BoxRec

I agree, on account of because.

xxoldwarriorxx wrote:Not sure if this topic has been discussed but I think Frazier would be too much for "The Rock".

Why do you think?

Agree.

I think the end for Rocky in this one would be pretty brutal. Down two or three times, his face horrific, and the ref mercifully stopping it.

Yes this has come up before, and that's why I was so flippant I apologize to the contributor. Seriously, Joe is just bigger,faster,stronger and a bit more slippery. I can simply count more ways that he wins than ways that Marciano prevails. And because of their shared nature, like Yancey says...it would be a brutal ending.

A bit like an extended version of the first round of the first Quarry, Frazier affair. Where slowly but surely the bigger man imposes his will and forces his opponent eventually backwards and eventually to the deck IF the ref doesn't call it off. It's not pretty.

BoxBuzz wrote:Yes this has come up before, and that's why I was so flippant I apologize to the contributor. Seriously, Joe is just bigger,faster,stronger and a bit more slippery. I can simply count more ways that he wins than ways that Marciano prevails. And because of their shared nature, like Yancey says...it would be a brutal ending.

A bit like an extended version of the first round of the first Quarry, Frazier affair. Where slowly but surely the bigger man imposes his will and forces his opponent eventually backwards and eventually to the deck IF the ref doesn't call it off. It's not pretty.

Not so sure I see it so clear-cut for Frazier.

I wouldn't be surprised no matter who wins, really. With these styles, advantages can often mean less than they do in other fights. Frazier's advantages in speed, weight, & the like are a good example. No one would say they wouldn't be factors, obviously, but I feel their impact diminished in a bout like this.

Frazier would be the hot favourite. Marciano a live underdog.

Frazier may be bigger, but Marciano is physically stronger. Joe was not that strong, Marciano was extremely strong. Marciano also has the biggest advantage one could have in a toe to toe battle...a huge edge in two fisted power to Joe's left hook. marciano can bang with both hands, frazier only one. These are key factors that enable me to determine why Marciano will get Joe outta there. Make no mistake about it, Marciano can easily match if not surpass joe's pace, especially late in the fight.


Rocky by Late Knockout

Rocky vs Odin RM KO 4
Rocky vs Zeus RM KO 5

Even with his hammer Thor would be no match.

Rocky never lost.......and never will. So forget about it.

Come on, it's no worse than the Frazier fanatics who have an excuse for EVERY Frazier loss.

There's one fella in here who has Frazier as #1 heavyweight of all time.

Well if all the folks who had Marciano as the #1 would trade up to Frazier, credibility would be on the rise.

Seriously if you have Rocky at number one there is no reason you couldshould not seriously consider Joe holding that same slot.

Based on my set of bias's and what I look for in a fighter, I would have a hard time rating either at number one because they had no real functional reverse gear. And in my book that's just too limiting to be considered the best of the best. But for many it suits them fine.

Darling has no "O" in his name (though at one time he possessed several) and now suffers from "zero envy". So he worships the rOck. And he stares at the bOx buzz moniker for hours on end.

Ok I'm going overboard here. I'm pining for those old day when literally every other thread was a Marciano Thread.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well if all the folks who had Marciano as the #1 would trade up to Frazier, credibility would be on the rise.

Seriously if you have Rocky at number one there is no reason you couldshould not seriously consider Joe holding that same slot.

Based on my set of bias's and what I look for in a fighter, I would have a hard time rating either at number one because they had no real functional reverse gear. And in my book that's just too limiting to be considered the best of the best. But for many it suits them fine.

Darling has no "O" in his name (though at one time he possessed several) and now suffers from "zero envy". So he worships the rOck. And he stares at the bOx buzz moniker for hours on end.

Ok I'm going overboard here. I'm pining for those old day when literally every other thread was a Marciano Thread.

I thought we'd both agreed we wouldn't post when we were loaded?

then i would need to maintain internet silence.

BoxBuzz wrote:then i would need to maintain internet silence.

That's a step too far.

I think Frazier would win. He hits just as hard, if not harder than Marciano, has faster hands and feet, and is more skilled as well.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Frazier may be bigger, but Marciano is physically stronger. Joe was not that strong, Marciano was extremely strong. Marciano also has the biggest advantage one could have in a toe to toe battle...a huge edge in two fisted power to Joe's left hook. marciano can bang with both hands, frazier only one. These are key factors that enable me to determine why Marciano will get Joe outta there. Make no mistake about it, Marciano can easily match if not surpass joe's pace, especially late in the fight.


