BoxRec

12 Rounds:
I say Dempsey wins by TKO around round 7

I think Lewis would win.

Much bigger, more skilled, and I think he punches harder as well. If he got his great jab going Dempsey would have a very long night. By today's standards Dempsey has poor technique and would be considered very raw, not to mention he would be a cruiserweight. Lewis was very good at using his height and reach, and I think Dempsey would be kept on the outside, where he would miss with most of his wild power shots. I think Lewis would effectively utilize his size and skill advantages and emerge victorious.

crusader wrote:I think Lewis would win.

Much bigger, more skilled, and I think he punches harder as well. If he got his great jab going Dempsey would have a very long night. By today's standards Dempsey has poor technique and would be considered very raw, not to mention he would be a cruiserweight. Lewis was very good at using his height and reach, and I think Dempsey would be kept on the outside, where he would miss with most of his wild power shots. I think Lewis would effectively utilize his size and skill advantages and emerge victorious.

If a 37 yr old Holyfield can giv Lewis so much trouble, wat do u think a prime wrecking machine like Dempsey is gonna do to him. Trust me Lewis could never handle a prime Dempsey. I don't care wat u say about size etc. To me Lewis never demonstrated the heart to go into the realmes of discomfort, and thats where Dempsey will take him from the opening bell. It would just be a matter of time before he caves in, and goes down.

Lewis had better handspeed??? What??

The poster who said Dempsey skillwise was 'crude' didn't know what he was talking about.

Great match, I favor Dempsey by knockout early. Lewis was often too lazy with his left to not be caught with something big at some point.

dempseyfire wrote:Lewis had better handspeed??? What??

The poster who said Dempsey skillwise was 'crude' didn't know what he was talking about.

Great match, I favor Dempsey by knockout early. Lewis was often too lazy with his left to not be caught with something big at some point.

If Dempsey was fighting today he would most certainly be considered crude. Many of his punches were wide and telegraphed and his footwork was quite poor. Among many other technical blunders, he would often lift one of his feet completely off the ground when he was throwing a punch. I do not know of many contemporary fighters who routinely commit these errors yet are considered to be anything other than raw, rugged, or crude.

Since I don't know what I'm talking about can you post some links to the videos that show how refined Dempsey's technique is. I can find countless videos of Dempsey looking very poor from a technical perspective.

In my opinion power, skill, and obviously size favor Lewis. Sometimes he was content with jabbing his way to a decision victory and sometimes he took more chances and really let the heavy artillery go. If Lewis decided on the former, he wins a wide decision. If he chooses the later, I think he can stop Dempsey.

crusader wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Lewis had better handspeed??? What??

The poster who said Dempsey skillwise was 'crude' didn't know what he was talking about.

Great match, I favor Dempsey by knockout early. Lewis was often too lazy with his left to not be caught with something big at some point.

If Dempsey was fighting today he would most certainly be considered crude. Many of his punches were wide and telegraphed and his footwork was quite poor. Among many other technical blunders, he would often lift one of his feet completely off the ground when he was throwing a punch. .

This is not poor footwork or sloppy technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wxHY3p9DiQ
Even rusty and past it vs Tunney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRjSsuP ... re=related


To the contrary, Dempsey had excellent footwork for a pressure fighter. Always on his toes, ready to spring into a counter, and always positioning himself so that he could turn to give his shoulder for defense.


Joe Frazier, to the contrary, was much more flatfooted and more squared up, never deflecting punches off of the shoulder with the chin tucked.

I don't know what you are talking about when you say lift one foot off the ground. To the contrary lifting one foot off the ground when you spring in to close distance, especially against a much taller fighter, is standard boxing technique. Hopping off the ground or spirnging with both feet in the air is not, but Dempsey did not do those things

gambler49 wrote:

crusader wrote:I think Lewis would win.

Much bigger, more skilled, and I think he punches harder as well. If he got his great jab going Dempsey would have a very long night. By today's standards Dempsey has poor technique and would be considered very raw, not to mention he would be a cruiserweight. Lewis was very good at using his height and reach, and I think Dempsey would be kept on the outside, where he would miss with most of his wild power shots. I think Lewis would effectively utilize his size and skill advantages and emerge victorious.

If a 37 yr old Holyfield can giv Lewis so much trouble, wat do u think a prime wrecking machine like Dempsey is gonna do to him. Trust me Lewis could never handle a prime Dempsey. I don't care wat u say about size etc. To me Lewis never demonstrated the heart to go into the realmes of discomfort, and thats where Dempsey will take him from the opening bell. It would just be a matter of time before he caves in, and goes down.

