BoxRec

this weekend andy lee, dmitry pirog and sebastian zbik all won fights.

how impressed were ppl by pirog, who destroyed america's daniel jacobs with a 5th round right hand?

how would macklin have got on vs pirog?

did lee and zbik show anything of interest?

I think Macklin and Barker would beat Zbik, and Lee would have a good chance. Zbik is a very poor boxer who only continues to hold a title because he faces very weak opposition and has the judges on his side. He barely got past Spada, won a split decision against some unknown Italian, and won a controversial decision today against an unknown Argentinian with no power and only 16 fights. He continually fights opponents who have no power and little experience. This ensures that the fight will go to the cards and he will get the decision.

I would favor Pirog over Macklin, Barker, Lee, and Zbik. Macklin and Barker would have solid chances but I would heavily favor Pirog over Lee and Zbik. Pirog is a bit slow, but he is very calm and can box, punch, keep up a steady pace over the distance, and his awkward style will likely trouble his future opponents. I don't think Lee has the speed, strength, or stamina to hold off Pirog, and frankly, I don't think he will have much success against any world class opponent. In my opinion he is not that good of a fighter, at least at the highest level. As I said earlier, Zbik is nothing special and continually struggles with fighters much worse than Pirog.

As far as the U.K. born middleweights go, I think Macklin is the best of the bunch, with Barker a close second. Of course, this will change if Barker wins their showdown, which he has a good chance of doing. Lee is a clear third for me. I think he would lose to both Barker and Macklin.

i think it's a good job that macklin-pirog didn't happen. it's not worth fighting someone like pirog for no more than a european title.

i like it when guys like pirog come out with a smashing performance, away from home, on a big show. he seems to be one of those fighters that just does the job, who doesn't need a cheating promoter and doesn't need everything in his favout before a fight happens.

reckn middleweight is a bloody strong division, with martinez, pirog, golovkin, korobov, n'jikam, and of course mackin, barker, lee.

pirog v jacobs was dramatic. i wonder what golovkin v j'jikam will show us. that one could also herald a new talent.

Autobarn wrote:i think it's a good job that macklin-pirog didn't happen.

No Poo !

Im like you Autobarn, im sensing some drama at middleweight over the next 2 years.

On one hand we have the pretenders and jokers that forever talk the talk and never walk the walk.

Then we have the likes of Pirog, Golovkin, Lemieux, N'Dam all going about their business in style.

I hope Golovkin actually fights someone decent. The fight with n' jikam fell through and now he is fighting some guy named Milton Nunez in Mexico for the interim WBA title. Golovkin was supposed to be a star, but his career really stalled. Hopefully with a title, even if it is just an interim one, there will be more opportunities for him.

In my opinion, and it might be a biased one, David Lemieux will be the next top fighter at 160. The kid hits so hard and in my opinion he is one of the best punchers in boxing. Of course I would like to see him show his power against better opposition, but considering his age, he has been brought along properly so far.

Was very impressed with Pirog.

Considering it was his first fight in the States, let alone Vegas, I thought he put on a class display. Jacobs didn't have a clue how to handle him, and Pirog had great variation in his shots. He looks to have good guile about him, with a good, solid style and he seems to pack plenty of power. The KO he produced was one of the KO's of the year so far for me.

Pirog would struggle with Martinez's class, but on his showing last night, he'd be a very good match for anybody us currently campaigning at 160. Pirog vs Pavlik would produce a really good tear up!

i'll have to look up some of this david lemieu's fights. if it means another exciting middleweight entering the ranks.

i'm just starting to realise how deprived middleweight fans were during the hopkins era - aside from a couple of superfights (tito, DLH) from welterweight is was mainly hopkins mugging, play-acting, fouling and leaping in with right hands while his eyes were closed...vs guys like echols and robert allen. effective mebbe, but very ugly & the executioner really seemed to have got dragged down to the level of his opponent more than once.

golovkin is fighting some unknown for the vacant title. but he has to defend vs n'jikam, whose team are pissed off at the fight golovkin has been allowed. unfortunately universum seem to turn all their fighters into soft middle class fighters with no hunger. hopefully golovkin will be different.

hopefully pirog has really opened some doors. a great punch on a big show.

Lemieux vs Ayala was his last outing and he bombed him in a round. It took abraham 12 I think.

Golovkin is the pick for me.. Top class..

