BoxRec

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

Sugar Ray Leonard

Roberto Duran

Evander Holyfield

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

GranberryReturns wrote:Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

Sugar Ray Leonard

Roberto Duran

Evander Holyfield

Why?

Larry Holmes perhaps has the weakest resume, but the others are some of the best fighters p4p in boxing history. Not saying they are the only ones or the best, but they surely deserve a place amongst the best of the best imo.

Idisagree wrote:

GranberryReturns wrote:Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

Sugar Ray Leonard

Roberto Duran

Evander Holyfield

Why?

Larry Holmes perhaps has the weakest resume, but the others are some of the best fighters p4p in boxing history. Not saying they are the only ones or the best, but they surely deserve a place amongst the best of the best imo.

They are all creations of the media.

How are they a creation of the media?

Ali has an impressive resume that nobody can deny. Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Williams, Terrell, Foley, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Elis, Mathis, Norton, Foreman, Bugner, Shavers, and Spinks. IF that is not an impressive resume then I don’t know what is.

Same thing with Leonard. What is not impressive about his accomplishments? Wins over Benitez, Duran, Hagler, and Hearns.

Duran do I really need to defend his resume? One of the best complete fighters ever. Solid Offense, defense, footwork, speed, and ring smarts. Great chin and there is no shame in losing to Hearns who was a monster puncher and way too big for Duran.

Holyfield prime for prime one of the toughest fighters of any era.

For my money they did prove themselves more than once and they deserve the recognition that they got from the media.

Oscar

TROLL

Chavez is now and forever my answer to this question.

Jimmy Young for sure.

Woller

1. Wlad
2. Peter
3. Tua
4. Vitali
5. Ruiz
6. Any other heavweight of the last ten years.

BarryWashington wrote:Kostya Tszyu: So overrated. He wasn't anything special and never beat anyone worth of recognition (other than Hurtado and that "TKO" over Zab was similar to McCall over Lewis, where both fighters - Lewis & Judah, clearly were hurt BUT could also go on, however; the referee in both fights made a premature stoppage.)
Nassem Hamed: See explanation for Tszyu
Floyd Mayweather Jr. : I'm a fan of Mayweather Jr. and think he gets hated on a little excessively, but; if you talk to his fans they will tell you with a straight face that he is the greatest boxer of all-time.
Mike Tyson: I have a soft spot for Mike, but; his career after Tyson/Ruddock II is a dreadful one, and he performed terribly against his best opponents. Though people do tend to undermine some of the opponents he beat during his '85-'88 "prime".
Felix Trinidad: He's getting overrated as time passes by. He did not win that De La Hoya fight and a lot of the opponents he did beat before meeting greater challenges gave him very tough fights, but Tito's power was able to pull him out of those situations. I'll give him some credit for his wins against Mayorga and Vargas, but; it's impossible to forget Wright and Hopkins shitting on him.
and I'll leave one more and his name is . . .
David Tua: The highs? He puts up a competitive fight against Ibeabuchi and destroys Ruiz. That is it. He was get out-classed in the first Rahman fight before he landed a bomb, and in the second Rahman fight he clearly lost it but was granted a gift decision. Lennox made him look like an incompetent sparring partner. Byrd dominated Tua from start to finish. I'd like to watch the Maskaev/Tua and Oquendo/Tua fights to see how David did there, but; I can imagine Oquendo dominating before being KO'd. And I didn't see the Barrett/Tua fight, but (trusting BoxRec); it does not sound like Tua deserved a draw whereas Barrett should have be named the victor.

Tszyu: I wouldn't call especially over-rated. His resume lacks a super-star victim, but that's not unheard of among great fighters. He had a strong career, built on consistency, power, & timing. He's no all-time legend, but he's still a great fighter for mine, who not a lot of people talk up. I disagree that Judah was stopped prematurely (& I think Lewis had no case to continue, either). Expect a visit from our very own Man-Mountain, TzyuForever

Hamed: I would disagree with this more strongly. While it's patently clear he had obvious limitations, both physically & psychologically (mentally too, if you ask me D ), I don't know when I last heard anyone talk Hamed up. If he's mentioned, it's only to shoot him down. I wouldn't call him over-rated, not at all.

Mayweather: Don't blame the fans. They are among the most simplistic in the sport today, & in fairness, they got their line about his greatness from the man himself. It's not as if they thought it up themselves. Don't shoot the parrot!

Tyson: I have mixed feelings about him. IMO, anyone who denies he was one of the most explosive & devastating forces in division history is, to my eyes, delusional. Tyson could've beaten some of the greats. It is because I think so highly of him that I must agree with you --- relative to his talent, it is difficult to find a fighter who had such an under-whelmingly, iredeemably dull career. It isn't one-tenth what it should be for a fighter of his class. Over-rated? Yes, Sir --- but with the proviso I think he was so much more than his detractors routinely report.

