok Larry v ferguson was a step up altho dsnt promise too many fireworks

but now dallas and Price have been given the usual fodder...fat, bald, latvian imports who just flop about throwing one punch a round.


i will not be going to this one


it is rubbish

is fury vs mcdermott still on?

heard a few rumours that fury has pulled out.

i hope so

its a circus

funso banjo baby wrote:ok Larry v ferguson was a step up altho dsnt promise too many fireworks

but now dallas and Price have been given the usual fodder...fat, bald, latvian imports who just flop about throwing one punch a round.


i will not be going to this one


it is rubbish

So why do you not stop moaning and get a promoters or matchmakers license and show us how to do the job and build up fighter and let them devl. into good fighters.

FtmPress wrote:

funso banjo baby wrote:ok Larry v ferguson was a step up altho dsnt promise too many fireworks

but now dallas and Price have been given the usual fodder...fat, bald, latvian imports who just flop about throwing one punch a round.


i will not be going to this one


it is rubbish

So why do you not stop moaning and get a promoters or matchmakers license and show us how to do the job and build up fighter and let them devl. into good fighters.

Agreed! Maloney does good shows apart from broadhurst v haskins show !

FtmPress wrote:

funso banjo baby wrote:ok Larry v ferguson was a step up altho dsnt promise too many fireworks

but now dallas and Price have been given the usual fodder...fat, bald, latvian imports who just flop about throwing one punch a round.


i will not be going to this one


it is rubbish

So why do you not stop moaning and get a promoters or matchmakers license and show us how to do the job and build up fighter and let them devl. into good fighters.

Sorry, but that's a piss-poor response. Paying customers in boxing are continually let down and the answer is not to come up with jibes like this but rather to address the short-comings and put on shows that constitute genuine value for money. No wonder the sport is dying when this is the attitude...

Just give the fat [JM] kid a fair shake.

Amateurs with the calibre of price should not be matched so poorly as pros imo.

chiggsy wrote:Amateurs with the calibre of price should not be matched so poorly as pros imo.

I know what you mean but Price hasn't looked great so far as a pro in my opinion.

What does an Olympic medalist like Price, who has had countless amateur fights at a high level, actually gain by knocking over a fat bald Latvian with the first body shot he throws?? Pointless.

We need someone who will take a few shots and actually throw back with an intent on winning, rather than surviving.

I appreciate that it is not easy to match these lads, but we`ve seen it time and time again, where a prospect flattens evrybody in his first 15 fights, he steps up and bang, he`s done like a kipper. Why? because he isn`t used to some guy actually fighting back and thus his defence is not what it should be.

For me it`s all about the sparring and trainers. There is no substitute for quality hard sparring. The yanks are masters at the sparring. They tough it out in the gym and when they get into the ring on fight night, it`s like second nature to them to be in a tough fight. I feel that many of our fighters don\t get this kind of quality hard sparring and it shows.

Why are we not bringing over Americans for these lads? There are loads of American heavyweight journeymen who would give these lads a few competitive rounds before going down to their expected defeat.

MachoMan09 wrote:The margin between profit and loss is a fine one for boxing promoters. Okay big, stadium-filling PPV events can net them a fortune but run of the mill prospect building shows are a difficult balancing act to pull-off.

I'd genuinely welcome your thoughts on this one Macho given your background running your own business, but I'm increasingly thinking that the traditional smaller shows are simply a broken/redundant business model in a tail-spin i.e. less revenues (TV etc) requires tighter control of costbase = poorer fight card which in turns means less and less fans attending.
My gut instinct is that you've got to adopt a similar approach to the UFC - put on far less in terms of volume throughout the year but make each one you do a real 'event' in terms of number of fights on the card and nature of the matches. Invest in better production values as well to attract fans and reignite TV interest.
Ultimately, as with any business, if something isn't working any more you have to find a radical solution....

MachoMan09 wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:Why are we not bringing over Americans for these lads?

Is that rhetorical, mate? I will answer anyway.

