BoxRec

Frazier wins this by points due to his work rate. Would be a great fight tho.

Liston, hands down.

Dangerous fight for Joe early, but even more dangerous for Sonny late.

The referee pulls Joe off Sonny in the 12th.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Liston, hands down.

Hands may be down, but votes are currently running 90% in the other direction.

That's pretty much the way I see it too.

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Liston, hands down.

Hands may be down, but votes are currently running 90% in the other direction.

How many have offered explanations?

Joe is my boy, but I hate this fight for him. Sonny's jab is bad news here. No doubt that Frazier would make a fight of it. But I see a TKO in around 10 with Joe's face being a mess and him getting floored a few times with stuff he can barely see.

My two favorite Heavyweights are Holyfield & Frazier. Liston would have been kryptonite for both of them imo.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Liston, hands down.

Hands may be down, but votes are currently running 90% in the other direction.

How many have offered explanations?

Well, apparently many don't feel the need for an explanation.

Maybe they have that image of Sonny on the canvas looking up at Ali or the one of Sonny getting flattened by Leotis Martin.

Maybe they should re-think their position, however.

I mean, that Ali knockout punch in Lewiston was clearly one of the most devastating, awe-inspiring punches in fistic history and doubtless would have stunned a Cape Buffalo. ;;-)

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Joe is my boy, but I hate this fight for him. Sonny's jab is bad news here. No doubt that Frazier would make a fight of it. But I see a TKO in around 10 with Joe's face being a mess and him getting floored a few times with stuff he can barely see.

My two favorite Heavyweights are Holyfield & Frazier. Liston would have been kryptonite for both of them imo.

Joe gets under the jab and pulls out Sonny's liver.

(and heart)

Liston destroys any pressure fighter who comes right at him, including my beloved Dempsey and including Joe Frazier.

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Joe is my boy, but I hate this fight for him. Sonny's jab is bad news here. No doubt that Frazier would make a fight of it. But I see a TKO in around 10 with Joe's face being a mess and him getting floored a few times with stuff he can barely see.

My two favorite Heavyweights are Holyfield & Frazier. Liston would have been kryptonite for both of them imo.

Joe gets under the jab and pulls out Sonny's liver.

(and heart)

He isn't getting under that jab, he would have to go through it and there is more nasty stuff waiting for him. I really can't give Joe more than a 10 or 20% chance here.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Joe is my boy, but I hate this fight for him. Sonny's jab is bad news here. No doubt that Frazier would make a fight of it. But I see a TKO in around 10 with Joe's face being a mess and him getting floored a few times with stuff he can barely see.

My two favorite Heavyweights are Holyfield & Frazier. Liston would have been kryptonite for both of them imo.

Joe gets under the jab and pulls out Sonny's liver.

(and heart)

He isn't getting under that jab, he would have to go through it and there is more nasty stuff waiting for him. I really can't give Joe more than a 10 or 20% chance here.

10-20% is ridiculous.

Like I said, this is a dangerous fight early on for Joe, but I think heart prevails.

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote: Joe gets under the jab and pulls out Sonny's liver.

(and heart)

He isn't getting under that jab, he would have to go through it and there is more nasty stuff waiting for him. I really can't give Joe more than a 10 or 20% chance here.

10-20% is ridiculous.

Like I said, this is a dangerous fight early on for Joe, but I think heart prevails.

It's a horrible style match up for frazier. All you are saying is he takes his heart. That's easier said than done. Sonny was a tough dude.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He isn't getting under that jab, he would have to go through it and there is more nasty stuff waiting for him. I really can't give Joe more than a 10 or 20% chance here.

10-20% is ridiculous.

Like I said, this is a dangerous fight early on for Joe, but I think heart prevails.

It's a horrible style match up for frazier. All you are saying is he takes his heart. That's easier said than done. Sonny was a tough dude.

Hey, you are starting to convince me. Keep at it.

He had to have been tough to quit on his stool in Miami as the freaking heavyweight champion of the freaking world and actually get up from that awe-inspiring punch in Lewiston.

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:
10-20% is ridiculous.

Like I said, this is a dangerous fight early on for Joe, but I think heart prevails.

It's a horrible style match up for frazier. All you are saying is he takes his heart. That's easier said than done. Sonny was a tough dude.

Hey, you are starting to convince me. Keep at it.

He had to have been tough to quit on his stool in Miami as the freaking heavyweight champion of the freaking world and actually get up from that awe-inspiring punch in Lewiston.

Yeah, that was definitely a prime Liston. He won a fight with a broken jaw if memory serves me right. Joe "quit" on his stool too. Since when does losing to Ali make you a joke?