I don't think Dempsey would beat a 37 year old Holyfield at all.

I'd take Lennox here, but Jack would have a big chance early.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gambler49 wrote:

crusader wrote:I think Lewis would win.

Much bigger, more skilled, and I think he punches harder as well. If he got his great jab going Dempsey would have a very long night. By today's standards Dempsey has poor technique and would be considered very raw, not to mention he would be a cruiserweight. Lewis was very good at using his height and reach, and I think Dempsey would be kept on the outside, where he would miss with most of his wild power shots. I think Lewis would effectively utilize his size and skill advantages and emerge victorious.

If a 37 yr old Holyfield can giv Lewis so much trouble, wat do u think a prime wrecking machine like Dempsey is gonna do to him. Trust me Lewis could never handle a prime Dempsey. I don't care wat u say about size etc. To me Lewis never demonstrated the heart to go into the realmes of discomfort, and thats where Dempsey will take him from the opening bell. It would just be a matter of time before he caves in, and goes down.

I don't think Dempsey would beat a 37 year old Holyfield at all.

I'd take Lennox here, but Jack would have a big chance early.

Dempsey would rip Holy a new exit hole!! Even a prime Holyfield.

gambler49 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gambler49 wrote: If a 37 yr old Holyfield can giv Lewis so much trouble, wat do u think a prime wrecking machine like Dempsey is gonna do to him. Trust me Lewis could never handle a prime Dempsey. I don't care wat u say about size etc. To me Lewis never demonstrated the heart to go into the realmes of discomfort, and thats where Dempsey will take him from the opening bell. It would just be a matter of time before he caves in, and goes down.

I don't think Dempsey would beat a 37 year old Holyfield at all.

I'd take Lennox here, but Jack would have a big chance early.

Dempsey would rip Holy a new exit hole!! Even a prime Holyfield.

Maybe on Fantasy Island.

gambler49 wrote: Dempsey would rip Holy a new exit hole!! Even a prime Holyfield.

holyfield was one of the greatest warriors to ever step in the ring. dempsey is also an all-time warrior but he'd have hell winning this fight, imo.

crusader wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Lewis had better handspeed??? What??

The poster who said Dempsey skillwise was 'crude' didn't know what he was talking about.

Great match, I favor Dempsey by knockout early. Lewis was often too lazy with his left to not be caught with something big at some point.

If Dempsey was fighting today he would most certainly be considered crude. Many of his punches were wide and telegraphed and his footwork was quite poor. Among many other technical blunders, he would often lift one of his feet completely off the ground when he was throwing a punch. I do not know of many contemporary fighters who routinely commit these errors yet are considered to be anything other than raw, rugged, or crude.

Since I don't know what I'm talking about can you post some links to the videos that show how refined Dempsey's technique is. I can find countless videos of Dempsey looking very poor from a technical perspective.

In my opinion power, skill, and obviously size favor Lewis. Sometimes he was content with jabbing his way to a decision victory and sometimes he took more chances and really let the heavy artillery go. If Lewis decided on the former, he wins a wide decision. If he chooses the later, I think he can stop Dempsey.

"Dempsey's footwork was quite poor."

Yikes

I pick Dempsey here for the same reason I pick a prime Tyson. Lewis is too slow to keep reactionary pace, & too fragile to absorb the incoming.

However, I would give hima good shot here. Just wouldn't favour him. Dempsey early.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

crusader wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Lewis had better handspeed??? What??

The poster who said Dempsey skillwise was 'crude' didn't know what he was talking about.

Great match, I favor Dempsey by knockout early. Lewis was often too lazy with his left to not be caught with something big at some point.

If Dempsey was fighting today he would most certainly be considered crude. Many of his punches were wide and telegraphed and his footwork was quite poor. Among many other technical blunders, he would often lift one of his feet completely off the ground when he was throwing a punch. I do not know of many contemporary fighters who routinely commit these errors yet are considered to be anything other than raw, rugged, or crude.

Since I don't know what I'm talking about can you post some links to the videos that show how refined Dempsey's technique is. I can find countless videos of Dempsey looking very poor from a technical perspective.

In my opinion power, skill, and obviously size favor Lewis. Sometimes he was content with jabbing his way to a decision victory and sometimes he took more chances and really let the heavy artillery go. If Lewis decided on the former, he wins a wide decision. If he chooses the later, I think he can stop Dempsey.

