BoxRec

Apparently we don't have to wonder who would win. I imagine someone used the Hot Tub Time Machine to make this happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0PJS1NJ ... re=related

Im a big fan of JCC, but Pac wins this IMO... The problem wiv most BOTP posters is that they are hung up on the past champs. I just keep it real no matter wat........

De La Hoya as the stand-in for both, there.

I used to go with Chavez, but I now suspect Pacquiao's rare blend of unusual rhythm, mean punching prowess, high activity (like Taylor, but with a punch) &, above all, his tremendous speed see him through.

It's tough, though. Pacquiao does love a war, & even he couldn't trade punch-for-punch with Chavez directly forever without wilting, IMO. Chavez is certainly not Hatton, at any rate.

60-40 Pacquiao, IMO. That's at Jr. Welter, btw.

Pac convincingly at any weight. They would be very exciting fights, but not close on the cards. I think Manny would stop him at 130.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Pac convincingly at any weight. They would be very exciting fights, but not close on the cards. I think Manny would stop him at 130.

I couldn't imagine any1 stopping JCC in his prime. but it's possible I spose.

gambler49 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Pac convincingly at any weight. They would be very exciting fights, but not close on the cards. I think Manny would stop him at 130.

I couldn't imagine any1 stopping JCC in his prime. but it's possible I spose.

130 wasn't his prime and I couldn't imagine anyone stopping Erik Morales either.

Chavez was like Jones career-wise. He rose at 130, and probably peaked at 135, but his stay there was brief and he moved up again to dominate at 140 where he really made his bones as P4P #1.

Anyway, Chavez beats Pacquiao at any weight. Pacquiao is hard to judge because we have yet to see him peak and fall, but obviously Chavez hurt his rep by fighting on long after he should've retired. Regardless, you don't beat Chavez by coming at him and trading the way the temperamental Pacquiao undoubtedly would, and as soon as Chavez began hurting Pacquiao to the body (where he's always seemed more vulnerable) Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. Chavez would undoubtedly hunt him down and break him apart, finishing him very late in a bruising battle.

Cotto was always a poor man's Chavez with a weak chin and as easy as he found Pacquiao when they fought Julio would easily stand in there and start a war of attrition like what Morales had given him, only with greater force.

Rocky Lockridge and Juan LaPorte came right at Chavez and had plenty of success. I don't hold his older fights against him. What I do hold against him is that he never beat a great fighter. Something that Manny has accomplished many times over.

Does anyone really see this as a slam-dunk for either man?

No way, IMO.

I do, but I doubt that surprises you.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I do, but I doubt that surprises you.

True

I guess I will say if I was forced to pick either one to dominate, I would say Pacquiao, not Chavez.

I still see a terrific give-&-take, though.

I don't think it would be one sided from an action stand point.

To tell you the truth, I just do not know what to make of Pacquiao's toughness. He gets battered, cut, marked up, hit plenty --- comes through it all, mind, but no one like Chavez has been able to land on him a-plenty. If Pacquiao lost, it would be because he availed himself to the worst gut-beating he ever dreamed of.

Easy to see Chavez having major, major problems with Pacquiao's unorthodox rhythm, blistering speed, & great power, on the other hand.

Me thinks a prime Chavez would have battered Pacman for the full 12 rounds

Pac continues to amaze me and he seems to be able to do almost anything in the sport. Chavez was similarly a great fighter for a long time. Think Saad’s being overly harsh on the Mexican.

I can’t be sure on who would win. My feeling in big puncher meets iron jaw is that iron jaw usually wins. Don’t know if that’s 100% based on logic and historical evidence or if it just seems like it to me…

Wouldn’t be surprised by any result in this one.

Chavez is another of those guys who get overly mythologized b/c it was hard not to root for such a come-forward, tough, TOUGH fighter.

But come on, fair stoppage or not he got a semi-gift in the first Taylor fight b/c Meldrick was looking at Lou Duva's stupid screaming face and not Steele's. After that you have good solid wins over the likes of Ramirez,Rosario and Lockridge . . fighters not even NEAR a Manny Pacquao. Hell, Meldrick Taylor with his lack of power is not even in that league.

Manny's stamina, punching power, footwork, and southpaw stance, over the course of the fight, would seriously F Chavez up, who was simply not fast enough to keep up, and his usual breakdown pressure strategy wouldn't work vs a fighter with Manny's chin and staying power.

Maybe not a stoppage win prime for prime but Manny would be the clear winner.

Diamond WEAPON wrote: Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. .

That statement makes no sense. Marquez is a slick counter hitting boxer-puncher. It's a lot easier to box and use movement vs a guy like David Diaz (which Manny did) or JCC, than a great counter-puncher like JMM.

I don't get it when people bring up Manny's two close fights with Marquez as some sort of knock on Pacquao. Hell, I think Marquez could've beaten Chavez as well.

dempseyfire wrote:Chavez is another of those guys who get overly mythologized b/c it was hard not to root for such a come-forward, tough, TOUGH fighter.

But come on, fair stoppage or not he got a semi-gift in the first Taylor fight b/c Meldrick was looking at Lou Duva's stupid screaming face and not Steele's. After that you have good solid wins over the likes of Ramirez,Rosario and Lockridge . . fighters not even NEAR a Manny Pacquao. Hell, Meldrick Taylor with his lack of power is not even in that league.

