BoxRec

After watching the 2nd Louis v Schmeling bout and then reading about the physical damage done to Schmeling I feel that Louis must have had 'loaded' gloves. I know that it is almost heresy but I have seen many, many heavy punchers fight and never seen or heard about such damage been done to another fighter; (apart from Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard, where there have been suspicions that Dempsey had held a lead weight in his glove). Does anyone think that it may have been possible; given the major importance of the bout and that Jack Blackburn; (a veteran of the 'Battle Royales' and a master of the dark arts of fighting) was Louis' trainer; that something untoward happened?

Does anyone know of any other bouts where serious and unusual injury was inflicted? (Schmeling had one of his vertebrae broken).

simon fox wrote:After watching the 2nd Louis v Schmeling bout and then reading about the physical damage done to Schmeling I feel that Louis must have had 'loaded' gloves. I know that it is almost heresy but I have seen many, many heavy punchers fight and never seen or heard about such damage been done to another fighter; (apart from Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard, where there have been suspicions that Dempsey had held a lead weight in his glove). Does anyone think that it may have been possible; given the major importance of the bout and that Jack Blackburn; (a veteran of the 'Battle Royales' and a master of the dark arts of fighting) was Louis' trainer; that something untoward happened?

Does anyone know of any other bouts where serious and unusual injury was inflicted? (Schmeling had one of his vertebrae broken).

I think Schmeling would have said something.

granberry never saw a conspiracy he didn't like.

Until today.

Have you ever read or seen a boxing match over inside 3 minutes where the loser has several vertabrae cracked and shouts out in pain from a body punch? Schmeling was hospitalised for 10 days.

WTF!!

I know Tony Galento's manager made that allegation before Galento fought Louis for the title in 1939.
Its baffling as to why Schmeling even went through with the fight as much hate was generated toward him especially in the American press.
In no small part to Joe Louis's promoter,Mike Jacobs,who actually paid or had reporters to publish phony stories in the press,like finding a German SS uniform(or some kind of German officer's uniform in his manager's closet at the hotel they were training out prior to the fight.
There was a lot of stuff that happened around that fight that has been omitted from the various documentaries concerning it over the years it seems,a lot of which was unpleasent.

Is it true that the manager of Schmeling was not allowed at the fight?

Nothing much would surprise me in boxing.

yancey wrote:Is it true that the manager of Schmeling was not allowed at the fight?

Nothing much would surprise me in boxing.

Yeah think he was serving a ban of some sort, and the rest of his corner men were afraid to be at the venue. Don't think the gloves were loaded though,Louis just hit stupidly hard and landed a shot which was perhaps questionable.

simon fox wrote:After watching the 2nd Louis v Schmeling bout and then reading about the physical damage done to Schmeling I feel that Louis must have had 'loaded' gloves. I know that it is almost heresy but I have seen many, many heavy punchers fight and never seen or heard about such damage been done to another fighter; (apart from Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard, where there have been suspicions that Dempsey had held a lead weight in his glove). Does anyone think that it may have been possible; given the major importance of the bout and that Jack Blackburn; (a veteran of the 'Battle Royales' and a master of the dark arts of fighting) was Louis' trainer; that something untoward happened?

Does anyone know of any other bouts where serious and unusual injury was inflicted? (Schmeling had one of his vertebrae broken).

Jack Blackburn --- "Master of the dark arts of fighting,"

He sounds like the Emperor from Star Wars...

What amazes me is the amount of anomosity that still exists against Max Schmeling,.
You watch the recent HBO documentary AMERICA'S HERO BETRAYED.
The old guy going on how Schmeling,"screamed like a woman",I think he even said it twice to make sure u heared it.
and author Randy Roberts going on how it was a disgrace that the Atlanta Coca-Cola company gave Schmelinge a franchise to sell it in Germany after the War, but didnt give it to Joe Louis who was broke and behind in taxes at the time.
Roberts almost acts like Schmeling should have been at the Nuremberg trial and convicted.