Money. An overweight, Latvian doorman will fight for less money than an overweight, American doorman; and his flights are cheaper. It is no more complicated than that.

The margin between profit and loss is a fine one for boxing promoters. Okay big, stadium-filling PPV events can net them a fortune but run of the mill prospect building shows are a difficult balancing act to pull-off.

Its all to do with money for sure, but reading 'current scene' and seeing how much the average journeyman is on over there - plus the recent pound-US Dollar exchange - you could have probably got some decent names to come over here up until very recently. Frank Bruno/Gary Mason were brought up on American journeymen and the lighter weight fighters were brought in Mexicans (of varying quality) when Duff/Barrett/Lawless ran the show. I wouldn't suggest for one moment that Frank Maloney (who does a good job for the main part it has to be said) bring in American heavyweights for every show but it would stomach seeing Daniel Peret for the 25th time if we could balance Euro journeymen with stateside journeymen (who could help sell the promotion with their talk and boasting amongst the media and bring the punters in)

MachoMan09 wrote: Small hall boxing promoters/managers should look at the music industry for inspiration, rather than other sports. The music industry's existing business model was decimated by the birth of the internet - Napster etc. They floundered for a while and have now begun to adapt.

Artists now build a 'relationship' with fans via YouTube, their own websites and social networking. They engage fans on a frequent basis (more than once a week); they talk to them through the lens and let them in on practice sessions, demos, first performances etc etc. The fans connect with the artist and are more than happy to pay to watch them in a big stadium concert or pay to watch a closed door online acoustic concert, buy merchandise etc.

New artists have to 'connect' in order to succeed. If they get it right, it is a licence to print money for the music companies and the artist. If they get it wrong, it is no longer as expensive failure as it once was. Launching a career is cheaper than it ever has been (in relative terms).

If a fight promoter gets his online marketing right, people will pay to watch a live online stream. That is the only way a small hall promoter can hope to survive nowadays and turn a decent profit.

We should be able to pay to watch live sparring sessions.

Up and comers should be putting more effort into building a relationship with potential ticket buyers.

etc...

Yep, there's a lot of truth in that, though the music industry left it waaaay too late to adapt and suffered a lot of 'bloodshed' in the interim. I still think the UFC is a good benchmark in terms of monetising different revenue streams. For example, the way they make an absolute killing from merchandise.
The problem with existing promoters is that they don't use digital marketing properly - I had this debate some months ago with Mr Payne who pointed out that they all have Facebook pages etc, but as I said at the time, they've established the platforms but they don't know how to leverage them properly and from memory I used a similar example to the one you've mentioned here re. a stream of a live sparring session.
Have you read 'Free' by Chris Anderson as he goes into great depth re. the type of business model you're describing? It's the same guy who wrote 'The Long Tail'.

MachoMan09 wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:Why are we not bringing over Americans for these lads?

Is that rhetorical, mate? I will answer anyway.

Money. An overweight, Latvian doorman will fight for less money than an overweight, American doorman; and his flights are cheaper. It is no more complicated than that.

The margin between profit and loss is a fine one for boxing promoters. Okay big, stadium-filling PPV events can net them a fortune but run of the mill prospect building shows are a difficult balancing act to pull-off.

You are so wrong, the usa dollor is much cheap that the euro, Most american doorman do not have passports or would fail the bbbofc medical. All so their records do not all ways stand up. For this show we did try 3 American Heavyweights. Please post up some names of the American Doorman on here and we will look at tham. All so maybe we should put David Price in for the title in his very first pro fight, that maY MAKE ALL YOU SO CALL FANS HAPPY.

MachoMan09 wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote: Is that rhetorical, mate? I will answer anyway.

Money. An overweight, Latvian doorman will fight for less money than an overweight, American doorman; and his flights are cheaper. It is no more complicated than that.

The margin between profit and loss is a fine one for boxing promoters. Okay big, stadium-filling PPV events can net them a fortune but run of the mill prospect building shows are a difficult balancing act to pull-off.