Rocky by Late Knockout

What you forgetting is Marciano was susceptible to a left hook, Walcott dropped Marciano with a left. Also Frazier would have had a big weight advantage, the world class fighters Marciano did fight were all small.

Frazier hurt Ali with a right hand in one fight so to say he was one handed isn't true.

It would have been a war but I think Frazier would be the eventual winner.


.

I thought Moore dropped him with a short right?!? Need to watch it again.

Ezzard wrote:I thought Moore dropped him with a short right?!? Need to watch it again.

my bad, yes it was a right.....I was getting my stats mixed up, it was Ali who was dropped by left hooks from Banks, Cooper and Frazier.

I'm not sure Frazier was any stronger than Marciano. Taking their weights @ their peak performances, I note that Frazier weighed 205 1/2 for his first fight against Ali and Marciano weighed 187 for his rematch against Charles. That's a difference of 18 1/2 pounds, which difference is not so great as to make the "strength" issue a foregone conclusion by any means. To me, it looked like Marciano had a strength advantage in every fight he ever fought, including against guys who outweighed him by the same amount or more than Frazier would have outweighed him.

Both were swarmers but Frazier had a greater punch-rate than Marciano did, and that's saying something. However, Frazier DID seem to run out of gas late a few times (Bonavena II, Ali II and III, Bugner). I think Frazier was a bit quicker, Marciano a bit more durable.

My instinct is that Marciano had better power in his right than Frazier had in his left and probably better overall "2-hand" power. I also suspect that Marciano had the better chin. I use the words "instinct" and "suspect" because all of these conclusions are open to debate, to say the least.

IMO, this is a close fight between 2 GREAT champions. I favor Marciano on about a 51-49 basis, but, again, it's a very very close call.

If ever there were a hypothetical bout with respect to which reasonable minds could differ, then this is the one.

BarryWashington wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Frazier may be bigger, but Marciano is physically stronger. Joe was not that strong, Marciano was extremely strong. Marciano also has the biggest advantage one could have in a toe to toe battle...a huge edge in two fisted power to Joe's left hook. marciano can bang with both hands, frazier only one. These are key factors that enable me to determine why Marciano will get Joe outta there. Make no mistake about it, Marciano can easily match if not surpass joe's pace, especially late in the fight.


Rocky by Late Knockout

If we made a thread about the Greek God Zeus vs. Rocky Marciano you would find a way to tell us Marciano would win it. It's pretty hard to be taken as an objective poster with a name like that.

I only rate Marciano 5th all time at heavyweight. I would say that is an average fair ranking. I also pick several heavyweight champions to beat him h2h. Joe Frazier is not one of them.


I think the fact you were judgemental about my assessment of marciano based upon my screen name, without reading into my pasts posts to see my true feelings of Marciano...shows your ignorance

BoxBuzz wrote:Well if all the folks who had Marciano as the #1 would trade up to Frazier, credibility would be on the rise.

Seriously if you have Rocky at number one there is no reason you couldshould not seriously consider Joe holding that same slot.

Based on my set of bias's and what I look for in a fighter, I would have a hard time rating either at number one because they had no real functional reverse gear. And in my book that's just too limiting to be considered the best of the best. But for many it suits them fine.

Darling has no "O" in his name (though at one time he possessed several) and now suffers from "zero envy". So he worships the rOck. And he stares at the bOx buzz moniker for hours on end.

Ok I'm going overboard here. I'm pining for those old day when literally every other thread was a Marciano Thread.

No one has Marciano # 1 all time. That is in your imagination. You are a hater, plain and simple. Get your head out of your ass.

Controversial wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Frazier may be bigger, but Marciano is physically stronger. Joe was not that strong, Marciano was extremely strong. Marciano also has the biggest advantage one could have in a toe to toe battle...a huge edge in two fisted power to Joe's left hook. marciano can bang with both hands, frazier only one. These are key factors that enable me to determine why Marciano will get Joe outta there. Make no mistake about it, Marciano can easily match if not surpass joe's pace, especially late in the fight.