Brutu wrote:What amazes me is the amount of anomosity that still exists against Max Schmeling,.
You watch the recent HBO documentary AMERICA'S HERO BETRAYED.
The old guy going on how Schmeling,"screamed like a woman",I think he even said it twice to make sure u heared it.
and author Randy Roberts going on how it was a disgrace that the Atlanta Coca-Cola company gave Schmelinge a franchise to sell it in Germany after the War, but didnt give it to Joe Louis who was broke and behind in taxes at the time.
Roberts almost acts like Schmeling should have been at the Nuremberg trial and convicted.

Think we'd all scream like women if we were caught with some of Louis' bombs tbf. Though yeah, the way he's portrayed almost makes it sound like he was an SS member who went around killing Jews rather than the guy that hid several of them and helped Joe out big time later in life.

I think that a lot of writers and doco makers need a bad guy
or a villain at any cost. Especially in building up a hero.

Regarding to the damage Louis inflicted, some times when
you get an over matched guy against a hard hitting talent
you can get such injuries in a short amount of time. Ive seen
it on a local level.

As for how much damage Max took, just how much of it is
legitimate and how much of it is actually real. I do not doubt
that Louis broke body in that brief onslaught, but I also would
not be suprised that some of the 'damage' reported was
specualtion or legend.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

simon fox wrote:After watching the 2nd Louis v Schmeling bout and then reading about the physical damage done to Schmeling I feel that Louis must have had 'loaded' gloves. I know that it is almost heresy but I have seen many, many heavy punchers fight and never seen or heard about such damage been done to another fighter; (apart from Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard, where there have been suspicions that Dempsey had held a lead weight in his glove). Does anyone think that it may have been possible; given the major importance of the bout and that Jack Blackburn; (a veteran of the 'Battle Royales' and a master of the dark arts of fighting) was Louis' trainer; that something untoward happened?

Does anyone know of any other bouts where serious and unusual injury was inflicted? (Schmeling had one of his vertebrae broken).

Jack Blackburn --- "Master of the dark arts of fighting,"

He sounds like the Emperor from Star Wars...

You got me there Irene I was a bit overblown; thinking of being a scriptwriter for melodramas :)

The idea that somehow Louis should have been GIVEN a Coca-Cola distributorship over Schmeling (who actually bought the rights to distribute Coca-Cola) shows how ignorant some people are. People always want to cry and complain that Louis was mistreated by the government. Ive got news for you: if you work in this country (and boxing is work) you have to pay your fornicating taxes. Joe Louis made a hell of a lot more money in the ring than Schmeling and after the war Schmeling was nearly destitute while Louis was still making a fortune and acting as part owner in the most powerful boxing promotional company in the world. It says a lot about both men that Schmeling was able to go from almost nothing to one of Germany's most successful businessmen while Louis took his fortune and squandered it and then expected a handout from the government. Nobody LIKES paying taxes but we all have to do it. The government wasnt asking any more of Louis than it would from you or I. I just dont have much sympathy for a guy who was basically a millionaire back when that actually meant something and pissed it all away and then all his friends and fans act like he was being unfairly treated.

I dont think Louis' gloves were loaded. If you watch the fight Schmeling turns his back and gets hit (by his own fault) with a hellacious kidney punch. From a guy who can hit as hard as Louis thats going to hurt like hell, furthermore if you hit someone right you can break bone and the back is a particularly sensitive area. I wouldnt be surprised if Schmeling did have a broken verterbrae but the guy above who said the injuries could have been exagerated may be right as well. A herniated disk (which could easily be caused by some of the punches Louis threw) would be debilitating/paralyzing and pain like that would make the baddest of the bad scream out for mommy.

simon fox wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

simon fox wrote:After watching the 2nd Louis v Schmeling bout and then reading about the physical damage done to Schmeling I feel that Louis must have had 'loaded' gloves. I know that it is almost heresy but I have seen many, many heavy punchers fight and never seen or heard about such damage been done to another fighter; (apart from Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard, where there have been suspicions that Dempsey had held a lead weight in his glove). Does anyone think that it may have been possible; given the major importance of the bout and that Jack Blackburn; (a veteran of the 'Battle Royales' and a master of the dark arts of fighting) was Louis' trainer; that something untoward happened?