Its all to do with money for sure, but reading 'current scene' and seeing how much the average journeyman is on over there - plus the recent pound-US Dollar exchange - you could have probably got some decent names to come over here up until very recently. Frank Bruno/Gary Mason were brought up on American journeymen and the lighter weight fighters were brought in Mexicans (of varying quality) when Duff/Barrett/Lawless ran the show. I wouldn't suggest for one moment that Frank Maloney (who does a good job for the main part it has to be said) bring in American heavyweights for every show but it would stomach seeing Daniel Peret for the 25th time if we could balance Euro journeymen with stateside journeymen (who could help sell the promotion with their talk and boasting amongst the media and bring the punters in)

A return flight from Riga can be less than 200 quid, one/two nights in a Premier Inn costs sixty quid and a purse of less than a grand costs, well, less than a grand. You can get yourself a ready to go, Latvian heavyweight, all-in for less than 1200 quid (including exes). You'll not get a Yank for anything close to that when flights, work visas etc are taken into consideration. It's the way it is.

PLEASE FIND ME SOME JOURNEYMEN WHO WOULD FIGHT FOR LESS THAN A GRAND PLEASE I BEG YOU .AND BY THE WAY YOU DO NOT NEED WORK VISAS FOR AMERICAN BOXERS.

I thought as much with the dollar/pound exchange rate it would be more financially viable to bring over Americans - it would be nice just like the good old days Frank! I think Lawless/Duff and Barrett used an agent called... ahhhhh forgot his name! But he would be the guy who could get hold of opponents for Frank Bruno...

Wh would I LOVE to see over here Frank are these fellers

Emerson Running Bear - never seen him fight but tell us you can't put bums on seats with a fighter like that coming over to fight Tom Dallas.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Tyler Hinkley - a native American - tough, squat and a good fighter - would give David Price 6 good rounds though Price would outbox him - saw his fights on youtube - I like him!

And Matt Hicks for Larry O! Stacy is on here - you could make that happen easily I reckon.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

FtmPress wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote: Its all to do with money for sure, but reading 'current scene' and seeing how much the average journeyman is on over there - plus the recent pound-US Dollar exchange - you could have probably got some decent names to come over here up until very recently. Frank Bruno/Gary Mason were brought up on American journeymen and the lighter weight fighters were brought in Mexicans (of varying quality) when Duff/Barrett/Lawless ran the show. I wouldn't suggest for one moment that Frank Maloney (who does a good job for the main part it has to be said) bring in American heavyweights for every show but it would stomach seeing Daniel Peret for the 25th time if we could balance Euro journeymen with stateside journeymen (who could help sell the promotion with their talk and boasting amongst the media and bring the punters in)

A return flight from Riga can be less than 200 quid, one/two nights in a Premier Inn costs sixty quid and a purse of less than a grand costs, well, less than a grand. You can get yourself a ready to go, Latvian heavyweight, all-in for less than 1200 quid (including exes). You'll not get a Yank for anything close to that when flights, work visas etc are taken into consideration. It's the way it is.

PLEASE FIND ME SOME JOURNEYMEN WHO WOULD FIGHT FOR LESS THAN A GRAND PLEASE I BEG YOU .AND BY THE WAY YOU DO NOT NEED WORK VISAS FOR AMERICAN BOXERS.

Look Frank, I have never promoted a show in my life. I am not telling you what to do but once upon a time - promoters did bring over yanks and Mexicans to fight our boxers and one thing you can use them for over the Latvians is to help you sell the show - interviews with the media would stoke interest in seeing these guys fight your boys. I would pay to go along to watch Dallas, Larry O, Pricey, Damian Campbell box decent American journeymen for sure. It used to work in the old days.