Trinidad: You pin-pointed his punch as having seen him through some rough patches, but let me direct your attention to two other facets of the man's game. Extreme conditioning (anyone remember the way he showed up De La Hoya at that medical with their readings? Unreal), & iron-clad desire. Trinidad had some really severe short-comings --- he was the least gifted of his generation (among the stars, that is). There are an awful lot of great & even good fighters who would make him look a fool between 147 & 160lbs. However, he did anything to win, & did have some decent (not great) skills to match his courage, commitment, & explosive punch. A little over-rated perhaps, yes.

Tua: I could not agree with you more. An out-of-shape Rahman (a terrible fighter, in any condition) made a fool of him twice. The sh!t goes on & one with Tua. He looks beautiful whenever a stiff stands in front of him, but the minute someone who can box a lick & has heard of the term, "counter-punching" appears, the man is back to square-one. Over-rated in his hey-day...over-rated now. I bet his new-found physique lasts about as long as the World Cup, & is just as rarely seen.

Floyd Mayweather. One fighter that will become overrated,Joe Calzaghe.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Chavez is now and forever my answer to this question.

His resume isn`t as impressive as one might think.

Jpreisser wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Chavez is now and forever my answer to this question.

His resume isn`t as impressive as one might think.

I disagree; Chavez was a machine until his lifestyle; almost inevitable due to his popularity and status; caught up with him. He cut down all in front of him for years after turning pro young. He had hard bouts and was lucky on occasion. What I admire is that he boxed in non title fights - to keep sharp, earn money and put on a show. How many top (or any at all) champions box in non title affairs? Chavez was a great fighter that (like many) fought on too long and when he lost, often he couldn't accept or admit it. A flawed, great fighter.

simon fox wrote:

Jpreisser wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Chavez is now and forever my answer to this question.

His resume isn`t as impressive as one might think.

I disagree; Chavez was a machine until his lifestyle; almost inevitable due to his popularity and status; caught up with him. He cut down all in front of him for years after turning pro young. He had hard bouts and was lucky on occasion. What I admire is that he boxed in non title fights - to keep sharp, earn money and put on a show. How many top (or any at all) champions box in non title affairs? Chavez was a great fighter that (like many) fought on too long and when he lost, often he couldn't accept or admit it. A flawed, great fighter.

Agreed, & while he probably lacks a true, undisputed superstar victim, he beat some very, very good competition in a sterling career.

King Geedorah wrote:

GranberryReturns wrote:Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

Sugar Ray Leonard

Roberto Duran

Evander Holyfield

'Media creations', I am sure I saw Duran physically manifest himself and twat Moore's face in. Who created these phantastic 'figments', God? Solaris? The sphere from the movie Sphere?

That was one badass Sphere...

Jack Johnson
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano

Overrated lists are very very subjective.

You might say a fighter is overrated because people you know talk non-stop about him and think he's the greatest. Or you might read threads in which people praise him that another person might not read.

Any fighter can be deemed overrated.

King Geedorah wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

King Geedorah wrote: 'Media creations', I am sure I saw Duran physically manifest himself and twat Moore's face in. Who created these phantastic 'figments', God? Solaris? The sphere from the movie Sphere?

That was one badass Sphere...

Aye, almost as bad as Ali's ring record, which is poop, and a lie, though this means that it could be the opposite of poop as a lie usually conceals the direct opposite.

True DAT.

It was probably the most badass individual in the form of a generic, basic shape in movie history.

Jack Johnson-Not a top 5 all-time HW for me
Roy Jones Jr and Floyd Mayweather Jr-Supremely talented but lacked to desire to prove themselves regularly enough in their higher weights.
Judah-Once ranked amongst the top 3 or 4 p4p...then became a 4 round fighter
Ricky Hatton

simon fox wrote:

Jpreisser wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Chavez is now and forever my answer to this question.

His resume isn`t as impressive as one might think.

I disagree; Chavez was a machine until his lifestyle; almost inevitable due to his popularity and status; caught up with him. He cut down all in front of him for years after turning pro young. He had hard bouts and was lucky on occasion. What I admire is that he boxed in non title fights - to keep sharp, earn money and put on a show. How many top (or any at all) champions box in non title affairs? Chavez was a great fighter that (like many) fought on too long and when he lost, often he couldn't accept or admit it. A flawed, great fighter.

I am not saying I don`t respect him,I am not saying he isn`t great. I love title holders that take non-title fight and I appreciate alot of the qualities he had. I am just saying that his resume wasn`t as impressive as one would lead you to believe. For the sake of saying it though......every great fighter,scratch that...every fighter has flaws.

At the same time, it is a quite impressive resume, taken in whole.

Until Chavez lost to Pernell Whitaker; (which he did, from a fan); Chavez had dominated; totally. He was built for lightweight and junior welter; above that his natural advantages were negated. Frankie Randell was a very fine boxer who beat Chavez twice in honesty; that is no disgrace as just about every great has a bogeyman and Randell was a a top flight box fighter. I loved to see Chavez box when he was in his pomp and prime; he ought to have retired after Pernell.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:At the same time, it is a quite impressive resume, taken in whole.

I will agree to that. Especially by todays standards.

I don't think Chavez is overrated. His accomplisments more than qualify him as one of the great champions.