Whatever your viewpoint, you are well above pointing to Liston's fights with Ali to make your point, Yancey. Mentioning the KO to Ali & quitting on his stool? You're more knowledgeable than that --- we could get that kind of inspection on Liston in Current Scene.

I don't have a problem with someone giving Frazier a 20% shot. Liston is not just going to give up his heart like that. Anyone think Liston was a soft touch, & couldn't hack a real fight? THINK AGAIN.

Although I agree with the voting here I'm also surprised at the good judgment being displayed.

Can't say the same of the Quarry Bugner thread where Jerry has only a one vote lead presently.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Whatever your viewpoint, you are well above pointing to Liston's fights with Ali to make your point, Yancey. Mentioning the KO to Ali & quitting on his stool? You're more knowledgeable than that --- we could get that kind of inspection on Liston in Current Scene.

I don't have a problem with someone giving Frazier a 20% shot. Liston is not just going to give up his heart like that. Anyone think Liston was a soft touch, & couldn't hack a real fight? THINK AGAIN.

GI,

You're right.

No excuses, but I guess I was trying to contrast legitimate issues with the heart and how the two men stacked up in that area.

Both men lost twice to Ali, but only one of them had losses that were honorable, to my way of thinking.

I agree with the expressed sentiment that Liston was past his prime for the Ali fights, but a real champ should go out on his shield, like Frazier did with your guy.

The style matchup is indeed a bad one for Frazier, but giving him only a 10-20% chance of winning against Liston is just all wrong, in my view.

btw, it is still a landslide at the polls. DD

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
It's a horrible style match up for frazier. All you are saying is he takes his heart. That's easier said than done. Sonny was a tough dude.

Hey, you are starting to convince me. Keep at it.

He had to have been tough to quit on his stool in Miami as the freaking heavyweight champion of the freaking world and actually get up from that awe-inspiring punch in Lewiston.

Yeah, that was definitely a prime Liston. He won a fight with a broken jaw if memory serves me right. Joe "quit" on his stool too. Since when does losing to Ali make you a joke?

Not a joke at all......

when the loss is an honorable one.

dempseyfire wrote:Liston destroys any pressure fighter who comes right at him, including my beloved Dempsey and including Joe Frazier.

My initial thoughts as well, although he never faced any such fighter in the league of a Joe Frazier. I gave my vote to Sonny in this one, but it's more of a coinflip fight than anything. I can see Sonny busting Joe up as he comes in over and over, and I can see Frazier breaking through and battering Liston in close.

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote: Hey, you are starting to convince me. Keep at it.

He had to have been tough to quit on his stool in Miami as the freaking heavyweight champion of the freaking world and actually get up from that awe-inspiring punch in Lewiston.

Yeah, that was definitely a prime Liston. He won a fight with a broken jaw if memory serves me right. Joe "quit" on his stool too. Since when does losing to Ali make you a joke?

Not a joke at all......

when the loss is an honorable one.

Liston never 'quit' on his stool . . .that is a myth:


From the Syracuse Post:

"Liston said he wanted to continue but was overruled by his trainer, Willie Reddish, and Nilon. "I wanted to come out anyway," Liston said. "Losing the title was like the day the president got shot."

Eight doctors, including Dr. Leonard rassin, a top orthopedist, all signed a report as to the injury, a tear of the tendon at the top of the biceps connecting it to the shoulder."

I am going for Frazier. I just feel he had better movement than Liston and more dig in his punches,

Have to go with Sonny in this one.

dempseyfire wrote:
Liston never 'quit' on his stool . . .that is a myth:


From the Syracuse Post:

"Liston said he wanted to continue but was overruled by his trainer, Willie Reddish, and Nilon. "I wanted to come out anyway," Liston said. "Losing the title was like the day the president got shot."

Eight doctors, including Dr. Leonard rassin, a top orthopedist, all signed a report as to the injury, a tear of the tendon at the top of the biceps connecting it to the shoulder."

I'm sure that if Liston wanted to continue, he would have. I'm also sure that Liston suffered a legitimite injury, but that most fighters would have fought through it.

wouter wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:
Liston never 'quit' on his stool . . .that is a myth:


From the Syracuse Post:

"Liston said he wanted to continue but was overruled by his trainer, Willie Reddish, and Nilon. "I wanted to come out anyway," Liston said. "Losing the title was like the day the president got shot."

Eight doctors, including Dr. Leonard rassin, a top orthopedist, all signed a report as to the injury, a tear of the tendon at the top of the biceps connecting it to the shoulder."

I'm sure that if Liston wanted to continue, he would have. I'm also sure that Liston suffered a legitimite injury, but that most fighters would have fought through it.

Exactly.