Deserter wrote:

FtmPress wrote:

funso banjo baby wrote:ok Larry v ferguson was a step up altho dsnt promise too many fireworks

but now dallas and Price have been given the usual fodder...fat, bald, latvian imports who just flop about throwing one punch a round.


i will not be going to this one


it is rubbish

So why do you not stop moaning and get a promoters or matchmakers license and show us how to do the job and build up fighter and let them devl. into good fighters.

Sorry, but that's a piss-poor response. Paying customers in boxing are continually let down and the answer is not to come up with jibes like this but rather to address the short-comings and put on shows that constitute genuine value for money. No wonder the sport is dying when this is the attitude...

x2

MachoMan09 wrote:

FtmPress wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote: A return flight from Riga can be less than 200 quid, one/two nights in a Premier Inn costs sixty quid and a purse of less than a grand costs, well, less than a grand. You can get yourself a ready to go, Latvian heavyweight, all-in for less than 1200 quid (including exes). You'll not get a Yank for anything close to that when flights, work visas etc are taken into consideration. It's the way it is.

PLEASE FIND ME SOME JOURNEYMEN WHO WOULD FIGHT FOR LESS THAN A GRAND PLEASE I BEG YOU .AND BY THE WAY YOU DO NOT NEED WORK VISAS FOR AMERICAN BOXERS.

I was trying to defend your card, Frank. You don't have to be so hostile all the time. Some of us are on your side. Anyhow... my point stands. It is far cheaper to bring in a Latvian journeyman than an American. That's the crux of the argument and I know I'm right.

yeah you are right , im a fan of frank and have actually just bought his autobiography a couple of days ago , so as said above were not trying to criticise , at the end of the day we are the guys you make your money from , so it IS worth listening to us from time to time , and as a white collar promotor , i can say from my experience its DEFINATELY cheaper to use eastern european journeman that americans , ii know its not the same high costs as it is in the pros but its still relative to it all , the flights are where the extra cost is , plus america will have a higer cost of living than say latvia , so american fighters will want a higher purse , as far as fighters that would come over from america , i dont know about heavies but i know tim witherspoon jnr has already been over once or twice , think he fights at lightweight , if he came over to fight a prospect his name alone would put extra bums on seats .

to be fair Frank has matched me up with british guys the last 3 fights and they were/are all step ups

dave ferguson is a good fight...not knocking that at all

damianhucker1 wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:

FtmPress wrote: PLEASE FIND ME SOME JOURNEYMEN WHO WOULD FIGHT FOR LESS THAN A GRAND PLEASE I BEG YOU .AND BY THE WAY YOU DO NOT NEED WORK VISAS FOR AMERICAN BOXERS.

I was trying to defend your card, Frank. You don't have to be so hostile all the time. Some of us are on your side. Anyhow... my point stands. It is far cheaper to bring in a Latvian journeyman than an American. That's the crux of the argument and I know I'm right.

yeah you are right , im a fan of frank and have actually just bought his autobiography a couple of days ago , so as said above were not trying to criticise , at the end of the day we are the guys you make your money from , so it IS worth listening to us from time to time , and as a white collar promotor , i can say from my experience its DEFINATELY cheaper to use eastern european journeman that americans , ii know its not the same high costs as it is in the pros but its still relative to it all , the flights are where the extra cost is , plus america will have a higer cost of living than say latvia , so american fighters will want a higher purse , as far as fighters that would come over from america , i dont know about heavies but i know tim witherspoon jnr has already been over once or twice , think he fights at lightweight , if he came over to fight a prospect his name alone would put extra bums on seats .

No one is being hostile and we do listen and read these forums, And take onbroad what the fans say Do you not think we would not use USA fighter before eastern europeans is much easyer to speak with them as they speak English. But there are less American Heavyweights about now, all so quite a few of them come over here and just throw thereselfs on the floor. I have no promb. with any of you guys coming up with names for us to look at. I can tell you now is much cheaper to use a American than a Eastern Europen what is worth more 5000 euros or 5000 usa dollars, since when have you even paid white collar boxers or what medical do they have to pass to be able to come here and box and what broad do they have to be pass by. There a lot more to bring a boxer in than just coming up with names.