Pirog Vs Macklin is a great match and I see it being made if he comes through the Barker fight..

Seen bits of Lemieux recently and think he could be the next big star.

Was impressed with Pirog last night. Sky had him made out to be a big underdog against Jacobs, whereas most fans knew it was a 50/50. Looked quality and very, very confident.

macklin does seem to have made some smart choices, fighting barker for the european rather than just the british title (which it would have been when the fight was first mentioned).

it would be smarter to fight pirog for a world title, rather than a european, for sure.

i just think that with performances like martinez v pavlik and pirog v jacobs, that sebastian sylvester is going to be the most popular middleweight in the world among potential challengers right now.

hopefulyl the macklin-barker winner gets elevated toward some kind of title elim or even a title fight, as it's a high risk, quality fight.

Am I the only one who really doesn't rate Barker? He's Euro level at best imo

I cant believe the judges had Jacobs a couple of rounds ahead by the 5th.

He was Pirog's girlfriend for most of the fight.

If the fight had continued in the same vein to the final bell, Jacobs would statistically have won by 5 rounds !

Autobarn wrote:i
i'm just starting to realise how deprived middleweight fans were during the hopkins era - aside from a couple of superfights (tito, DLH) from welterweight is was mainly hopkins mugging, play-acting, fouling and leaping in with right hands while his eyes were closed...vs guys like echols and robert allen. effective mebbe, but very ugly & the executioner really seemed to have got dragged down to the level of his opponent more than once.

.

In fairness, prime Hopkins would dismantle the likes of Lee, Barker, Macklin Jacobs, Pirog et all.

markp wrote:

Autobarn wrote:i
i'm just starting to realise how deprived middleweight fans were during the hopkins era - aside from a couple of superfights (tito, DLH) from welterweight is was mainly hopkins mugging, play-acting, fouling and leaping in with right hands while his eyes were closed...vs guys like echols and robert allen. effective mebbe, but very ugly & the executioner really seemed to have got dragged down to the level of his opponent more than once.

.

In fairness, prime Hopkins would dismantle the likes of Lee, Barker, Macklin Jacobs, Pirog et all.

there are some formidable challengers coming through though, pirog looks something special and could actually feature in good fights, golovkin looks an excellent pressure fighter with massive amateur pedigree, korobov is also promising.

it was good to see someone in pirog who had offensive skills to go with the defensive skills: someone who can protect himself while fighting positively and aggressively. he really can gorw into an excellent fighter. hopkins didn't really have impressive offensive skills - didn't show that many in his long reign as a middleweight. he had massive awkwardness, defensive instinct and savvy and would try just about any trick if it meant retaining his title. but he used to close his eyes when punching, he used to cuff, he couldn't get a guy out of there when he was behind (taylor). made the most of what he had in a mostly thin era. but we could really get some action if some of these guys get together. thankfully HBO showcased pirog. that doesn't mean they'll have him straight back in a big fight (think maidana, post his smashing of ortiz).

G0mez wrote:I cant believe the judges had Jacobs a couple of rounds ahead by the 5th.

He was Pirog's girlfriend for most of the fight.

If the fight had continued in the same vein to the final bell, Jacobs would statistically have won by 5 rounds !

Bit of a joke that. How many rounds had they given him out the 4?

I had it 2-2, but could easily have been 3-1 Pirog.

If they fight went longer, Pirog would have made Jacobs look very limited (even more so than last night).

jBacca wrote:

G0mez wrote:I cant believe the judges had Jacobs a couple of rounds ahead by the 5th.

He was Pirog's girlfriend for most of the fight.

If the fight had continued in the same vein to the final bell, Jacobs would statistically have won by 5 rounds !

Bit of a joke that. How many rounds had they given him out the 4?

I had it 2-2, but could easily have been 3-1 Pirog.

If they fight went longer, Pirog would have made Jacobs look very limited (even more so than last night).

I don't understand all the fuss with the scoring. I had it 39-37 Jacobs, as did most ppl doing the PBP at the CS, and don't see why there is a problem with that. Aside from the second, what round did Pirog win without doubt? I can guarantee you that I am not a biased American judge who is receiving a nice bonus from Golden Boy.