Rocky by Late Knockout

What you forgetting is Marciano was susceptible to a left hook, Walcott dropped Marciano with a left. Also Frazier would have had a big weight advantage, the world class fighters Marciano did fight were all small.

Frazier hurt Ali with a right hand in one fight so to say he was one handed isn't true.

It would have been a war but I think Frazier would be the eventual winner.


.

If you go by that logic, then one could say Joe Frazier is susceptible to a right hand. Oscar Bonavena did the trick twice. Frazier may have a big weight advantage, but he was a slight bit hefty. Rocky didn't have an ounce of fat on him...I personally think Marciano was just as physically strong as Frazier if not stronger. Moore, Louis, Charles, Layne all called Marciano "The physically strongest I have ever fought, by far". Frazier competed in a strength competition in the 70s, aired on TV, he scored embarrassingly low scores. If you watch Fraziers fight with Quarry, Quarry manhandles joe in the clinches. In round 1 of their first fight, Quarry pushes joe back continuosly and almost pushes him out of the ring.

Frazier hurt Ali with a right hand in one fight so to say he was one handed isn't true.

His right hand was not a hard punch. Not even close. It was just there. Even his biggest fans will admit this. Marciano had a very hard left hook to compliment his Suzy Q right hand.


Great fight...I like Marciano.


ps This forum has really hit rock bottom though. I have been here longer than nearly anyone..but there is a reason why I prefer East Side Boxing to this forum.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Well if all the folks who had Marciano as the #1 would trade up to Frazier, credibility would be on the rise.

Seriously if you have Rocky at number one there is no reason you couldshould not seriously consider Joe holding that same slot.

Based on my set of bias's and what I look for in a fighter, I would have a hard time rating either at number one because they had no real functional reverse gear. And in my book that's just too limiting to be considered the best of the best. But for many it suits them fine.

Darling has no "O" in his name (though at one time he possessed several) and now suffers from "zero envy". So he worships the rOck. And he stares at the bOx buzz moniker for hours on end.

Ok I'm going overboard here. I'm pining for those old day when literally every other thread was a Marciano Thread.

No one has Marciano # 1 all time. That is in your imagination. You are a hater, plain and simple. Get your head out of your ass.

xxoldwarriorxx wrote:Not sure if this topic has been discussed but I think Frazier would be too much for "The Rock".

Why do you think?

Dear, xxoldwarriorxx,
May be Somkin' Joe would be too much for Rocky, but only before the fight and out of the ring... In the ring, fighting? Rocky Marciano knocked out Joe Frazier in the first round

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Frazier may have a big weight advantage, but he was a slight bit hefty. Rocky didn't have an ounce of fat on him...I personally think Marciano was just as physically strong as Frazier if not stronger. Moore, Louis, Charles, Layne all called Marciano "The physically strongest I have ever fought, by far". Frazier competed in a strength competition in the 70s, aired on TV, he scored embarrassingly low scores. If you watch Fraziers fight with Quarry, Quarry manhandles joe in the clinches. In round 1 of their first fight, Quarry pushes joe back continuosly and almost pushes him out of the ring

Im not sure why you think Frazier has to be physically stronger to beat Marciano?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Well if all the folks who had Marciano as the #1 would trade up to Frazier, credibility would be on the rise.

Seriously if you have Rocky at number one there is no reason you couldshould not seriously consider Joe holding that same slot.

Based on my set of bias's and what I look for in a fighter, I would have a hard time rating either at number one because they had no real functional reverse gear. And in my book that's just too limiting to be considered the best of the best. But for many it suits them fine.

Darling has no "O" in his name (though at one time he possessed several) and now suffers from "zero envy". So he worships the rOck. And he stares at the bOx buzz moniker for hours on end.

Ok I'm going overboard here. I'm pining for those old day when literally every other thread was a Marciano Thread.

No one has Marciano # 1 all time. That is in your imagination. You are a hater, plain and simple. Get your head out of your ass.

All these years and never a cross word between us......whatever happened to that good working relationship we once had? Anywho....I'm certainly not a hater, and like I say I pick Frazier to win, and I clearly sense that many people are bamboozled and mystified by the power of the "0". It seems to have you worshipping at it's shrine.

No hate....just an observation. Rocky achieved that "0" in an era where Joe and a few others could have done the same. Think Liston could have robbed that "0" the way Spinks took Holme's "0"? Don't answer....what you say could end up being interpreted as hatespeech.