Manny's stamina, punching power, footwork, and southpaw stance, over the course of the fight, would seriously F Chavez up, who was simply not fast enough to keep up, and his usual breakdown pressure strategy wouldn't work vs a fighter with Manny's chin and staying power.

Maybe not a stoppage win prime for prime but Manny would be the clear winner.

With all honesty that is how I see it too. I think Chavez would survive the 12 rounds, but I see Pac winning this something like 9-3 or 8-4. No disrespect to Chavez but I think Pac speed, power, and awkwardness give him the clear advantage. I think Juan M. Marquez is a better boxer than Chavez. Though I think Chavez was the better fighter with a better chin. I just don’t see Chavez out- boxing Pac.

dempseyfire wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote: Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. .

That statement makes no sense. Marquez is a slick counter hitting boxer-puncher. It's a lot easier to box and use movement vs a guy like David Diaz (which Manny did) or JCC, than a great counter-puncher like JMM.

I don't get it when people bring up Manny's two close fights with Marquez as some sort of knock on Pacquao. Hell, I think Marquez could've beaten Chavez as well.

Agreed, Morales too.

+1 for Pacqauio. Reasons stated above I agree with.

dempseyfire wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote: Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. .

That statement makes no sense. Marquez is a slick counter hitting boxer-puncher. It's a lot easier to box and use movement vs a guy like David Diaz (which Manny did) or JCC, than a great counter-puncher like JMM.

I don't get it when people bring up Manny's two close fights with Marquez as some sort of knock on Pacquao. Hell, I think Marquez could've beaten Chavez as well.

Yeah, completely agree.

Pacman is a better fighter than he was for the Marquez fights also, so I don't believe that version should be used as much as a comparison as he is.

dempseyfire wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote: Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. .

That statement makes no sense. Marquez is a slick counter hitting boxer-puncher. It's a lot easier to box and use movement vs a guy like David Diaz (which Manny did) or JCC, than a great counter-puncher like JMM.

I don't get it when people bring up Manny's two close fights with Marquez as some sort of knock on Pacquao. Hell, I think Marquez could've beaten Chavez as well.

It makes perfect sense, I was saying Manny's overrated as a boxer. He tried to oubox Marquez and was getting countered like mad, the way he made that fight close was by imposing his will more than anything. I'm not necessarily using it as a knock on Pacquiao either, it's only a knock on him to those who choose to act as though Pacquiao's some unbeatable force because he beat the shell of DLH, a chinny Cotto, and Clottey, a guy who put up less of a fight than Bantamweight Joseph Agbeko probably would've.

The point is, Manny isn't Whitaker, so no, he won't be flustering Chavez the way Pernell did, Manny is a fairly rudimentary defensive/movement boxer, really not much different than say, Aaron Pryor, Chavez would have little problem finding and hitting him, just as Cotto and Clottey did when they decided to sack up.

jBacca wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote: Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. .

That statement makes no sense. Marquez is a slick counter hitting boxer-puncher. It's a lot easier to box and use movement vs a guy like David Diaz (which Manny did) or JCC, than a great counter-puncher like JMM.

I don't get it when people bring up Manny's two close fights with Marquez as some sort of knock on Pacquao. Hell, I think Marquez could've beaten Chavez as well.

Yeah, completely agree.

Pacman is a better fighter than he was for the Marquez fights also, so I don't believe that version should be used as much as a comparison as he is.

He's the same fighter, he's simply been fighting worse (albeit larger) competition, and thus looking more impressive. Marquez was a better boxer than Cotto, Clottey, Hatton, and DLH at their stages combined.

dempseyfire wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote: Pacquiao will start trying to box JCC, only problem is Pacquiao really isn't the great mover some make him out to be, otherwise Marquez would've been wiped out when he tried to box Pacquiao in the second fight. .

That statement makes no sense. Marquez is a slick counter hitting boxer-puncher. It's a lot easier to box and use movement vs a guy like David Diaz (which Manny did) or JCC, than a great counter-puncher like JMM.

I don't get it when people bring up Manny's two close fights with Marquez as some sort of knock on Pacquao. Hell, I think Marquez could've beaten Chavez as well.

Comparing Chavez to David Diaz is absolutely ridiculous, have fun gurgling on Pacquiao's cum you fuckin fanboy.

BTW, I love how some of you act as though Chavez has never been hit by big dynamic punchers before. He had no problems with Meldrick Taylor's speed, which like Pacquiao's is almost entirely offensive, he had no problem battering the slick Roger Mayweather, he had no problem walking through the bombs of a harder puncher in Edwin Rosario, he had no problem walking around and joyfully beating the shit out of the slicker and quicker Camacho, but apparently this all means nothing, because Pacquiao's the soup du jour and like Mike Tyson is unbeatable by anyone from the past now apparently simply because he's beating guys who aren't nearly good enough to be giving him the props that he's getting for defeating them.

Also, Chavez would've killed the emotional Morales in a fire-fight worse than Barrera did. MAB got Morales into a brawl and came out on top, and Barrera has always been a smaller, weaker Chavez-type. Marquez would've been hammered out too, just as he too nearly was against Barrera before Jay Nady made the fornicate-up of the year and the judges handed the belt to JMM.