BoxRec

Between these two past greats. A three fight trilogy.

Whitaker outbox him three out three

Sweet Pea wins 4 out of 3

Have to agree with the prior sentiment, Pea would clown him. And there aint gonna be no rematch.

an easy win for whittaker. He just had the style to do what starling did to honeyghan but much worse. Pernell was that good he could make a on his day accompished and multi talented guy like honeyghan look like a third rater

Why not Muhammad Ali vs Chris Arreola

mugabi wrote:an easy win for whittaker. He just had the style to do what starling did to honeyghan but much worse. Pernell was that good he could make a on his day accompished and multi talented guy like honeyghan look like a third rater

To be fair to the RaggaMuffin, he was past his prime when he lost to Starling.
I would like to know, by the 2 people who voted for Lloyd , is how they see him winning 2 out of 3.

Grimm wrote:Why not Muhammad Ali vs Chris Arreola

I don't think it's quite as much of a mismatch as that.

I made this thread because I was interested into seeing how other posters viewed this fight.

I too went for Whitaker... Maybe all 3 wins, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as some make it out to be.

Whitaker fairly easily. Honeyghan simply wasn't at the same level

Pernell would've stopped Honeyghan earlier than Marlon Starling. Pernell v Don Curry would have been an amazing match up over 6, 8, 10, 12 or 15.

Crease wrote:I made this thread because I was interested into seeing how other posters viewed this fight.

I too went for Whitaker... Maybe all 3 wins, but I don't think it's as clear-pudendum as some make it out to be.

Typo much?

No way does Honeyghan get stopped. Considering size and ability this would be a hard fight for Whittaker.

Ezzard wrote:No way does Honeyghan get stopped. Considering size and ability this would be a hard fight for Whittaker.

Hard fight for Whitaker? Blasphemy! There's no such thing as a hard fight for Whitaker, who I heard would train at the highest land mass with trees in a lightning storm wearing tin foil and daring God to shoot lightning bolts at him so he could dodge them.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

Ezzard wrote:No way does Honeyghan get stopped. Considering size and ability this would be a hard fight for Whittaker.

Hard fight for Whitaker? Blasphemy! There's no such thing as a hard fight for Whitaker, who I heard would train at the highest land mass with trees in a lightning storm wearing tin foil and daring God to shoot lightning bolts at him so he could dodge them.

Yes but Lloyd ran in the rain post-Chernobyl so he could become nuclear powered!

Ezzard wrote:Yes but Lloyd ran in the rain post-Chernobyl so he could become nuclear powered!

Grimm wrote:


Why not Muhammad Ali vs Chris Arreola

That remark shows a huge disrespect to Lloyd who was a very talented determined fighter who at his short explosive peak showed he could box AND punch at a high level. He beat 6 world champions make of that what you will.

He was a huge oxymoron. On the one hand when he actually went into training camp for a fight he was usually very dedicated

But between fights he lived in clubs, did drugs , drank and was a notorious womaniser. That burnt him out and he suffered his first defeat to Vaca. After that he was never the same it was like he lost his aura within himself of invincibility. Also as often happened in England at the time once a fighter became succesful his managers and promoters tried to get greedy .

Ive always wondered how good Lloyd could have been if he had had decided to base himself in the USA after the Curry wins or no later than the Hatcher win. At that stage Lloyd didnt really have trainers he trained himself. If he had got a good american trainer at that stage like oh my good ness we would now be talking of Lloyd in even higher terms. I have no doubts a peak Honeyghan would have beaten Starling and Breland.

mugabi wrote:

Grimm wrote:


Why not Muhammad Ali vs Chris Arreola

That remark shows a huge disrespect to Lloyd who was a very talented determined fighter who at his short explosive peak showed he could box AND punch at a high level. He beat 6 world champions make of that what you will.

He was a huge oxymoron. On the one hand when he actually went into training camp for a fight he was usually very dedicated

But between fights he lived in clubs, did drugs , drank and was a notorious womaniser. That burnt him out and he suffered his first defeat to Vaca. After that he was never the same it was like he lost his aura within himself of invincibility. Also as often happened in England at the time once a fighter became succesful his managers and promoters tried to get greedy .

Ive always wondered how good Lloyd could have been if he had had decided to base himself in the USA after the Curry wins or no later than the Hatcher win. At that stage Lloyd didnt really have trainers he trained himself. If he had got a good american trainer at that stage like oh my good ness we would now be talking of Lloyd in even higher terms. I have no doubts a peak Honeyghan would have beaten Starling and Breland.