I felt Jacobs won the first because he was a bit more active near the end and put together some good combos. Pirog obviously won the second as he hurt Jacobs. Jacobs came back and won the third relatively clearly in my opinion and he was far more active and really boxing and moving well. The fourth was close, but again, Jacobs was more active, landing more, and boxing a bit better. Punch stats had him out landing Pirog 23-6 in the round. To say he was Pirog's girlfriend prior to the KO is laughable.

Even TML had it 3-1 Jacobs!

crusader wrote:
I felt Jacobs won the first because he was a bit more active near the end and put together some good combos. Pirog obviously won the second as he hurt Jacobs. Jacobs came back and won the third relatively clearly in my opinion and he was far more active and really boxing and moving well. The fourth was close, but again, Jacobs was more active, landing more, and boxing a bit better. Punch stats had him out landing Pirog 23-6 in the round. To say he was Pirog's girlfriend prior to the KO is laughable.

Even TML had it 3-1 Jacobs!

Well thats your take on it and your entitled to it.

For me, punch stats dont paint the picture of a man back-peddling, whose shots were having no effect. Pirog landed the shots that commanded respect, combined with effective aggression Not ineffective combinations.

Jacobs wasn't even in the fight. He demeanour was of a man who was slowly being chewed up and spat out.

G0mez wrote:

crusader wrote:
I felt Jacobs won the first because he was a bit more active near the end and put together some good combos. Pirog obviously won the second as he hurt Jacobs. Jacobs came back and won the third relatively clearly in my opinion and he was far more active and really boxing and moving well. The fourth was close, but again, Jacobs was more active, landing more, and boxing a bit better. Punch stats had him out landing Pirog 23-6 in the round. To say he was Pirog's girlfriend prior to the KO is laughable.

Even TML had it 3-1 Jacobs!

Well thats your take on it and your entitled to it.

For me, punch stats dont paint the picture of a man back-peddling, whose shots were having no effect. Pirog landed the shots that commanded respect, combined with effective aggression Not ineffective combinations.

Jacobs wasn't even in the fight. He demeanour was of a man who was slowly being chewed up and spat out.

''Jacobs wasn't even in the fight.''

That is a ludicrous statement. Prior to the KO and aside from the second round, Pirog landed nothing significant that had any effect on Jacobs. He came at Jacobs with his awkward head and body movement but always got off second. Although Jacobs was moving back, he was still punching. He would throw combos then move away, while Pirog would only come back with one or two punches, which missed most of the time.

I can understand how someone could have it 38-38 or 39-37 for Pirog, because there were close rounds, but to say Jacobs wasn't even in the fight is ridiculous. Many people had him winning.

crusader wrote:

G0mez wrote:

crusader wrote:
I felt Jacobs won the first because he was a bit more active near the end and put together some good combos. Pirog obviously won the second as he hurt Jacobs. Jacobs came back and won the third relatively clearly in my opinion and he was far more active and really boxing and moving well. The fourth was close, but again, Jacobs was more active, landing more, and boxing a bit better. Punch stats had him out landing Pirog 23-6 in the round. To say he was Pirog's girlfriend prior to the KO is laughable.

Even TML had it 3-1 Jacobs!

Well thats your take on it and your entitled to it.

For me, punch stats dont paint the picture of a man back-peddling, whose shots were having no effect. Pirog landed the shots that commanded respect, combined with effective aggression Not ineffective combinations.

Jacobs wasn't even in the fight. He demeanour was of a man who was slowly being chewed up and spat out.

''Jacobs wasn't even in the fight.''

That is a ludicrous statement. Prior to the KO and aside from the second round, Pirog landed nothing significant that had any effect on Jacobs. He came at Jacobs with his awkward head and body movement but always got off second. Although Jacobs was moving back, he was still punching. He would throw combos then move away, while Pirog would only come back with one or two punches, which missed most of the time.

I can understand how someone could have it 38-38 or 39-37 for Pirog, because there were close rounds, but to say Jacobs wasn't even in the fight is ridiculous. Many people had him winning.

I thought Jacobs only won the third.

Not much to differentiate between the two in the first and fourth, but I liked the way Pirog was coming forward and looking to force it. There didn't seem to be much significance in the punching in these rounds and so I gave them to Pirog on my previous reason.

Pirog looked more dangerous than Jacobs, as evident in the 2nd, and when he turned up the pace he got the stoppage. Was really impressed.