"Dempsey's footwork was quite poor."

Yikes

I pick Dempsey here for the same reason I pick a prime Tyson. Lewis is too slow to keep reactionary pace, & too fragile to absorb the incoming.

However, I would give hima good shot here. Just wouldn't favour him. Dempsey early.

Yes it was. I have watched countless videos of him and know just as much or more about boxing technique as you do. He had quick feet, I will admit that, but he often lifted them completely off the ground or had them misplaced. His body positioning was also extremely square as a result of having his feet nearly parallel to each other so frequently. To add to these things, he would virtually run at his opponent many times throughout a bout. Despite this, some people seem to regard his technique as impressive, when in reality it is no better than David Tua's. In fact, Edwin Valero (while he was on his one round KO streak) resembled Dempsey quite a bit.

In the first 50 seconds or so of the first video, Dempsey routinely commits some of the previously mentioned errors. He fights too square, lifts his feet off the ground, and throws telegraphed punches that are wild and wide. Same thing goes for the second video. What do you think about Dempsey's technical prowess at 4:22, where he literally jumps straight in the air and tries to land a backhand while doing a 180? I imagine if a fighter tried that today, most people would criticize his form, but since it is Jack Dempsey, a person "doesn't know what they are talking about" if they are less than impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSEEXIe6Gg

Aside from his footwork/body positioning, Dempsey typically threw wide, telegraphed punches that would leave him open to counter attacks down the middle. Lewis had a great jab and Dempsey would be on the receiving end of it when he tried to get inside with these types of attacks. I disagree that Lewis is slow. He was never a speed demon but for a big guy his speed was average at worst. His jab would come out of no where and his right hand was supriginslgy quick, which allowed him to score with it time after time.

I also disagree that Lewis would be too fragile. Yes, he was stopped twice, but in those cases he was hit flush on the chin with loaded up right hands from guys with good pop. Any heavyweight, including Dempsey, would have been badly hurt. Lewis took many good shots from Mercer, Klitschko, and several other hard hitters through out his career. So, while he does not have a great chin, I don't think he has a poor one. Add to this the fact that Dempsey is an average sized cruiser weight and I don't see Lewis going down and out as soon as he is hit. Sure Dempsey can catch him, however, I think it is more likely Lewis finishes the bout on his feet with his hand raised.

His speed, "for a big guy..."

That matters nought. It only matters if he's quick enough to get out the way. He isn't. Briggs had him rocking & rolling, & Rahman & McCall ended him with single shots.

Dempsey is far & away too dangerous a puncher for Lewis to survive if he starts getting bombed.

I like Lewis to KO Dempsey and here's why. Dempsey's only chance is to KO him, he can't win rds vs Lewis. You take them at their best and you have to give it to Lewis. Meeting Harry Wills would have answered a lot of questions. It's hard to just assume Dempsey destroys anyone. The Willard he fought in 1919 was not the Willard of 1915, for instance. Outside chance of a gutty decision loss performance for Dempsey like Mavrovic. But even then Lewis was not at his best. Tough night for Dempsey:
Lewis KO4

Goodnight, Irene wrote:His speed, "for a big guy..."

That matters nought. It only matters if he's quick enough to get out the way. He isn't. Briggs had him rocking & rolling, & Rahman & McCall ended him with single shots.

Dempsey is far & away too dangerous a puncher for Lewis to survive if he starts getting bombed.

I don't think Lewis would find himself in a situation where he starts getting bombed. I think he would take advantage of his size and keep Dempsey on the outside with his jab and right hand. Lewis was also handy on the inside and would be able to use his uppercut to score when Dempsey got in close or he could always tie up. I see Dempsey having major trouble getting past the Lewis jab and I don't think he can beat him from a distance. Lewis is so much bigger than Demspey but he is much more talented and skilled than the giants who fell to the "Manassa Mauler". Rushing at him wildly will not do the trick.

Lewis has the advantages of size, power, and technique. He was a well rounded fighter with very good boxing skills and I think that is enough to overcome the speed and ferocity of Dempsey.

crusader wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

crusader wrote: If Dempsey was fighting today he would most certainly be considered crude. Many of his punches were wide and telegraphed and his footwork was quite poor. Among many other technical blunders, he would often lift one of his feet completely off the ground when he was throwing a punch. I do not know of many contemporary fighters who routinely commit these errors yet are considered to be anything other than raw, rugged, or crude.