It is make or break for British heavyweight prospect Tyson Fury when he faces John McDermott in a mandated rematch at Brentwood this Friday night (June 25).
Fury, of course, took a controversial decision over McDermott last September in a 10-rounder he was fancied to win clearly. Perhaps this had something to do with the furore that resulted from referee Terry O'Connor's verdict. Fury had been given the full hype treatment by ITV Sport in a series of quick, spectacular wins and expectations were great. In the event he met an experienced man who stretched him past the early rounds and made him look beatable, nothing more, nothing less, but the backlash was similar to the one currently endured by the overhyped England football team in South Africa. People are whipped up by the media into expecting so much more, perhaps too much.
A giant of a man with undoubted strength and power and surprising speed, Fury is still in the novice ranks after just 10 professional fights, still a heavyweight baby at 22, and his future remains bright. Nevertheless, his preparations for this fight have been blighted by a split with Manchester trainer Brian Hughes MBE, a proven coach, for his uncle, Hughie Fury, an ex-pro who is unproven in the corner, and by recent internet banter in which the fighter admitted to being grossly overweight, a lack of sparring partners, and a possible bail-out. The internet is hardly the most reliable of sources, one should add. Who knows the truth?
Ironically, it was McDermott who was renowned for a lack of conditioning prior to their first clash but he whipped himself into great shape, fought hard and did look desperately unlucky not to get the verdict. It wasn't even close, according to O'Connor, who made it 98-92. Promoter Frank Maloney was fit to be tied again, dating back to an iffy stoppage suffered by Lennox Lewis against Oliver McCall, and more seriously, suffered a minor heart attack at ringside. It was a desperately unhappy period for Maloney, who discovered the body of depressed Irish boxer Darren Sutherland around this time. Maloney is a survivor, and all reports from his camp suggest that McDermott has trained hard again. The 30-year-old McDermott has good boxing ability and his form over the last few years has also been good, with wins over Scott Gammer and Pele Reid and a couple of tight defeats to Danny Williams. He is on his own Essex manor in Brentwood.
Originally, I fancied Fury to get the better of McDermott on Friday, and he does stand a puncher's chance, particularly in the early rounds; however, his recent bizarre switch of trainers and those unsubtantiated doubts about his training, or lack of it, are enough for me to tilt the balance the other way. McDermott now looks the pick.

FTM Press

First of all, Well done for coming on here and liasing with fans. I think that it shows that you have an interest in what we want to see. I think that that is very important taking the game forward. Franks being at it longer then 90% of us and obviously understands the blueprint to building interest in fighters, Lennox Lewis was managed impecibly.

I do totally agree with the posters who have said they want to see an end to these foreigners, particuarly the fat ones, coming over taking on our prospects. Its a bit embarassing when we've got the UFC guys- highly trained, fighting machines and absolute grafters appearing on TV one night representing MMA and then the next night some fat, croation milkman called nvksndffn fnknfkafnvic, with a 12-8 record representing the boxing.

Also, where is the relevance- I can kind of see Danny Peret- Dallas as relevant, as much as its going to be an eyesore for as long as it lasts but Price Vs Palokovic with 7 losses in his last 8, and one stoppage?? Whats the point. Why not just give both parties £500 quid, add a win on to Prices record and save all the time spent training and putting the thing together.

How much of a part do you (FTM Press) get to play in the whole production of the show on Sky? Do you not think its time that its presentation was revised. There is no sort of progression ever explained, they do little to raise the profile of the actual fighters- other then those little subheadings that come on when their entering the ring.

I'm positive I could do a better job then that- give me a few quid a week and a chance to make a few changes and I bet I could make some really good changes and start moving the sport forward again instead of backward. As a promoter I wouldn't be satisfied with the job Sky are doing with my promotions.

You need decent size, mini documentries- you need previous fights- you need a good pre fight analysis. You need other relevant activity in the division discussed regardless of the broadcastor or promotor. Plus tons of other things.