I had Jacobs 3-1 up but it was obviously from the second that he wasn't going 12

I had it 2-2 but with Jacobs only winning rounds by nicking them on back foot whereas Pirog was impressive in coming forward and really just out-manning Jacobs. I was cheering for Pirog from the start, absolutely love it when these guys come over from Europe and upset these american kids who have been spoon-fed bums.

Just shows how padded a lot of these DLH fighter's records are. Is DLH becoming the new allegedly?

I think DLH takes more risks than allegedly, but they don't seem to be paying off. The majority of Jacob's career has been spent stopping overweight Mexicans in a few rounds. Golden Boy really must have thought Pirog was bad to let Jacobs fight him, because Jacobs was not ready for a world class opponent. I'm not just saying that in hindsight. Jacobs looked poor against Walker, Smith, and Walton (his three best opponents prior to last night) and Walker and Walton are pretty bad.

Jacobs needed a couple more fights against decent opponents. He had gone ten rounds once in his career and never faced someone with decent pop. He still had room to improve. Pirog was not a big name, he did not have an amazing amateur career, and was not backed by a huge promoter or company like HBO, but look at his record. He came up the right way. He got the experience and was fully prepared for this fight.

crusader wrote:I think DLH takes more risks than allegedly, but they don't seem to be paying off. The majority of Jacob's career has been spent stopping overweight Mexicans in a few rounds. Golden Boy really must have thought Pirog was bad to let Jacobs fight him, because Jacobs was not ready for a world class opponent. I'm not just saying that in hindsight. Jacobs looked poor against Walker, Smith, and Walton (his three best opponents prior to last night) and Walker and Walton are pretty bad.

Jacobs needed a couple more fights against decent opponents. He had gone ten rounds once in his career and never faced someone with decent pop. He still had room to improve. Pirog was not a big name, he did not have an amazing amateur career, and was not backed by a huge promoter or company like HBO, but look at his record. He came up the right way. He got the experience and was fully prepared for this fight.

You've gotta wonder why Jacobs hadn't been in a scheduled 12 rounder before, why he was only a 96-93 winner on 2 cards over Smith (with Smith deducted a point). Why hadn't GBP matched him to get rounds on the clock rather than easy KO's? GYM aren't rushing Lemiuex as they know he's not ready despite having a 23-0(22) record he's fought only 52 rounds, blowing out stiffer competition in Ayala last time out than anyone Jacobs had beaten other than smith. Someone like Lorenzo, Ikeke, Rubio etc should have been in with Jacobs.

iamasadlittleboy wrote:

crusader wrote:I think DLH takes more risks than allegedly, but they don't seem to be paying off. The majority of Jacob's career has been spent stopping overweight Mexicans in a few rounds. Golden Boy really must have thought Pirog was bad to let Jacobs fight him, because Jacobs was not ready for a world class opponent. I'm not just saying that in hindsight. Jacobs looked poor against Walker, Smith, and Walton (his three best opponents prior to last night) and Walker and Walton are pretty bad.

Jacobs needed a couple more fights against decent opponents. He had gone ten rounds once in his career and never faced someone with decent pop. He still had room to improve. Pirog was not a big name, he did not have an amazing amateur career, and was not backed by a huge promoter or company like HBO, but look at his record. He came up the right way. He got the experience and was fully prepared for this fight.

You've gotta wonder why Jacobs hadn't been in a scheduled 12 rounder before, why he was only a 96-93 winner on 2 cards over Smith (with Smith deducted a point). Why hadn't GBP matched him to get rounds on the clock rather than easy KO's? GYM aren't rushing Lemiuex as they know he's not ready despite having a 23-0(22) record he's fought only 52 rounds, blowing out stiffer competition in Ayala last time out than anyone Jacobs had beaten other than smith. Someone like Lorenzo, Ikeke, Rubio etc should have been in with Jacobs.

I completely agree. Maybe now that Jacobs has been humbled, he will fight some guys of that caliber. If he does so, he will likely improve and be in a much better position to win a title should he get another opportunity. I remember watching his fight with Smith and being very worried about Jacobs. He was completely out on his feet in the fifth and Smith closed much stronger. That should have been the point where GB realized Jacobs was not ready for the big leagues, and needed to be developed more.

On the bright side, he has lots of time left in his career and can go back to the drawing board and make some positive changes. I honestly don't think he will ever be anything special, no matter how he is brought along from this point, but I do think he is capable of fighting at a relatively high level and getting some more title shots.