Since I don't know what I'm talking about can you post some links to the videos that show how refined Dempsey's technique is. I can find countless videos of Dempsey looking very poor from a technical perspective.

In my opinion power, skill, and obviously size favor Lewis. Sometimes he was content with jabbing his way to a decision victory and sometimes he took more chances and really let the heavy artillery go. If Lewis decided on the former, he wins a wide decision. If he chooses the later, I think he can stop Dempsey.

"Dempsey's footwork was quite poor."

Yikes

I pick Dempsey here for the same reason I pick a prime Tyson. Lewis is too slow to keep reactionary pace, & too fragile to absorb the incoming.

However, I would give hima good shot here. Just wouldn't favour him. Dempsey early.

Yes it was. I have watched countless videos of him and know just as much or more about boxing technique as you do. He had quick feet, I will admit that, but he often lifted them completely off the ground or had them misplaced. His body positioning was also extremely square as a result of having his feet nearly parallel to each other so frequently. To add to these things, he would virtually run at his opponent many times throughout a bout. Despite this, some people seem to regard his technique as impressive, when in reality it is no better than David Tua's. In fact, Edwin Valero (while he was on his one round KO streak) resembled Dempsey quite a bit.

In the first 50 seconds or so of the first video, Dempsey routinely commits some of the previously mentioned errors. He fights too square, lifts his feet off the ground, and throws telegraphed punches that are wild and wide. Same thing goes for the second video. What do you think about Dempsey's technical prowess at 4:22, where he literally jumps straight in the air and tries to land a backhand while doing a 180? I imagine if a fighter tried that today, most people would criticize his form, but since it is Jack Dempsey, a person "doesn't know what they are talking about" if they are less than impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSEEXIe6Gg

Aside from his footwork/body positioning, Dempsey typically threw wide, telegraphed punches that would leave him open to counter attacks down the middle. Lewis had a great jab and Dempsey would be on the receiving end of it when he tried to get inside with these types of attacks. I disagree that Lewis is slow. He was never a speed demon but for a big guy his speed was average at worst. His jab would come out of no where and his right hand was supriginslgy quick, which allowed him to score with it time after time.

I also disagree that Lewis would be too fragile. Yes, he was stopped twice, but in those cases he was hit flush on the chin with loaded up right hands from guys with good pop. Any heavyweight, including Dempsey, would have been badly hurt. Lewis took many good shots from Mercer, Klitschko, and several other hard hitters through out his career. So, while he does not have a great chin, I don't think he has a poor one. Add to this the fact that Dempsey is an average sized cruiser weight and I don't see Lewis going down and out as soon as he is hit. Sure Dempsey can catch him, however, I think it is more likely Lewis finishes the bout on his feet with his hand raised.

Look at any Dempsey fight and anyone with two eyes can see the wide majority of his punches were not wide and telegraphed. As for his footwork, again, he did not leap up with both feet as you are saying. He often did spring forward to close distance . . which is something every pressure fighter does vs taller opponents. And fighting squared up is something all pressure fighters do as well, from Frazier to Tyson, but Dempsey still fought with his shoulder turned and chin tucked much better than Tyson or Frazier did to deflect punches with his shoulder and he remains the most skilled HW at bobbing and weaving to ever fight.

As for the Firpo fight, sure Dempsey got into a brawl and technique got sloppy in that bout . . happens to tons of fighters. Still, judging from the film vs Willard, Brennan, Tunney, sparring with Tate, Gibbons etc; one with a trained eye can easily see a very skilled fighter. But hey, only I and 'some people' think that . . .as in everyone who ever saw him fight and who lived through Louis, Walctt, Charles, Ali etc.

I think Dempsey could win a decision, if not stop Lewis late in the fight; 10th round stoppage maybe

I'd imagine this as a close fight...in terms of who would win but most of the scenarios would unfold into what would appear to be fairly one-sdied fights.

Dempsey can come in under the jab and with his edge in speed make Lewis pay. On the other hand Lewis can bring over the right and finish it.

I hesitate to say that Lewis could also win by using his dimensions and jab. Dempsey is far superior to Tua and would not be easily tamed. His footwork and speed means that he will always have chances.

Lewis might actually be better off turning this into an out and out brawl like the Firpo fight. His size may see him come off better. If Lennon tries to tame him with the jab then at some point it gets slipped and Dempsey will unload. Although Johnson described Dempsey as a slasher he was a pretty accurate puncher even when past it.

I think the blueprints for this fight are in the Firpo fight and the Briggs/Holyfield II fights.