Does anyone know of any other bouts where serious and unusual injury was inflicted? (Schmeling had one of his vertebrae broken).

Jack Blackburn --- "Master of the dark arts of fighting,"

He sounds like the Emperor from Star Wars...

You got me there Irene I was a bit overblown; thinking of being a scriptwriter for melodramas :)

Not bad

Manager not there on a dubious ban?

Cornermen afraid to be there?

Louis would have won the rematch anyway, but why do I get this feeling Max was facing a stacked deck that night in NY?

He was facing a stacked deck. In fact he should have gotten the shot at Braddock before Louis but the deck was stacked against him there too. To Louis' credit he admitted that he wouldnt truly consider himself a champ until he beat Schmeling, both because Schmeling had beaten him and he knew, like most others, that Schmeling would likely beat Braddock as well.

ähm ... the screaming woman who had knocked out louis
in the first bout? the one? sometimes critics should be left
alone with their victims for half a round in an empty room.

pretty much all boxers agree that there is hardly anything as
painful as a precise unexpected body shot.

If you watch the full film footage you can see Schmeling gives out what looks to be a short OWW!
There probably was a woman screaming at ring side, if you listen to the background on the HBO documentery
America's Hero Betrayed.
Most likely thats who the old guy heard screaming.

Aren't the gloves in the HOF right now (or was it the Smithsonian). If something were illegal back then, don't you think someone would have noticed while prepping for a museum?

simon fox wrote:AI feel that Louis must have had 'loaded' gloves.

First off dude, you have no proof whatsoever that this is anymore than speculation.
And with that alone, you shouldn't be making these kind of accusations.

simon fox wrote:Does anyone know of any other bouts where serious and unusual injury was inflicted? (Schmeling had one of his vertebrae broken).

Yeah there are other cases that I've heard of...

Didn't David Haye and Joe Calzaghe both break their hands fighting?

Didn't Ricky Hatton bust a four of Castillo's ribs wth one punch?

Didn't Rocky Marciano fracture LaStarza's ulna in several places, to the extent that it hurt LaStarza to keep his arms up.

Didn't Willard have his jaw broken, his cheekbone shattered, several missing teeth, and a few busted ribs while fighting against Dempsey?

Tyson broke Golgota's jaw.

man, do some research would you?

and in one of the worst ring injuries of all time, Didn't Chris Byrd force Vitali's rotator cuff out of socket? lol

BoxBuzz wrote:and in one of the worst ring injuries of all time, Didn't Chris Byrd force Vitali's rotator cuff out of socket? lol

"The idea that somehow Louis should have been GIVEN a Coca-Cola distributorship over Schmeling (who actually bought the rights to distribute Coca-Cola) shows how ignorant some people are. People always want to cry and complain that Louis was mistreated by the government. Ive got news for you: if you work in this country (and boxing is work) you have to pay your effing taxes. Joe Louis made a hell of a lot more money in the ring than Schmeling and after the war Schmeling was nearly destitute while Louis was still making a fortune and acting as part owner in the most powerful boxing promotional company in the world. It says a lot about both men that Schmeling was able to go from almost nothing to one of Germany's most successful businessmen while Louis took his fortune and squandered it and then expected a handout from the government. Nobody LIKES paying taxes but we all have to do it. The government wasnt asking any more of Louis than it would from you or I. I just dont have much sympathy for a guy who was basically a millionaire back when that actually meant something and pissed it all away and then all his friends and fans act like he was being unfairly treated."

klompton



klompton, you absolutely nailed it.

..i haven't read any of the posts here...just came to the end to say if joe louis had loaded gloves he would have killed schmeling..