I do agree with the sentiment here.

Honeyghan was a top notch fighter for a short time. Like many British champs holding on to the title was harder than winning it.

At his best Honeyghan was a hard to anticipate swarmer with a great punch and a lot of skill. He was also a hard man who would do what he had to in order to win a fight.

Fans coming to Lloyd and seeing the defeat to Breland are not getting the full picture. At that point he seemed devoid of all punch resistance. Against Starling he didn’t believe his hands would stand up to a full 15 rounds and went for broke early against a fine counter puncher. Had he been fully operational and Honeyghan would have had a great chance of simply out-working the talented but lazy Starling.

Whittaker was a great lightweight and I’m not sure that at 147 he had what was needed to keep Honeyghan at bay. I’d still back Pernell because he had so much ability but Lloyd was so hard to anticipate that the likes of Whittaker and Mayweather who use their well honed anticipation skills would find him a difficult man to beat.

Whittaker was a smaller man, an exceptional smaller man, but

I’m a Brit and Honeyghan and McGuigan were my heroes as a kid so I’m a card carrying member of the club, but even so too many people here are brushing him off way too quickly.

Be interesting if Bennie comes in here because he could probably give a fair appraisal of Honeyghan at his best.

It isn't so much about keeping Lloyd at bay as it is rendering whatever he tries ineffective. Honeygahn wasn't any stronger than Vazquez. That is an underrated win for Pernell, he totally dominated a guy that ran over Winky.

Lloyd was real solid, I'd love to see him against Paul Williams, Margarito, Fusari, Palomino etc.. He just would be out of his element here.

I think my point is that at 147 the gap between the two fighters is nowhere near as big as is being put forward in this thread. Whittaker is a legend, and rightly so, but I’m not convinced he was a great welterweight.

Even so, this is not really about Whittaker who has nothing to prove. It’s more about how Honeyghan was a world class welterweight who for a couple of years had a big impact on the division. One thing’s for sure he wouldn’t have been following Pea around the ring like the great, but smaller (and probably depressed at the time), Nelson did.

If this fight did happen it would have been one of Whittaker’s closer and more entertaining bouts.

During the Curry fight Gil Clancy remarked "look how quick Honeyghan is".......we have to remember this quickness, this Benitez like swarming effectiveness where he could get in and out so quickly was being carried out against a guy nicknamed "the cobra" due to his razor sharp reflexes in Curry.

Sure Curry wasnt quite himself that night but Lloyd never gave him a chance.

Ezzard, you made a great point it was no coincidence many British fighters of the 1980's found it hard to hold onto a world title. It simply wasnt that they were now swimming with the big fish......in the vast majority of cases disputes with managers and promoters who in the UK at that time were one and the same thing were to blame allied with the poor management this usually entailed.

Take McGuigan and Eastwood. Eastwood was an inept promoter, manager and trainer!!! It was his idea for a pale skinned irishman to fight a mexican in the midday vegas sun outdoors in June!!...with no ice in the corner!!!

mugabi wrote:
Ezzard, you made a great point it was no coincidence many British fighters of the 1980's found it hard to hold onto a world title. It simply wasnt that they were now swimming with the big fish......in the vast majority of cases disputes with managers and promoters who in the UK at that time were one and the same thing were to blame allied with the poor management this usually entailed.

i don't think the managerial angle really covers it

IMO in the old days the classic path of winning british, commonwealth and european before fighting for a world trinket, meant the likes of McGuigan had had a fair few tough-ish fights thus their 'peak' was shorter as they had been (relatively) more burned out when they got to world level

managerial disputes don't really account for the very sudden and steep falls from peak of the likes of McGuigan, Stracey, Honeygan, IMO.

Ezzard wrote:I think my point is that at 147 the gap between the two fighters is nowhere near as big as is being put forward in this thread. Whittaker is a legend, and rightly so, but I’m not convinced he was a great welterweight.

Even so, this is not really about Whittaker who has nothing to prove. It’s more about how Honeyghan was a world class welterweight who for a couple of years had a big impact on the division. One thing’s for sure he wouldn’t have been following Pea around the ring like the great, but smaller (and probably depressed at the time), Nelson did.

If this fight did happen it would have been one of Whittaker’s closer and more entertaining bouts.

I don't see it being close, the style match up favors Whitaker big time. Lloyd could score a flash KD or something, but I couldn't see him winning more than 2 or 3 rounds tops.

As I said, I liked Lloyd and he would pose a problem for many fighters. I just don't think Whitaker would be one of them.